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An Inconvenient Lawsuit: Teenagers Take Global Warming to the Courts
The Atlantic ^ | May 9, 2012 | Katherine Ellison

Posted on 05/12/2012 11:23:30 AM PDT by Twotone

Alec Loorz turns 18 at the end of this month. While finishing high school and playing Ultimate Frisbee on weekends, he's also suing the federal government in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

The Ventura, California, teen and four other juvenile plaintiffs want government officials to do more to prevent the risks of climate change -- the dangerous storms, heat waves, rising sea levels, and food-supply disruptions that scientists warn will threaten their generation absent a major turnabout in global energy policy. Specifically, the students are demanding that the U.S. government start reducing national emissions of carbon dioxide by at least six percent per year beginning in 2013.

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: agw; globalwarming; lawfare
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To: allmost
A bottle of soda water stuffed with CO2 has much more gas than the ocean has dissolved in it. I mainly linked to WattsUpWithThat which is the world's largest site for disputing man made global warming. They post articles on everything from refuting man made CO2 to refuting the greenhouse effect itself to refuting that the increase in CO2 causes increases in temperature.

Mainly though they refute the idea that small increases in average temperature that come from increases in CO2 are in any way harmful. Mostly the articles there show that warming is beneficial and point out that occurrences of drought and other alleged effects of global warming are natural phenomena. That's where I stand, I acknowledge the greenhouse effect and the manmade increase in CO2 but believe it is net beneficial to plants, animals and mankind.

51 posted on 05/12/2012 5:27:27 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: palmer

Tell me about our Sun.


52 posted on 05/12/2012 5:33:23 PM PDT by allmost
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To: palmer

I stipulated two bottles. One hot, one cold. Clearly.


53 posted on 05/12/2012 5:36:01 PM PDT by allmost
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To: lurk
‘Alec Loorz turns 18 at the end of this month.

’ And knows all things.

Don't all 18-year-olds think they know all there is to know? Just ask them - Actually, you don't need to ask them; they'll tell you anyway. I think it's part of the job description.

As I told my son at that point: "It's really easy to think you have all the answers. You don't even know what half the questions are yet."

54 posted on 05/12/2012 5:54:07 PM PDT by Bob
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To: Twotone

It’s California. What do you expect?

Probably graduates of Commie Martyrs High School.


55 posted on 05/12/2012 5:59:30 PM PDT by Rocky (REPEAL IT!)
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To: allmost

The ocean didn’t go from cold to hot, it rose 2 degrees C which is about a 1% rise in temperature. We expect an equally small rise in outgassing of CO2.


56 posted on 05/12/2012 6:34:21 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: palmer

It has been a pleasure to disagree with you. You have maintained civility beyond mine.


57 posted on 05/12/2012 6:40:08 PM PDT by allmost
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To: palmer

You have no idea what you are talking about, do you.


58 posted on 05/12/2012 6:42:56 PM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost
The sun increased in total irradiance up to the 80's and has fluctuated a bit down since then. The oceans delay solar warming so the warmer sun in the 80's continued to warm the atmosphere in the 90's. Now in the 2000's that warming has run out (basically temperatures are flat). Recently the sun went into a funk, so the alarmists say the atmosphere should have cooled in response. Not true! The drop will again be delayed by thermal inertia from the oceans. We will see only see that cooling in the next decade or so.

Another oversimplification is looking at total solar irradiance and not the other effects of an inactive sun. For example the lack of sunspots and solar wind may allow more galactic cosmic rays to hit the earth which in turn causes more clouds which may cause cooling over the long run (that science is not settled). Another example is the lack of solar ultraviolet may allow extra blocking patterns. That certainly changes our weather (more storminess in winter for example). Again the jury is out whether that also causes global cooling.

In short the sun has a lot of effects on weather and therefore on climate which are generally not considered or oversimplified by the scientists in charge of the models. For that and other reasons I do not believe models that predict "catastrophic" warming.

59 posted on 05/12/2012 6:43:55 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: allmost

My knowledge of greenhouse effect and man’s creation of CO2 is consistent with all the facts that I know about. For example the CO2 we create is fairly accurately estimated by economic statistics related to oil production and consumption. It is possible any of my underlying facts could be wrong. Also there is no certainty in science, it can all change. But I can say that, apart from some small errors which I noted, what I said in this thread is consistent with all of the facts that I am aware of.


60 posted on 05/12/2012 6:50:37 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: palmer

I could argue with you all night. You mean well it seems.


61 posted on 05/12/2012 6:56:19 PM PDT by allmost
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To: allmost
Thanks. I appreciate all viewpoints like yours because like I said science can be wrong and my understanding of science can be wrong. I'm not trying to disprove anyone else's ideas as much as giving the best explanation that I can. But there is undoubtedly a huge amount of influence (especially financial) from leftist control freaks like Soros through his funding of climate advocacy groups. That should make anyone suspect of anything I or anyone else says, especially "established science" or "consensus" or similar suggestions when we have documented evidence that the scientific peer review system has been corrupted (climategate).

Hence I should not be given a pass on threads like this if something I said might be wrong in any way.

62 posted on 05/12/2012 7:59:15 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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63 posted on 05/12/2012 8:14:45 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah c<meth. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
thxs, for the ping...
and the bio of this future
Darwin Award Winner.

64 posted on 05/12/2012 9:41:10 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA. DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; different flie$". :^)
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To: palmer
Truly refreshing, your attitude, I must apologize for mine. This AGW crap hits close to home sometimes.
The lack of solar acknowledgment is absolutely infuriating. Your blind links cannot begin to measure the last four and a half billion years of this massive fusion.
Any two carbonated drinks at different temperatures can clearly show that CO2 is a lagging indicator of heat collection. Not a cause. You can refer me to links until we are both blind, I am saying here look at reality.
65 posted on 05/13/2012 1:25:27 AM PDT by allmost
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To: Twotone
This Children's Crusade will probably end as the ones on the Middle ages did, but at least the Federal Government will probably treat them better than the Saracens did
66 posted on 05/13/2012 11:18:30 AM PDT by jmcenanly ("The more corrupt the state, the more laws." Tacitus, Publius Cornelius)
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