Atlantis: The Evidence [ Thera, Crete, the usual modern myths ]

Watchumentary ^ | January 1st, 2011 | BBC, Timewatch, Natalie Maynes, Bettany Hughes

[SunkenCiv]

In this Timewatch special, historian Bettany Hughes unravels one of the most intriguing mysteries of all time.

She presents a series of geological, archaeological and historical clues to show that the legend of Atlantis was inspired by a real historical event -- the greatest natural disaster of the ancient world.

She is tracing the origins of the Atlantis myth and presenting evidence that the Thera eruption inspired Plato's account of the mystical land.

2,400 years ago Greek philosopher Plato wrote of an ancient island civilization of unparalleled wealth and splendor, which was struck by earthquakes and floods and was swallowed up by the sea in one grievous day and night.

"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island." (Plato, as translated by Benjamin Jowett).

[SunkenCiv]

Also found in entire on YouTube:

Historian Bettany Hughes examines The Minoan eruption of Thera, which was a major catastrophic volcanic eruption estimated to have occurred in the mid-second millennium BC. The eruption was one of the largest volcanic events on Earth in recorded history. The eruption devastated the island of Thera (also called Santorini), including the Minoan settlement at Akrotiri, as well as communities and agricultural areas on nearby islands and on the coast of Crete. The eruption seems to have inspired certain Greek myths and may have also caused turmoil in Egypt. Additionally, it has been speculated that the Minoan eruption and the destruction of the city at Akrotiri provided the basis for or otherwise inspired Plato's story of Atlantis.

[SunkenCiv]

Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist
	Posted by Red Badger On News/Activism 08/06/2004 3:41:50 PM EDT · 80 replies · 2,303+ views REUTERS | 8/6/2004 | Kevin Smith DUBLIN (Reuters) - Atlantis, the legendary island nation over whose existence controversy has raged for thousands of years, was actually Ireland, according to a new theory by a Swedish scientist. Atlantis, the Greek philosopher Plato wrote in 360 BC, was an island in the Atlantic Ocean where an advanced civilization developed some 11,500 years ago until it was hit by a cataclysmic natural disaster and sank beneath the waves. Geographer Ulf Erlingsson, whose book explaining his theory will be published next month, says the measurements, geography, and landscape of Atlantis as described by Plato match Ireland almost exactly. "I am...

[SunkenCiv]

Alas, there is none.

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[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
I watched this on YouTube earlier today. Besides being tediously derivative, Hughes' pattern of using a small handful of over-the-top adjectives ("incredible!" for one example) is difficult to miss in this mess. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[GeronL]

They need more clothes apparently

[muawiyah]

What everybody needs to do is keep their eye on the description of the city.

There's one near Lake Titicaca in Chile and another Doñana National Park in Spain (and there are references to another one just like it on the Portuguese coast somewhere).

That's the only way you get a link up to the Egyptian interest in these places ~ cocaine inside the Mummies!

[blam]

"That's the only way you get a link up to the Egyptian interest in these places ~ cocaine inside the Mummies! "

I always considered that King Solomon's miners in Peru could have brought back the cocaine and nicotine and sold it to the Egyptians.

[blam]

Santorini Eruption Much larger Than Originally Believed

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks blam.

• New Ice-Core Evidence Challenges the 1620s age for the Santorini (Minoan) Eruption

[SunkenCiv]

That pic is from an Egyptian wall painting. It is used in the documentary, but seems an odd choice to whomever, uh, uploaded it to YT.

[GeronL]

Yes, why is that the image they pulled from the video?

Looks like a place they’d be getting lapdances. lol.

Is the nearly naked ladies the servants?

[SunkenCiv]

Egypt’s hot a good part of the year, and some of the linen clothing the Egyptians made was so sheer it barely shows up in these paintings.

[GeronL]

I understand that for a lot of their history most children wore nothing until puberty started. Maybe the servant is barely into puberty?

[SunkenCiv]

There’s nothing above the waves resembling Plato’s description of Poseidonia; either it’s under the Atlantic (which is exactly what he said; the shoal mud he describes remained in his own time according to his own report, a detail that Bettany Hughes ignores of course. As the Aegean was navigable in Plato’s time, and during the Trojan War, the pumice generated by the imaginary 2nd millennium BC supereruption has nothing to do with the description of shoal mud) and the island (larger than Libya and Asia combined, another detail that is not true of Santorini) was submerged suddenly (another detail that isn’t true of tiny Santorini) and may be entirely imaginary anyway. Perhaps some details were borrowed from diverse old folklore, I mean, doesn’t the Black Sea flood make sense as a source of some of that?.

[SunkenCiv]

Well actually, I haven’t seen this much concern about nudity in art in a long time, and so hadn’t given it much thought. The bottom line is, they weren’t us.

[fieldmarshaldj]

3rd from the right is not guilty.

[GeronL]

I was thinking about Egyptians when I wrote that, anyway, what does ancient Egypt have to do with Greece anyways?

[GeronL]

I think I have to agree. sadly. lol

[fieldmarshaldj]

If the one on the far left hadn’t received a de facto Brazilian via a chipped mural, she’d be the hottest. ;-D

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1180724/posts?page=6#6

[snip] Akroteri, a Minoan city on the south part of Thera, is being excavated. About 3-6 feet (1-2 m) of ash fell on the city which had a population of about 30,000. The residents appear to have been successfully evacuated prior to the eruption. No bodies have been found in the ash like those at Vesuvius. Archeologists also reported that movable objects had been taken from the city... The Kameni Islands formed after the caldera. Eleven eruptions since 197 B.C. have made the two islands. [/snip]

[Boogieman]

I’ve always thought, considering the “Libya and Asia combined” tidbit, that if Atlantis had any basis in reality, it was from stories about early travels to the Americas.

[GeronL]

she would be the sentimental favorite I guess. Like the “girl next door”.

[SunkenCiv]

At some point in the docu. Hughes compares the wall paintings found on Thera and those of Egypt. Interestingly enough, the Minoan artists were apparently also employed by at least one Egyptian pharaoh.

Did Unemployed Minoan Artists Land Jobs in Ancient Egypt?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2422780/posts

Old Egypt investigator identifies to mysterious Hyksos kings [sic]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1605198/posts?page=26#26

A Storm in Egypt during the Reign of Ahmose [The Tempest Stele]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2375891/posts

Akrotiri, Santorini: the Minoan Pompeii - part 1 [of 6]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2376007/posts

[SunkenCiv]

The other clincher in Plato is that one could leave the western side of Atlantis and get to another landmass that could truly be called a continent — the Americas.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Alas, there never was a girl next door to me... well, one about maybe a dozen or so doors down, up a street, to the right, and up another to the left... but she was a blonde, and she moved when she was 6. Not like those hot ancient Egyptian girls.

[Hootowl]

One of Plato’s signposts was that Atlantis was beyond the Pillars of Hercules, usually taken to mean the straits of Gibraltar. However (and I’m reaching way back in memory on this one to a book I read 30 or so years ago), there is a set of islands nearby to Greece which was also known as the Pillars of Hercules, which could fullfil Plato’s requirements without having to venture from the Mediterranean Sea. Mayhap I’ll rummage around the internet tonight and see if I can find a reference to that.

[GeronL]

OK. So there was some traffic between them, they must have been at least a little familiar with each other.

[muawiyah]

The Black Sea Flood has a couple of meaningful koinkydinks ~

(1) The Sumerians seem to have recorded an object which shared the same barycenter with Earth in the same orbit ~ it came close to Earth then jumped to a similar orbit with Venus, and someday it'll jump back. THis is reflected in the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh and his ginormous playmate Inkydoo. The data dates from BEFORE writing was invented and is in special symbolic notation.

(2)The escarpment keeping the Mediterranean out of the Black Lake basin broke in the same period of time.

Now, a question, how close did this asteroid have to get to Earth to appear to be nearly the same size as the Moon? Obviously it had to be pretty close. And, pretty big. The guy at http://www.barry.warmkessel.com/4related.html tells us of an expert in astrophysical phenomenon who says it was 3 miles wide ~ the body now crossing Venus' orbit is about 200 yards wide ~ however, 7,000 years ago if it passed earth as a large bolid just at the edge of the atmosphere it would have caused a stir ~ maybe a tsunami in the Eastern Mediterranean.

[SunkenCiv]

The Engines of Our Ingenuity by John H. Lienhard

[SunkenCiv]

Santorini Eruption in 1950.

[redangus]

Probably the biggest issue never addressed by the Santorini contingent is you have to reduce Plato’s time and size numbers by a factor of 10 to make the eruption work. I’m not willing to do that though many Greek archeologists are. I guess they could all get jobs with Barry’s economic team.

[SunkenCiv]

Yup, there’s an imaginary Pillars of Hercules dreamed up by an author in the 1960s, who, not surprisingly, was trying to peddle the Thera-was-Atlantis idea. :’) THE Pillars of Hercules were at Gibraltar, then as now. Trying to relocate Plato’s Atlantis (his is the only surviving ancient source for the story) by reducing it in size by orders of magnitude and reducing it in age by about one order of magnitude, while arbitrarily picking a location still above water really makes no sense at all, but people continue to do it. :’)

[SunkenCiv]

Apparently the Minoans were referred to as the Keftiu; Keftiu was the Egyptian version of Caphtor, which refers to Cyprus (not Crete, as is usually claimed; Crete was the Tarshish or Tharshish of the Bible), a big source of copper (or perhaps a transship point) which was shipped in the form of “oxhides”, ingots with two limb-like handles on each end.

After the Mycenaeans took over in most of the Aegean, and expanded settlement in Anatolia, they similarly took over in Cyprus, and spread westward into Sicily. The Etruscans (among others) had already colonized in Italy and other points west in the Med, but carried along their cultural traces, as well as DNA, from the Aegean. The Ionian Greeks were most closely associated with the Etruscans in trade.

[SunkenCiv]

/bingo

It’s also amazing how often the Theran stuff is repeated as if it were an original idea.

[SunkenCiv]

"Even when, during the respective Thera Conferences, individual scientists had pointed out that the magnitude and significance of the Thera eruption must be estimated as less than previously thought, the conferences acted to strengthen the original hypothesis. The individual experts believed that the arguments advanced by their colleagues were sound, and that the facts of a natural catastrophe were not in doubt... All three factors reflect a fantasy world rather than cool detachment, which is why it so difficult to refute the theory with rational arguments." -- Eberhard Zangger, "The Future of the Past: Archaeology in the 21st Century", pp 49-50.

[Beowulf9]

[muleskinner]

Akallabêth (In the Elvish tongue of Quenya, "Atalantë" means "Downfallen")is the story of the destruction of the Kingdom of Númenor.

The complete true story of what is now called Atlantis is on YouTube. The Great Deceiver was instrumental in it's destruction.

[Secret Agent Man]

Actually they found it off Spain recently.

[SunkenCiv]

The submerged area known as Spartel island would fit as the eastern reaches of Plato's Atlantis. OTOH, that non-submerged area in southern Spain speculated about a few years ago would not. Wow, this is a longer keyword listing than I'd anticipated:

• Atlantis: The Evidence [ Thera, Crete, the usual modern myths ]
• Earliest Directly-Dated Human Skull-Cups [ 14,700 BP ]
• Pavlopetri: A window on to Bronze Age suburban life (impressive CGI images)
• Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin goes in search for Russia's Atlantis
• Lost City of Atlantis found - again - this time in Guatemala
• Lost city of Atlantis, swamped by tsunami, may be found
• Has a University of Hartford Professor Found the Lost City of Atlantis?[Spain]
• Google Ocean: Has Atlantis been found off Africa?
• Scientists find sunken islands in the Caribbean (Atlantis?)
• 'Fried Egg' may be impact crater
• Atlantis Discovered? Archaeologists Reveal Images of Caribbean Civilization (video report)
• Previously undiscovered ancient city found on Caribbean sea floor
• Real Tsunami May Have Inspired Legend of Atlantis
• UNDERWORLD - Graham Hancock
• Exploration of the Bimini Underwater Rectangles Yields Stunning Finds (Art Bell history)
• Discovered: A sunken island, an Indian Ocean Atlantis?
• Google Explains Watery Mystery of 'Atlantis'
• Is this Atlantis?
• Thera eruption in 1613 BC
• Lost City pumps life-essential chemicals at rates unseen at typical black smokers
• Underwater City Could Be Revealed (UK)
• 'Asian Atlantis' discovered[Japan]
• Greece Is The Word For Volcanoes (Thera)
• The wave that destroyed Atlantis [Destroyed by a giant tsunami?]
• Earth's Crust Missing In Mid-Atlantic
• Santorini Eruption Much larger Than Originally Believed
• Divers Begin Search For Underwater 'Atlantis' (China)
• Bosnian Pyramids: Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Atlantis
• The Bosnia-Atlantis Connection
• Salvaging sunken treasure takes precedence over human life in Cuba
• Rocks add weight to Atlantis debate
• Seafloor survey buoys Atlantis claim: Earthquake debris shores up evidence for lost city
• Update on the Underwater City off the Coast of Cuba.
• Scientists Interrupt Search for the “Mayan Atlantis" in the Caribbean.
• Recent News! They discover proof that Atlantis did not submerge complete but only one part...
• Archaeologist Roots Out Historical Hooey
• Spanish investigators have discovered Atlantis's archaeological evidences...
• German Physicist Disputes Atlantis Discovery Claim By American
• American Claims Discovery of Atlantis/Reports Point to Proof of Global Warming (sci-news)
• Lost Atlantis 'found near Cyprus'
• Atlantis Hunt Reveals Structures In Sea Off Cyprus
• Where Was Atlantis? Sundaland Fits The Bill, Surely!
• Ireland is the Lost Island of Atlantis.
• Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist
• Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist
• Archaeologists to seek Kyrgyz Atlantis
• New Ice-Core Evidence Challenges the 1620s age for the Santorini (Minoan) Eruption
• Archaeoloogists To Seek Kyrgyz Atlantis
• The Oldest Americans May Prove Even Older
• Satellite Images 'Show Atlantis'
• The Holy Grail Of Archaeology (Another Search For Atlantis)
• Northern sea baffles archaeologists
• Scientists Discover Lost World (8,000 Years Old)
• The Flim Flam Artist(Charles Berlitz)
• Stone Age Sites Found Under North Sea (8,000BC)
• Submerged City May Be Older Than Mesopotamia
• Will We Ever Find Atlantis?
• Plato Treasure Map Leads Atlantis Hunter to Cyprus
• The Atlantis between Spain and Morocco. The Expedition Revealing discoveries.
• Explorers on the trail of Lost City of Atlantis
• Researcher says he's found sunken site of Atlantis
• The Search For Atlantis 'Ends At Ayia Napa' (Cyprus)
• In Cuban Depths, Atlantis or Anomaly?Images of Massive Stones!
• NASA digital images discover ancient "Ramayana" bridge between India, Lanka
• Malta and Bimini (The Learning Channel)
• In the Footsteps of Heyerdahl
• Decoding DISCOVERY from the much-elusive Indus Valley script!
• Vostok: The Lake of Shadows
• New Finds Worldwide Support Flood Myths
• U.S. Denies Spectacular Ruins in Antarctica Captured on Video
• Probe Into Cuba's Possible *Sunken City* Advances
• Search For "Lost" Atlantis Centers On Strait Of Gibraltar
• Evidence of ancient city found in depths off Cuba (best article yet)
• Explorers View 'Lost City' Ruins Under Caribbean
• Update on Underwater Megalithic

[SunkenCiv]

Whoops, four more:

• Keyword: atlantis
• Submerged prehistory off Scotland: a development-led perspective
• The moment Britain became an island
• Exploration of underwater forest [Loch Tay]
• A United Kingdom? Maybe

[SunkenCiv]

I also enjoyed Tolkien.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Beowulf9.

[stpio]

“I also enjoyed Tolkien.”

~ ~ ~

My favorite Tolkien quote. The Holy Eucharist is true. Remember for the time ahead.

The inspiration for the great fantasy novels of J.R.R. Tolkien cannot be separated from his profoundly Catholic approach to life:

“The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” he wrote, “unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion”, to cults or practices, in the Imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism” (Letter 142).

In fact, two of the great loves in the hidden world of Tolkien’s imagination were the Eucharist and Our Lady, - upon which all my own small perception of beauty both in

majesty and simplicity is founded”. By way of encouraging his son, he once wrote:

“Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament ... There you will find romance, glory, honor, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves upon earth ... which every man’s heart desires” (p. 53).

[SunkenCiv]

[stpio]

Thanks SunkenCiv~!

I’ve never seen this pic, ah, the rosaries. I’ve only read
a little about Tolkien’s life, his life was not easy.

[SunkenCiv]

There was Motsognir the mightiest made
Of all the dwarfs, and Durin next;
Many a likeness of men they made,
The dwarfs in the earth, as Durin said.

Nyi and Nithi, Northri and Suthri,
Austri and Vestri, Althjof, Dvalin,
Nar and Nain, Niping, Dain,
Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori,
An and Onar, Ai, Mjothvitnir.

Vigg and Gandalf) Vindalf, Thrain,
Thekk and Thorin, Thror, Vit and Lit,
Nyr and Nyrath,-- now have I told--
Regin and Rathsvith-- the list aright.

Fili, Kili, Fundin, Nali,
Heptifili, Hannar, Sviur,
Frar, Hornbori, Fræg and Loni,
Aurvang, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.

The race of the dwarfs in Dvalin's throng
Down to Lofar the list must I tell;
The rocks they left, and through wet lands
They sought a home in the fields of sand.

There were Draupnir and Dolgthrasir,
Hor, Haugspori, Hlevang, Gloin,
Dori, Ori, Duf, Andvari,
Skirfir, Virfir, Skafith, Ai.
Alf and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi,
Fjalar and Frosti, Fith and Ginnar;
So for all time shall the tale be known,
The list of all the forbears of Lofar.

-- The Poetic Edda: Voluspo, the Wise-Woman's Prophecy

[wardaddy]

couldn't resist

[SunkenCiv]

The spoken intro was always the best part of that “song”.

[wardaddy]

it’s like a curse i swear

for weeks now since watching Rock hall of fame (farce that it is..rap) and they inducted Donovan..who actually does merit it

i have been stuck on his electric stuff

he wrote some cool stuff...gotta be over 50 to know it though

except for Goodfellas when Billy Batts gets clipped...kids would know that

gotta go listen to Hurdy Gurdy Man one more time..lol

[dixiechick2000]

I love late 60s/early 70s music. I have two radio stations tuned to classic rock, not to mention those I have in my iphone and ipad.

Donovan...way down below the ocean. Love it!

My absolute fav is Mississippi Queen.

My fav for dancing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3U7zR18M_s

The all time best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeNbuHOVDHk&feature=related