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Microsoft's big bet: Windows 8's 'too many cooks' problem
ZDNet ^ | 5/22/12 | Zack Whittaker

Posted on 05/22/2012 8:18:52 AM PDT by illiac

Summary: Windows 8 has already had too many hands in the mix and spoons in the pot. Microsoft wanted different and its staff all thought “different”. Instead of reaching compromise, Microsoft put everything in to please everyone — but will likely please very few.

Microsoft has only a few months before it releases Windows 8, probably in or around October in time for Christmas holiday sales.

The company knows full well how risky the new design, the user interface, and the decisions it has made will be controversial. In a recent blog post, Windows president Steven Sinofsky opened by explaining the “context” in which Windows 8 will fall in to.

Microsoft wanted Windows 8 to be different and its developers and staff all thought about what “different” could mean. Instead of reaching compromise and a general consensus, Microsoft seemed to put everything in to please everyone — but combined, the changes will likely please very few.

(Excerpt) Read more at zdnet.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Computers/Internet
KEYWORDS: chat; computers; windows8
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Thus far, a lot of negative press.....
1 posted on 05/22/2012 8:19:05 AM PDT by illiac
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To: illiac

I tried it on a desktop and a laptop ,it’s just a headache


2 posted on 05/22/2012 8:28:20 AM PDT by molson209
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To: illiac

No thanks; I’ll stay with Win-7 Pro for the foreseeable future. It’s stable, it works and Win-8 sucks pondwater, in its current configurational mess, as far as I can see.


3 posted on 05/22/2012 8:32:06 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: illiac

What is MS up to with their skip a generation bad OSs? It’s almost like they plan bad ones like Windows ME and Vista. Looks like waiting for Win 9 would be the best bet and in the future skip every other new one.


4 posted on 05/22/2012 8:36:28 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: illiac

I’m a sysadmin for a small company.

Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Microsoft changing the interface purely for change’s sake.

Office 2007 was a disaster. Hours of confusion and retraining because MS decided to move everything around for no good reason. Years of user familiarity with those programs suddenly of little value.

Now they want to radically change the OS? Why?

I don’t want to be impressed or wow’ed by the OS. I just want it to provide a reliable platform to run our apps.

For most business, computers aren’t cute little toys we use for entertainment. They’re valuable tools we rely on to conduct our business. From the looks of Win8, I can’t see a reason to recommend moving to this platform. The user retraining and lost productivity will cost far more than the upgrade cost. And what’s the benefit, other than eventually being forced by MS to upgrade?

We’ve looked at Linux on the desktop in the past, but never pursued it because changing the user environment that radically wasn’t worth the cost. Windows 8 seems to make Linux much more attractive.


5 posted on 05/22/2012 8:37:27 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: illiac

I downloaded and installed the Win 8 Consumer Preview. So far, I’m not impressed - the “Metro” Apps screen is as ugly as sin (red orange and green squares on a purple background)
And navigating around the environment will give you fits.
Microsoft wanted a “Smartphone” look and feel to the deskotp experience. Sorry, but I’m not sold on it. If they release it in its current iteration, I believe it will be a disaster.


6 posted on 05/22/2012 8:37:44 AM PDT by mkleesma (`Call to me, and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.')
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To: illiac

I am still working on converting to Windows 7.

We had to test over 16,000 applications and get them working and packaged on Windows 7, and some of them have caused a lot of trouble. Users continue to come up with new problems every day.


7 posted on 05/22/2012 8:38:52 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: illiac

Sounds like it may be a Vista Redux.

I finally bought a Win7 laptop and desktop in late 2011 for home use. I lost a few programs due to incompatibility and lost the use of a laser printer because neither MS nor the mfg updated the drivers. Otherwise, Win7 is okay, with some irritating and aggravating features. I managed to install some old XP stuff and finagled them into working under Win7. The only real advantages I have found with Win7 are the easy networking between the laptop and desktop and the extended memory capability.

I have no intention of trying Win8 and hope Win7 works for a long, long time.


8 posted on 05/22/2012 8:38:52 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: illiac

I loathe, dispise, and spit upon Microsoft - having suffered from their junk since they first spawned their ill-conceived junk on the unsuspecting public.

However, I (have to) use Windows 7 at work, and it’s actually not bad.

I’ll never knowingly purchase their stuff for my home, though. It’s Apple for the wife and I.


9 posted on 05/22/2012 8:40:12 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: illiac
I'm a professional developer and taught university-levvel programming for several decades. I downloaded Visual Studio's latest Beta which also brought Windows 8 along for the ride. I hated it so much, I wanted to remove it...only to find that there was no way to remove it other than reinstalling Windows 7. I was in FL at the time, with my master OS disks in IN...not good. Long story short: Windows 8 looks like a bad attempt to be an iPad when most users screens aren't touch sensitive. Usually I'm pretty good at adopting new technology, but W8 got in the way so badly and wasted so much time, I wasn't willing to even attempt to learn it. It really does look like a third grader did the user interface. I really think Microsoft should rethink things before they unleash W8 on the world.
10 posted on 05/22/2012 8:40:23 AM PDT by econjack
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To: illiac

If my experience with Windows is any indication, it is this — DON’T BUY THE NEXT VERSION OF WINDOWS UNTIL A YEAR AFTER ALL REVIEWS ARE IN.

Luckily, I bypassed Windows 95 and Windows Vista and waited a year after Windows 7 came out before buying it.

This will be the case for the OS that tries to be everything to every one — Windows 8. I’ll wait for Windows 9 perhaps.


11 posted on 05/22/2012 8:41:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: mkleesma

My thoughts as well.....I don’t want a windows iphone interface on my desktop....just give me an OS that works....


12 posted on 05/22/2012 8:42:23 AM PDT by illiac (If we don't change directions soon, we'll get where we're going)
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To: Da Coyote

RE: I loathe, dispise, and spit upon Microsoft - having suffered from their junk since they first spawned their ill-conceived junk on the unsuspecting public.

__________________

So, Since Microsoft is universally hated and Apple universally loved, the obvious question is this -— when is Apple’s operating system going to capture nearly 90% of the market the way Windows did?


13 posted on 05/22/2012 8:43:59 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: illiac
Microsoft put everything in to please everyone

Translation:

It's Über Bloatware.

The most bloated thing Microsoft has ever attempted.

And THAT ladies and gentlemen is a VERY HIGH bar!

14 posted on 05/22/2012 8:45:04 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: illiac

Still running Windows XP here. Don’t see the point of subsequent changes. The obvious upgrade path from here is to OS X Mountain Lion.


15 posted on 05/22/2012 8:45:32 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: chrisser
Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Microsoft changing the interface purely for change’s sake.

Absolutely!

Their ribbon menuing is the most asinine change they have ever made, except for the jumping around in file explorer.

Also, their changed interface with the disappearing/reappearing links in many areas is downright stupid. I have to move my mouse pointer all over the 'box' and guess that I might find a link. BRING BACK BUTTONS and pulldown menus! They made it obvious were the links were.

Designers of both all three should be shot, and they shouldn't even wait until sunrise.
16 posted on 05/22/2012 8:46:45 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: chrisser

Do you know of any way to restore the classic interface to Orifice 2007?


17 posted on 05/22/2012 8:46:45 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: chrisser

>> Frankly, I’m sick and tired of Microsoft changing the interface purely for change’s sake.

You mean like IE9? Buttons that were on the left are now on the right &etc. No new functionality, no new benefit, just change for change’s sake. Makes me a little MORE insane than I already was.


18 posted on 05/22/2012 8:49:39 AM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: illiac

“Microsoft wanted different....”

Why, for the love of God, why? If it ain’t broke DON’T FIX IT.


19 posted on 05/22/2012 8:50:27 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: illiac

I like Windows 7, although I had some problems with it until the release of SP-1. But it looks like Windows 8 is going to be the worst loser yet. Too bad.


20 posted on 05/22/2012 8:51:27 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: null and void

Not sure about Office, but I did find an interface program that sort of helps restore some of the XP-like features to file explorer:

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

You might try google search for ‘classic menu’


21 posted on 05/22/2012 8:54:39 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Da Coyote

....the wife and ME....is the correct usage.

The words you use should be the same when used TOGETHER as they would be if used separately. So if “...it’s Apple for the wife at home” if used singly......and if “...it’s Apple for me at home” when used singly; then it’s the same when used together, as illustrated above.

Other than that, you done good! ;oD


22 posted on 05/22/2012 8:58:04 AM PDT by Tucker39 ( Psa 68:19Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits; even the God of our salvation.KJV)
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To: null and void

If you find out, nav, pls Ping me. I want it back, too.


23 posted on 05/22/2012 8:58:15 AM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: TomGuy

Thanks.


24 posted on 05/22/2012 8:58:48 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: Boogieman
Why, for the love of God, why? If it ain’t broke DON’T FIX IT.

DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run...

25 posted on 05/22/2012 9:00:32 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: TomGuy

I’m sitting on my laurels to have been ahead of the curve, went Apple from TI 99/4a, bought stock....mmmmmm. Microsoft is deservedly on the way out for being squares and dweebs.


26 posted on 05/22/2012 9:01:36 AM PDT by lefty-lie-spy (Stay metal. For the Horde \m/("_")\m/ - via iPhone from Tokyo.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I believe W8 is targeted to the mobile computing market. As in the presumed successor to the desktop and laptop. I think they’re putting it out there early to give hardware developers an OS to develop their hardware to. The end result will be a MS IPAD-like device which replaces desktop and laptops. You just bring it with you wherever you go and connect via whatever network is available.


27 posted on 05/22/2012 9:05:25 AM PDT by Justa
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To: TomGuy
All of the shortcut keys are the same. I haven't used the ribbon buttons for a while now. As long as I can still pop a text menu and they don't remap my ctl-alt- commands... I'm good.

Agreed that the mobile interface makes ZERO sense on a desktop. With the prevalence of iPads and other tablet devies taking over for desktops... It does make a certain kind of sense.

28 posted on 05/22/2012 9:07:34 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: illiac
Being document or task centric is good - but a quick look at Windows 8 (and for that matter Windows 7), and you can see that although the bells and whistles of the Aero interface are gone - the Windows interface is BIGGER (a previous poster mentioned Office 7 - the ribbon did the same thing). Look at OS X and you will see the same focus on tasks or documents - but the interface is SMALLER.

Lesson? Microsoft is all about themselves, not the customer. What they think looks cool is what matters to them... Windows 8 will be a sad end to a great company.
29 posted on 05/22/2012 9:07:52 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: TomGuy; chrisser

Heck, even 2008 Server indulged the idiocy of changing interfaces for the heck of it rather than to improve things. The entire way of using the GPO administrative application changed. You basically had to completely unlearn the process and learn the new one. What crack smoking moron decided to do that to SysAdmins?

I took a class on writing user interfaces some time ago, and it was a pretty basic rule that you don’t yank the rug out from under users and make them relearn everything without a damned good reason. Microsoft seems to like doing it on a lark.


30 posted on 05/22/2012 9:15:21 AM PDT by drbuzzard (All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.)
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To: illiac
About every other MS OS is good.

98 Good, ME, not so much.

XP excellent. Vista, junk.

Windows 7 good. Windows 8 will likely be unusable.

31 posted on 05/22/2012 9:16:01 AM PDT by wbill
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To: null and void
Do you know of any way to restore the classic interface to Orifice 2007?

One of my people described it as Office having an orb-gasm.

I didn't look into any sort of back-compatible interface. This particular upgrade coincided with a bulk machine buy, along with Win7 so we just bit the bullet and forced everyone to make the change.

Part of that reasoning was that since it was the "new" MS-way of doing things, we may as well make them do it once and be done.

Now that the "new way" is being dumped for the "new new way" a few short years later, I wish we would have stuck with XP and O2003 and spent the money on other things.
32 posted on 05/22/2012 9:17:03 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: mkleesma
Phone icons scaled up to desktop proportions doesn't work any better than a desktop scaled down to a phone. The two are different tools. It's as if Microsoft wanted one kind of hammer that could be used to drive railroad ties or hang a picture.
33 posted on 05/22/2012 9:18:59 AM PDT by 6SJ7 (Meh.)
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To: drbuzzard

Yeah, their server shenanigans are a whole separate rant of mine. Especially since I have both 03 and 08 boxes in production and have to keep switching between the two (not to mention the convoluted mess IIS turned into).


34 posted on 05/22/2012 9:19:51 AM PDT by chrisser (Starve the Monkeys!)
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To: chrisser

Yeah. Hindsight is 20/40...


35 posted on 05/22/2012 9:22:38 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: SeekAndFind
So, Since Microsoft is universally hated and Apple universally loved, the obvious question is this -— when is Apple’s operating system going to capture nearly 90% of the market the way Windows did?

Never. Apple does not want to play in the low-margin market, so that will be left to others. Figure 30% market share for desktops is the most reasonable target, but all on the upper 50% of desktops by price. Probably higher market share for laptops, but again, all in the upper half of systems.

The rest of the market.... well, that's Microsoft for now, but don't be too surprised some years down the road if Linux becomes standardized enough to be the OS of choice for low-end hardware such as netbooks, because the price of the OS for something like Windows will be prohibitive compared to hardware cost.

To head that off, Microsoft will have to cut prices and deal with smaller profits on a smaller piece of the overall pie, though they could still easily have a majority of marketshare, but without the profits they're accustomed to.

36 posted on 05/22/2012 9:29:28 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: null and void

There are plugins that you can install to bring the old menus back. UBitMenu is one of them, but there are others too.

http://www.ubit.ch/software/ubitmenu-languages/


37 posted on 05/22/2012 9:45:28 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: 6SJ7
Phone icons scaled up to desktop proportions doesn't work any better than a desktop scaled down to a phone. The two are different tools. It's as if Microsoft wanted one kind of hammer that could be used to drive railroad ties or hang a picture.

Uggh! Tablets/smart phones are useful for processing other people's data, but they are awful for entering anything more than a minimal amount of data. For example, I love playing music on my iPod Touch, but I could never imagine editing music on it - the touch user interface is just far too sloppy on positioning to do any useful cutting and pasting. It gets a little better with a capacitive stylus, but you don't get the single pixel positioning like you can with a mouse.

Similarly, viewing webpages is wonderful on a tablet (for most sites, some stink on ice without a full screen). But even entering this amount of data and html codes would just be painful. If I'm responding on FR on a tablet, I usually skip quoting other text or putting in any html codes. And even then it takes many times longer to type that it would with a real keyboard.

38 posted on 05/22/2012 9:46:27 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: illiac

Originally (pre-PC) the whole concept of SOFTware was that you could change it without changing the HARDware.

Now, every OS “upgrade” requires significant hardware improvments.

I gave up on this “upgrade racket” awhile ago. I got an extra refurb-XP when Vista came out.

I’m going lower tech because I’m really just not interested in completely updating my stuff just because some company want a new influx of cash.

Same for me on cell phones. I have not and don’t plan on getting iPhone, etc..


39 posted on 05/22/2012 9:52:32 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: carriage_hill; Boogieman

See post #37, thanks Boogieman!


40 posted on 05/22/2012 10:07:05 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1218 of our ObamaVacation from reality [and what dark chill/is gathering still/before the storm])
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To: kevkrom

your comments have been made with every windows upgrade since windows 3.1


41 posted on 05/22/2012 10:22:41 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
your comments have been made with every windows upgrade since windows 3.1

Which ones? I made quite a few distinct points.

42 posted on 05/22/2012 10:30:23 AM PDT by kevkrom (Those in a rush to trample the Constitution seem to forget that it is the source of their authority.)
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To: illiac

I tried the beta...hated it.


43 posted on 05/22/2012 10:36:53 AM PDT by arielguard (Fasting without prayer is vainglory.)
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To: ShadowAce

For the tech PING list.


44 posted on 05/22/2012 11:05:05 AM PDT by CedarDave (Romney: Dresses and looks like a '50's character from "Mad Men" but no one's buying his shtick.)
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To: illiac; rdb3; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Salo; JosephW; Only1choice____Freedom; amigatec; stylin_geek; ...

45 posted on 05/22/2012 11:08:31 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: SeekAndFind
So, Since Microsoft is universally hated and Apple universally loved, the obvious question is this -— when is Apple’s operating system going to capture nearly 90% of the market the way Windows did?

The day Apple starts selling machines as cheaply as the Windows machines, they will take over the market.

But I sure wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

47 posted on 05/22/2012 11:16:23 AM PDT by CharacterCounts (A vote for the lesser of two evils only insures the triumph of evil.)
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To: chrisser

“We’ve looked at Linux on the desktop in the past, but never pursued it because changing the user environment that radically wasn’t worth the cost. Windows 8 seems to make Linux much more attractive.”

If all the user needs is the functionality of a web browser and an “office” environment, Linux fills the bill nicely. Even the latest Ubuntu can be tweaked in minutes to resemble Windows XP so well that it takes the average person a little while to figure out they are not running Windows. Perhaps Joe Sixpack could not set up Linux to that extent, but any competent IT Dept. should be able to if I can do it (’cuz I don’t even know Unix).


48 posted on 05/22/2012 12:26:54 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: null and void

There is a program that can restore the look and feel of Office 2003 to 2007 and 2010. I can’t think of the name off hand but when I get home I’ll look it up.


49 posted on 05/22/2012 12:44:51 PM PDT by ducttape45
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To: null and void

http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/


50 posted on 05/22/2012 12:48:38 PM PDT by ducttape45
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