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Greece under the leftists: Debt-free, well-paid and a proud people
Gulf Times ^ | 6/4/2012 | AFP/Athens

Posted on 06/03/2012 10:25:05 PM PDT by aquila48

No debt repayments, higher salaries and freedom from EU-IMF tutelage: Greece under the radical leftists, who are poised to win a June 17 election, seems a world removed from its current recession nightmare. The Syriza party has pledged to tear up Greece’s loan agreement with the EU and the IMF, which is currently keeping the country on its feet but at the cost of an unprecedented wave of austerity cuts and structural reforms. If implemented, such a programme, which would also mean the nationalisation of banks and a halt to privatisation, could well mean Greece’s ejection from the eurozone, potentially sending shockwaves through the global economy. Fed up with two years of salary and pension cuts, Greek voters on May 6 punished larger parties associated with the bailout and catapulted Syriza to second place, within striking distance of the top.

(Excerpt) Read more at gulf-times.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; History
KEYWORDS: alexistsipras; cyprus; europeanunion; france; germany; greece; israel; jihadists; kurdistan; lebanon; russia; syria; syriza; turkey; unitedkingdom

1 posted on 06/03/2012 10:25:13 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48
Roll the panzers, time for a repossession.
And I'm only half-kidding. Whizzing on the IMF can be dangerous.
2 posted on 06/03/2012 10:31:41 PM PDT by thescourged1
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To: aquila48

So. They want to be Cuba.

Isn’t it amazing how people never learn.


3 posted on 06/03/2012 10:32:27 PM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: aquila48

If Michael Moore were in charge of a country it would be Greece. Reality is a vague notion to leftists everywhere and they care nothing for history or the absolute laws of economics.


4 posted on 06/03/2012 10:33:22 PM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids can pay for it!)
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To: aquila48

And magic unicorns will pee Dom Perignon Champagne.


5 posted on 06/03/2012 10:39:35 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
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To: aquila48
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with more socialism? It is working out so wonderfully. Obama and his idiot party thinks its great too!


6 posted on 06/03/2012 10:43:35 PM PDT by FormerACLUmember
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To: aquila48
The Syriza party has pledged to tear up Greece’s loan agreement with the EU and the IMF, which is currently keeping the country on its feet but at the cost of an unprecedented wave of austerity cuts and structural reforms.

Basic arithmetic and basic economics just called, and they say they don't care what the "Syriza party" has pledged. Greece is going to undergo austerity cuts and structural reforms no matter what BS Greek politicians spew.
7 posted on 06/03/2012 11:06:49 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: aquila48

Financial “Crisis” in Greece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Zvl9N9GdraQ


8 posted on 06/03/2012 11:24:23 PM PDT by Carthego delenda est
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To: Carthego delenda est

That is great... and as plausible an explanation as I’ve heard!

I took a look at some of his other videos - “greek family values” was a riot.


9 posted on 06/04/2012 12:05:54 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: aquila48

“Greece under the leftists: Debt-free, well-paid and a proud people”

Wow, there’s a (barely) first world electorate more stupid than America’s. At least if they believe this idiocy.

Want to see a trial run for preppers? Greece is it. Spain soon to follow...


10 posted on 06/04/2012 12:43:02 AM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: aquila48

Look for the EU to break up.


11 posted on 06/04/2012 3:00:13 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: piytar

We’re going the exact same way.

Except we’re just going to come to that idea, later...

Nothing we’re doing, is keeping America in the leadership role. We’re just arguing about who gets to control what’s left.


12 posted on 06/04/2012 3:03:40 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America doesn't need any new laws. America needs freedom!)
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To: piytar; aquila48
yes, they are stupid, but the reasons for this is the cuts they've experienced over the past two years -- they have been severe. BUT, what the electorate are not doing is connecting the laxatiy of Greek society in the past 2 decades to this -- they are just seeing the pain and not acknowledging that they themselves are the root of this pain

It's like the Germans in the 1930s -- I was discussing this with my wife and one reason the Germans were so eager to start war again in 38 was because they did not experience fighting on their own territory -- the French and Belgians did and were reluctant to see this happen again. The Germans didn't and got that "stab-in-the-back" myth. Just imagine if the Entente had fought into Germany and showed the people what hell is like? there would have been no shitler, no holocaust, no pojramos.

13 posted on 06/04/2012 3:48:17 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

The German people were nowhere near as bellicose as Hitler and the Nazis. For Hitler, the Great War was the highlight of his life, his minor success reverse his previous life long failures.

In his book, Inside the Third Reich, Albert Speer says that after the fall of France, the mood of the German people was subdued, much to the disappointment of the Nazi Party. Most Germans did not welcome the War. After World War 2.0, the Germans did experience war like few other people ever had and had no taste for it.

When people like Farrakhan call for a War on white people (and he means an actual shooting war) I think the only people who would welcome such are war are people who have absolutely no idea what war is.


14 posted on 06/04/2012 4:04:18 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: thescourged1

There won’t be any repossession, but the economy will be constrained. Already the national power company is warning of blackouts because they cannot purchase fuel (the government set rates so low that the power company cannot pay).

International trading partners are demanding cash up front and security bonds for work contracted in Greece, fearing that Greek courts will not honor contracts denominated in Euros. Once default comes, Greece will be much, much poorer. Default only brings mild temporary relief.

Without imports, Greeks will ride in donkey carts and eat grass.


15 posted on 06/04/2012 4:13:34 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: I still care

Leftists always want to be Cuba. Including the nuts here in Norway.

Must be the cigars.


16 posted on 06/04/2012 4:24:01 AM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (nobody gives me warheads anyway))
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Actually, Speer’s book should be mandatory reading, even if it is a brick.


17 posted on 06/04/2012 4:28:20 AM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (nobody gives me warheads anyway))
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To: Kartographer; piytar

Ping to post #10. I suspect piytar is spot on.


18 posted on 06/04/2012 4:29:59 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: aquila48

Take the money and run?


19 posted on 06/04/2012 4:36:19 AM PDT by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
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To: aquila48
If Syriza's platform is what is presented in this article (and certainly searching around the net doesn't reveal anything other than these are some very demented lefties), then it will get very bad in Greece if they take power.

Well, at least the Kenyan Clown and M. Hollande will find that they have a great deal in common with Syriza, and no doubt Washington and Paris will fete them in grand style.

20 posted on 06/04/2012 5:05:24 AM PDT by snowsislander (Please, America, no more dog-eating Kenyan cokeheads in the Oval Office.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
"Most Germans did not welcome the War" -- I should read Speer's book, because from what i've read (historical notes and primarily William L Shirer, the Germans were joyful and celebrating the fall of France).

you are correct that after WWII they are completely anti-war, but that's because war was taken to their doorsteps.

I dispute the Germans did experience war like few other people ever had -- I live now in Poland (moved here 2 years ago) and everywhere I go I see how WWII affected the Poles -- they lost the most numbers of people (20% of the population) and were in the process of being eliminated by the GErmans.

on every street corner in warsaw -- sometimes in 2/3 places on the street you will see a memorial saying "on xx date in 194__ yy numbers of poles were killed by Germans"

You can see pictures of how the Germans levelled Warsaw.

In fact, if you go hiking in the mountains in the south you'll find places where Germans killed Poles.

imho the Poles had it the worst in WWII -- more than the Germans or Russians.

They had it pretty bad in WWI as well -- 5 different armies fought on their lands and the lands were exchanged nearly 14 times through the war, millions of soldiers and civilians killed.

No, I had sympathy for the Germans before I moved here, but they got what was coming to them (I mean the Germans in 1945 got what was coming to them).

Even today I see Polish kids with graffitti that says "Pamiętamy" -- or "We will remember". Not that they keep the hate, but they rather remember the sacrifices their ancestors paid for their independance.

21 posted on 06/04/2012 5:07:00 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I also do think that the Germanic people between the wars were pretty bellicose. Not as much as the Nutzis of course, but in comparison to their neighbors, YES.


22 posted on 06/04/2012 5:36:39 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
There is a Latin expression that runs something like dulce bellum inexperto: "war is sweet to the one who has no experience of it" (Latin is pithier than English). Before WWI there were a lot of people who believed that a war would be a good thing for building character--since most of Europe had experienced no wars or just brief ones since 1815.
23 posted on 06/04/2012 7:20:13 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: aquila48
The worst system ever devised by man for the governing of men - except for all the others.

A basic problem with electoral politics as captured by “the Simpson's”.

“I can't promise you victory, I can't promise you good times” Bart.

The crowd grumbles and starts to melt away....

“I promise you VICTORY! I promise you GOOD TIMES!!!!” Bart - realizing his error.

24 posted on 06/04/2012 7:28:24 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Cronos
I was discussing this with my wife and one reason the Germans were so eager to start war again in 38 was because they did not experience fighting on their own territory -- the French and Belgians did and were reluctant to see this happen again. The Germans didn't and got that "stab-in-the-back" myth. Just imagine if the Entente had fought into Germany and showed the people what hell is like? there would have been no shitler, no holocaust, no pojramos.

The Allies certainly weren't going to make that mistake the second time around.

25 posted on 06/04/2012 7:32:12 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Cronos
on every street corner in warsaw -- sometimes in 2/3 places on the street you will see a memorial saying "on xx date in 194__ yy numbers of poles were killed by Germans"

Every August 1st at 5:00 PM, Warsaw stops for one minute, to commemorate "W Hour" the beginning of the Warsaw Uprising.

26 posted on 06/04/2012 7:35:09 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Cronos

The other thing that happened after the war, was that the ethnic Germans were kicked out of Silesia and Pomerania and the Sudetenland, so that there would be no more exploits like before the war.....Of course, Poles were kicked out of Western Ukraine and shipped West to the lands that the Germans were kicked out of.


27 posted on 06/04/2012 7:38:30 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: aquila48

so if the loan repayment agreement is torn up they don’t owe anyone anything? Gee can I try that with my credit card statement or my tax bill?


28 posted on 06/04/2012 7:39:03 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Cronos

We have absolutely no disagreement.

I said few others had experienced War like the Germans. The Poles and Russians are among the few. I have cited the fact that the Poles suffered more in proportion to their population than any other people from World War II, with the exception of the Jews, more than once in other threads. One of the most frustrating aspects about the fate of the Poles is that they were probably the least deserving of that fate; they prepared as best they could for the War and fought valiantly against Nazis and the Russians simultaneously.

In September 1939 there were five German divisions between the Rhine and Berlin. The Belgians and Dutch could mobilize 30 divisions between them. If the Belgian Army had invaded Germany in September 1939, it would have been a race between the Germany Army in the East and Belgians to see who would have gotten there first. Don’t. Even. Talk. About. The. French. Sheltering. Behind. The. Maginot. Line.

The suffering of the Poles was imposed by both the Germans and the Russians.

Speer said that the Nazi leadship comprised people who had, for the most part, never or rarely traveled outside of Germany. Most Germans holidayed in Paris or London or Rome occassionally, and would never have looked forward to the destruction of those cities.


29 posted on 06/04/2012 8:03:05 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: dfwgator; Lonesome in Massachussets

True. And the lessons we learn from this are clear to me — it’s classic Sun-Tzu, when an enemy is down, vanquish him utterly, totally. At the end of WWII, Germany had nothing, no state organizations, nothing. Utter wasteland.


30 posted on 06/05/2012 12:31:16 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: dfwgator; Lonesome in Massachussets
The Germany of WWII is DEAD.

On FR there are quite a few Germanophobes who'll call out nutzi slogans when talking about the euro crises. But I do not share their sentiments. The Germans of today are not the Germans of the 30s and 40s.

After WWII, Stalin solved the German liebesraum problem once and for all -- nearly every person identifying as a German in Central and Eastern Europe outside Germany, Austria and Switzerland were transported to Germany. Even if they had lived for half a millenia, a millenia there, they were shipped to this strange land of 'germania'.

he also "solved" the Polish Kresy problem by kicking Poles out of what were Polish lands (western Ukraine and Belarus -- ok, let's be precise, this was joint Polish/Ruthenian lands, with the people being ethnically and racially the same, just the ones who climbed up in society identified as Poles and the folky, rural folks identified as Ruthenian)

Stalin also "solved" the Polish-German border problem by chopping off what was eastern Germany and giving it to Poland -- places like Breslau, Stettin which were nearly 90% German now became Wrocław and Szczecin -- and created the border on the Oder-Neisse.

WWII ended the middle-ages idea that people of different ethnicities could live together and it created the mono-ethnic states in central Europe.

The Germanic peoples lost the most in this, but arguably they gambled the most.

Now they work hard and in many ways allow others to walk over them.

But the Germans of today while always remembering their ancestors past, are not responsible for it. young Germans are taught from class 1 what atrocities their ancestors committed. They know.

31 posted on 06/05/2012 12:33:46 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: dfwgator

True. i think it’s impossible to forget about the war in Warsaw — it’s there all around you. As a non-Pole, i find it difficult to believe that Poles can forgive Germans and Russians for what these nations did. But most Poles do forgive — especially the young. But the old, the 70+, they can’t stand the sound of German. I’ve seen an old lady cry when she just heard some words...


32 posted on 06/05/2012 12:36:39 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets; dfwgator
One of the most frustrating aspects about the fate of the Poles is that they were probably the least deserving of that fate; they prepared as best they could for the War and fought valiantly against Nazis and the Russians simultaneously.

I love discussing history. And you are correct about them fighting a losing battle.

On hindsight except for ONE option there was absolutely no way for Poland to have had anything but the fate it had.

in 1920 a young nation, just recreated after 130 years of partition, fought valiantly against a new mongol horde -- the soviet army (read Zamoyski's '1920') and pushed it back, but they spent years rebuilding this nation. They could not have stopped Hitler in 1930 - the French and British could have done this, but they didn't.

The Soviets wanted Poland destroyed utterly -- as revenge for 1920 and going further back, for Poland standing in Muscowy's way for centuries. Zamoyski has a good description of the Soviet march on warsaw -- to the Poles, they were fervently Catholic and to them their love of their nation bordered on religious fanaticism. The Bolshevik ideals of atheism and globalism had no fancy for Poles. the Bolsheviks had been used to fighting in the steppes and gathering people to their cause as they moved, but in the Polish heartlands they got none. They couldn't understand the Poles and arguably forcing communism on Poland (as Stalin said 'putting a saddle on a cow') was the worst mistake the Soviets made and was the root of their downfall.

On the other side you had the Nazis who raised their love of Germania to pagan worship levels. To them, the Poles stood in the way of their living room. To them, the Poles had been the enemy since the Wends moved into Brandenburg, since the defeat of the Teutonic knights at Grunwald.

There could be no compromise for the Nazis -- Poland was to be eliminated, utterly. Warsaw was to be made a railway terminus, nothing more. All Polish people: Gentile or Jew were to be eliminated - either killed or deported.

the Poles has no chance between these two.

the only nation that can roughly compare is Finland, but even the Finns had the Germans supporting them as being a "warrior race".

the ONE option was Piłsudski's Międzymorze -- between the seas -- it was viable then and it is viable now. the idea was that Central Europe was neither to fall under Germanic or Muscowite influence, but to form a splendid alliance from Latvia to Bessarabia -- a modern-day Rzeczpospolita (Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth).

The more I read of Piłsudski, the more I admire him compare to Dmowski (a Polish ultra-nationalist) -- Piłsudski's idea of a Poland that was not "pure Polish" but one where Jews, Armenians, Germans, Ruthenians, Poles, Lithuanians. etc. were equal partners, went against the nationalist tones of the late 1800s, but it would have worked -- however Polish, Lithuanian and Ukrainian ultra-nationalists with their non-compromising attitudes, destroyed this and laid central europe open to misery for 70 years.

33 posted on 06/05/2012 12:54:11 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets; dfwgator
fought valiantly against Nazis and the Russians simultaneously.

one thing about the Poles -- admirable or deplorable, or perhaps both, is that they won't back down. They will throw caution to the winds and be brave and hussar-like. The Russians have a metaphor -- dumny jak polak -- proud as a Pole. And they are right

the name "poland" or "polska" is derived from pole -- fields. And most of Poland is flat - perfect land to farm or for a small invading force to easily conquer (but not to hold). They could have retreated to the Beskid and Tatra mountains and defended it successfully, but to them giving up their land was unthinkable. Unfortunately it meant they lost everything

The same thing happened at the Warsaw Uprising. Warsawianki today sneer at Prague that the Czechs didn't fight for their independence and so kept their city intact. The Poles, seeing that the Russians were advancing, were determined that warsaw would be freed by Poles. Brave and foolhardy and trusting -- yes, trusting. The Russians were on the eastern banks of the Vistula, but they just sat and watched the Germans level Warsaw. The Allies did nothing. And Polish hopes were dashed.

This nation is brave and foolhardy, yet they somehow have survived through the odds -- you can only say that the Jewish nation and the Armenian nation have done it better

34 posted on 06/05/2012 1:01:44 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

but yet, about Belgium and the Netherlands — in WWI, ypres etc. were on Belgian soil — they saw millions die on Belgian soil. To start another cataclysm so soon was too shocking.


35 posted on 06/05/2012 1:06:25 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks aquila48. This is interesting -- Greece and Israel have aligned, mostly over the fields off Cyprus but partly over Turkish repudiation of its previous good relations with Israel; Turkey has given sanctuary to Syrian refugees including the FSA and has rattled sabers about those fields; Russia's backing the brutal Assad dictatorship and supporting Greece and Greek Cyprus; the Gulf states (by and large) want Assad out, but even moreso want to separate Greece and Israel, and don't want Turkey and Iran to go back to breaking bread together. FRchives:
36 posted on 06/17/2012 8:32:41 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Thanks for that update on the complicated cross-currents of alliances in the Meditteranean.

Turkey is too powerful to be ignored, or slapped into line, but I don’t think they can just enlarge themselves at the expense of Syria and Greece.


37 posted on 06/17/2012 5:09:57 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Biggirl

Just before the Islamofascists cow everyone in Europe into submission. Greece didn’t mean to, but they might just save Western civilization from absorption into the regenerate Ottoman Empire.


38 posted on 06/17/2012 6:20:55 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: BlackVeil

Thanks! They’re the cork in the bottle, and I doubt anyone’s about to help that to change.


39 posted on 06/17/2012 8:43:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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