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Why would Japan attack the United States given the vast difference in petroleum production?
League of Nations | June 10 2012 | me

Posted on 06/09/2012 10:58:24 PM PDT by moonshot925

I am going to use the data from the "League of Nations Statistical Yearbook" for the year 1937. It has accurate figures for production.

CRUDE PETROLEUM PRODUCTION(metric tonnes)

United States = 148,070,000

Japan = 354,000


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Military/Veterans
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It is important to note that the United States produced 418 times more petroleum than Japan in 1937.
1 posted on 06/09/2012 10:58:35 PM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

Because we cut off petroleum sales to them, that’s one of the reasons.


2 posted on 06/09/2012 11:05:08 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NO FOREIGN NATIONALS AS OUR PRESIDENT)
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To: moonshot925

Thanks for more neat statistics, moonshot925.

The Japanese knew they would never win a war with the United States.

Why they attacked Pearl Harbor is complex.

BTW, FDR wanted to bomb Japan from China in 1940.


3 posted on 06/09/2012 11:08:06 PM PDT by unkus (Silence Is Consent)
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To: moonshot925

They went after Indonesia, which had plenty of oil.

The US didn’t have much of a military at the beginning of the war. It amazes me still how quickly and dramatically we created a fleet and an army from almost nothing to an armada big enough to fight two major wars simultaneously. And win.


4 posted on 06/09/2012 11:13:30 PM PDT by marron
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To: moonshot925

That’s a very complex question, one with no simple answer, but a bare bones version is China. Japan invaded China in ‘37, and by 1941, the US government, which had a large and rather vocal Chinese lobby, had had enough. The US enacted trade embargoes on many materials declared to be related to the war in China, such as oil and steel. Trade would be reopened if certain goalposts on an American-backed plan for peace were met. Japan didn’t feel like it could back down, and the embargoes were hitting the import-reliant Japanese economy hard. Therefore, it was decided that Japan would attempt to seize the resource-rich European colonies in the Pacific. The Philippines were (erroneously in retrospect) seen as a dagger straight into the heart of the supply lines of a potential invasion of the Dutch East Indies, and the British holdings in the Pacific. Therefore, it was felt that the US must be quickly knocked out in order to achieve their ultimate goal of conquering China.

Japan underestimated the US military, overestimated their own forces, and completely misread the politics of the US. They were hoping that a swift series of military victories could bring the US to the negotiating table like Russia in 1906. They were very, very wrong.


5 posted on 06/09/2012 11:14:40 PM PDT by JerseyanExile
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To: moonshot925
They gambled, figuring that they could take out our Pacific fleet and at the same time, grab the oil-rich Dutch east Indies and utilize the petroleum resources there. It didn't work out because they didn't have a sufficient tanker fleet and those they did have were constantly harried by American submarines and air power. This meant that they had to base their fleet near their oil resources and once those resources were isolated from the main islands, the war was quickly lost.

Here's an interesting article on Japan's oil situation. Note that toward the end, they were reduced to distilling pine roots for aviation fuel.

The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia: Oil
6 posted on 06/09/2012 11:20:38 PM PDT by Antoninus (Sorry, gone rogue.)
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To: Antoninus

“oil-rich Dutch East Indies”

Compared to the United States, the Dutch East Indies were NOT oil-rich. The Dutch East Indies produced 7,262,000 metric tonnes of petroleum in 1937. That is only 5% of what the United States produced in the same year.


7 posted on 06/09/2012 11:27:50 PM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

They believed they were a superior race and invincible. Americans were not much more than apes to their way of thinking.


8 posted on 06/09/2012 11:42:57 PM PDT by Kirkwood (It's not a lie. It's a composite.)
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To: JerseyanExile
Perfect.
9 posted on 06/10/2012 12:09:06 AM PDT by Domangart
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To: marron
The US didn’t have much of a military at the beginning of the war. It amazes me still how quickly and dramatically we created a fleet and an army from almost nothing to an armada big enough to fight two major wars simultaneously. And win.

American war manufacturing got a little bit of a jump-start through lend-lease to allies up to a couple years before entering the war - fortunately.
10 posted on 06/10/2012 12:12:44 AM PDT by clearcarbon
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To: marron

“The US didn’t have much of a military at the beginning of the war.”

We had 17 battleships and 7 aircraft carriers on 6 December 1941. 8 battleships and 5 aircraft carriers were under construction. The US Navy was a strong force.


11 posted on 06/10/2012 12:32:15 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

Of the battleships, 8 were in the Atlantic and the Colorado was at Bremerton, WA being overhauled. We all know what happened to the others.

Of the aircraft carriers, 4 were in the Atlantic and the three Pacific carriers - Lexington and Enterprise were at sea and Saratoga was in CA - were saved. None of the carriers under construction were available before December 1942. We were in bad shape after Pearl Harbor; only America’s mighty manufacturing base saved us.


12 posted on 06/10/2012 2:16:44 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: SatinDoll

We also cut off steel, ore and scrap steel too didn’t we?


13 posted on 06/10/2012 2:17:08 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: clearcarbon

Also important to remember that many strategic US weapons were in full development BEFORE Pearl Harbor.

The B-29, the P-51 Mustang, the Jeep, which gave field officers unprecedented mobility.

America also developed and deployed the finest battlefield telephone and radio system in military history.

Also, the C-47, which was the finest cargo aircraft in the war.


14 posted on 06/10/2012 2:25:07 AM PDT by zeestephen
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To: SatinDoll
The proximate cause of the war was cutting off the oil. They had enough on hand in Japan to keep industry going for another 30 days, or they could make an attack on everybody between them and Indonesia where there was oil.

Rather than commit national economic suicide they attacked.

15 posted on 06/10/2012 2:37:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: moonshot925

Logistics did not seem to be their strong point. Instead of field kitchens, they would issue cookable food to the individual soldiers before the campaign, enough for a week or so, even before long campaigns. Capture what you need when you finish this.

I wonder how much that had to do with the atrocities? Take a bunch of prisoners when you’ve been out of food for two weeks and what happens next...


16 posted on 06/10/2012 2:55:12 AM PDT by InMemoriam (Downticket, people.)
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To: JerseyanExile

Don’t forget Japan had invaded Manchuria in 1931 , had defeated Russia in the 1904 war, and had invaded Korea before that. Japanese militarists and emperor thought they could do no wrong. The oil embargo also didn’t stop Japan from the scrap with Russia in 1939-40. Japan was in an aggressive mood and needed to take out the U.S. and Britain to further her plans of Asian domination. They miscalculated.


17 posted on 06/10/2012 3:03:34 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: moonshot925

In 1937 we probably produced 400 times more than the rest of the world.

Japan shot their wad at Pearl Harbor and by the end of the war they were parking their ships due to a lack of fuel. The same lack of oil caused Germany downfall.


18 posted on 06/10/2012 3:11:36 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: InMemoriam
"atrocities"

The Japanese considered anyone not Japanese as inferior ( they still do). They also regarded surrendering as disgraceful and scorned Allied troops who surrendered as cowards who didn't deserve normal enemy prisoner treatment. By contrast, the Nazis treated pows fairly well with the exception of the Russians who they were pretty awful to. Japan's atrocities in China towards the civilian population rival anything the Nazis did, but they did not limit their atrocities to the Chinese. They slaughtered over 100k Filipinos in Manila when retreating after we invaded in 1944 with the return of MacArthur.

So keep that in mind the next time the leftists start whining about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The A-bomb saved about 100k American lives who would have died in an invasion of the home islands... and also about a million Japanese civilian lives who would have been sacrificed to try to stop us.

19 posted on 06/10/2012 3:17:02 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: marron
The US didn’t have much of a military at the beginning of the war. It amazes me still how quickly and dramatically we created a fleet and an army from almost nothing to an armada big enough to fight two major wars simultaneously. And win.

It is amazing. D'Tocqueville had something to say about why that is:

CAUSES WHICH RENDER DEMOCRATIC ARMIES WEAKER THAN OTHER ARMIES AT THE OUTSET OF A CAMPAIGN, AND MORE FORMIDABLE IN PROTRACTED WARFARE

20 posted on 06/10/2012 3:24:21 AM PDT by Claud
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To: moonshot925
A bit facile: The reason the Japanese attacked the US and initiated the war was our attempted restriction of their aggressive expansion in Asia. The quanitities of oil available were a factor in their decision-making processes but they didn't need more than a certain basic amount to fuel their manufacturing and military requirements. Having n million tons per year of oil more than our adversary didn't make any difference at all if we didn't have the engineering, manufacturing, personnel, and most of all the will to fight them.

In the Japanese extimation, the United States didn't have the moral strength or unity to fight a bloody war of attrition in the Pacific. They believed that one or two quick, decisive blows would eliminate our naval power and our advance bases in Asia and they would assert control and that we would accept the new reality.

They didn't know us.

21 posted on 06/10/2012 3:54:29 AM PDT by Chainmail
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To: NTHockey

It didn’t make much sense for the US to have the majority of its major ships on the Atlantic. Italy’s Regia Marina was confined to the Mediterranean and the Nazi surface fleet was virtually insignificant (apart from a few pocket battleships which were a nuisance...


22 posted on 06/10/2012 3:55:43 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: moonshot925
One very simple and chilling answer was provided during a series of interviews with former officers of the Japanese high command, in a documentary film of the war, produced around 1970. When asked why they chose to attack the United States, they answered, "because we didn't believe you would fight back."

"The appearance of vulnerability and weakness invites attack."
23 posted on 06/10/2012 4:17:12 AM PDT by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: Chainmail
They didn't know us.

Precisely. The American psyche, at that time, was such that the only acceptable outcome of the Pacific war was Unconditional Surrender. No other outcome was acceptable.

Mecca still stands. Times have changed.

24 posted on 06/10/2012 4:18:26 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: moonshot925
The Dutch East Indies produced 7,262,000 metric tonnes of petroleum in 1937. That is only 5% of what the United States produced in the same year.

That the relatively backwards East Indies didn't produce much isn't a surprise. Japan was interested in what was still in the ground, not what had already been pumped.

25 posted on 06/10/2012 4:25:48 AM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: Chainmail

Japan produced only 7% of their oil needs prior to the war.

but they didn’t need more than a certain basic amount to fuel their manufacturing and military requirements

Maybe Tojo and some generals espoused the above, but the Admirals understood the fuel crisis. The first thing after Pearl Harbor was to try and secure the shipping lanes to the Indies and the oil there.

WWI and WWII ended the same way with the losers stuck without the fuel to continue fighting.


26 posted on 06/10/2012 4:29:11 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: JerseyanExile
“Japan underestimated the US military, overestimated their own forces, and completely misread the politics of the US.”

Agree on all counts. The Japanese believed that they were racially superior (and btw, still do)to westerners and even their fellow Asians. Thereby, they held a deep resentment that white westerners were the colonial masters of large chunks of Asia which they considered their right to rule. Also, being that they (Japanese) did have aspirations to have hegemony over the Pacific and all the land associated with that region, including much of China they needed large quantities of natural resources such as iron and oil. When the U.S. embargoed them from access to these resources they had to look elsewhere, such as to SEA, Australia and China. However, they (Japanese) knew that inorder to conquer these countries and to rule the Pacific it would have to take out the U.S. Pacific fleet. Hence, the attack on Pearl Harbor and the following coordinated attacks on strategic countries along the Pacific rim. Btw, initially, the citizens of these various countries perceived the Japanese not as conquerors but as welcome hero's who had arrived to free them from the “white man's yoke”. Sadly, they soon learned that enslavement is enslavement regardless of the color of one’s master - and the Japanese were very harsh masters indeed...

27 posted on 06/10/2012 4:46:15 AM PDT by snoringbear (Government is the Pimp,)
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To: Gaffer

plato told him:
he couldn’t believe it

(jesus told him;
he wouldn’t believe it)

lao tsze certainly told him,

and general (yes mam) sherman ;
and even (believe it or not)

you told him:
i told him;
we told him

(he didn’t believe it,no sir)

it took a nipponized bit of

the old sixth avenue el;

in the top of his head: to tell him

— e. e. cummings


28 posted on 06/10/2012 4:52:12 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: moonshot925
Having just passed the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Midway, one wonders how the war with Japan would have turned out if that famous battle went the other way. What if the U.S. did not take out half the Japanese Navy in one fell swoop and instead, saw our own naval forces in the Pacific further reduced?

I think we still would have prevailed (due to the atomic bomb which was going to be developed regardless) but short term, the situation in the Pacific would have been much grimmer.

Almost certainly, the Japanese would have gone on to occupy the Hawaiian island and our all-important Pearl Harbor base would be useless to us. Further, the Japanese would have had a free hand in the entire Pacific and would also have captured and occupied Australia as well as the Aleutian islands and quite possibly the oil-rich area of Alaska.

The U.S. Navy would have been forced to retreat to the West Coast of the U.S. until such time that additional battleships and carriers could be built for Pacific operations. Remember that at that time, the focus was on the European War and the priority was to establish a beachhead in northern Europe - which was still two full years away.

It was because of Midway that the Allies saw fit to continue to pour resources into the Pacific - in order to keep the Japanese on the defensive. If not for the turning point of Midway, in which U.S. naval forces were able to achieve parity with the Japanese virtually overnight, the island hopping campaign that brought us virtually to the shores of mainland Japan by the time of the German surrender would not have been possible.

Instead, we would have been forced to put the Pacific War in a holding pattern and focus our efforts there on defending the West Coast until such time the battle in Europe could be won. The Japanese empire would have become just as powerful as Nazi Germany and it would likely taken us into 1946 or 1947 before we could be in position to drop atomic bombs on Japan because first we would need to get close enough to stage aircraft within striking distance (our atomic bombs were delivered by B-29s that were stationed on the island of Tinian) because at that time, our bombers did not have the range that they have today.

29 posted on 06/10/2012 4:55:16 AM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: driftless2
My Uncle Max was a cook with MacArthur's returning army in the Philippines.
Apparently, he was pretty good at it as he left the service as a Master Sergeant.
30 posted on 06/10/2012 5:17:16 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: JerseyanExile

Still can’t figure how dumb they were to attack the USA

NO way we would have attacked them for going into SE Asia

Hell the vast majority of the American public wanted no parts of war with Germany or Japan until Pearl harbor

Big blunder on their part


31 posted on 06/10/2012 5:29:46 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: moonshot925

The Japanese vastly underestimated America’s resolve. They thought we’d act like Czarist Russia after getting our nose bloodied.

Yamamoto, who had studied at Harvard and been assigned to the embassy in Washington warned the War Cabinet, “We’ll have to march into Washington and dictate the peace treaty.” in order to win. The Japanese thought that after the defeats at Pearl Harbor, the Phillipines and the western Pacific, the Americans would sue for peace.

We did not feel obligated to honor their assumptions.


32 posted on 06/10/2012 6:11:03 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: SamAdams76

What if the Japanese had invaded Pearl Harbor on December 8th?

The Japanese missed the really important target in Hawaii: oil storage facilities. On December 8, 1941, there was more oil in Hawaii than in Japan. If they had wrecked the oil storage facilities, there would have been no Battle of Midway, because there would have been no fuel for the ships and planes that won it. Instead of “The Battle of Midway” it would have been the “Unopposed Occupation of Midway”.


33 posted on 06/10/2012 6:27:18 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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To: NTHockey; All

Plus the fact that neither Germany nor Japan bombed any major infrastructure here also helped us win the war.


34 posted on 06/10/2012 6:36:49 AM PDT by KevinDavis (I would never vote for a third party!!!)
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To: SatinDoll
"Because we cut off petroleum sales to them, that’s one of the reasons."

And why did we do that, exactly? The story does not start with the U.S. embargo on Japan.

35 posted on 06/10/2012 6:42:51 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
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To: uncbob; All

Also Hitler didn’t want to declare war on us either. A false promise was made by Japan that they would attack the Soviet Union if Germany declares war on us.


36 posted on 06/10/2012 6:43:08 AM PDT by KevinDavis (I would never vote for a third party!!!)
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To: uncbob
Still can’t figure how dumb they were to attack the USA NO way we would have attacked them for going into SE Asia Hell the vast majority of the American public wanted no parts of war with Germany or Japan until Pearl harbor Big blunder on their part

Not necessarily foolish on their part. The West had gotten together to fight the Chinese during the Boxer Rebellion despite the non-existence of any standing military pact. The Japanese probably feared a sneak attack by US forces if they forged into SEA Asia, ex-US possessions like the PI. They also under-estimated the logistical capabilities of US forces, and for good reason - no one in the history of man had ever transported millions of fighting men across so many time zones to fight a war using the amount of equipment needed for modern warfare. The troops and equipment used in colonial ventures like the Philippines-American War were puny in comparison.

Then you have the fact that long distance war is tough on the nation with the long logistical tail (Uncle Sam and every European colonial power in Asia). The Russians sent their Baltic fleet thousands of miles to fend off the Japanese and were crushed at the Battle of Tsushima. Surely the Russians, with the largest empire in the world, were a more formidable opponent than the US.

Besides, Uncle Sam had always been a penny-pincher in terms of military expenditures. Would he spend vast sums of money to recover a soon-to-be ex-colony to which independence had been promised (the Philippines) and a set of islands of marginal economic value (the Hawaiian Islands) whose status at the time wasn't all that different from the Philippine Islands? From a pure dollars-and-cents perspective, it made no sense for us to fight that war. And from a security perspective, it probably never occurred to the Japanese that Uncle Sam would feel threatened by the potential Japanese conquest of the Hawaiian Islands, which are over 2000 miles away from California.

They turned out to be very wrong in their calculations, but I'd say they were unlucky rather than dumb. It never occurred to them that freedom-loving Americans would subject themselves to conscription and that US defense expenditures would ever eat up 50% of American industrial output from a pre-war base of 1% of industrial output.

37 posted on 06/10/2012 6:44:28 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: uncbob
NO way we would have attacked them for going into SE Asia

Perhaps if the Japanese had embarked upon a "peaceful occupation" of the Dutch East Indies, they might have gotten away with it. The British, who were preoccupied in Europe, would probably have done nothing, and so would the US.

38 posted on 06/10/2012 7:00:37 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: snoringbear

If the Japanese still see themselves as superior to everyone else, why do they seem not to express it as in the past and why the seeming ‘’worship’’ of sorts of things (and sometimes people of American descent) American?


39 posted on 06/10/2012 7:07:22 AM PDT by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: Zhang Fei
I think that you have a better grasp of WW II politics that almost all politicians in our current government.
40 posted on 06/10/2012 7:09:42 AM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: Zhang Fei

Like I said the USA would not have gone to war over SE Asia

In addition attacking the USA insured the Russians that they didn’t have to worry about Japan’s treaty with Germany and aiding Germany by attacking Russia so the Russians were able to bring their Siberian divisions in to defeat the Germans at Stalingrad


41 posted on 06/10/2012 8:12:38 AM PDT by uncbob (R SIBERIAN DIVISIONS TO DEFEAT THE Germans at Stailgrad)
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To: All

Look at the difference for coal production in 1937.

United States = 451,223,000 metric tonnes

Japan = 45,258,000 metric tonnes


42 posted on 06/10/2012 8:40:46 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: SamAdams76

The worst possible scenario would be one ending with Japan in control of Hawaii and possible control of Australia. However I would have to doubt if the taking of Australia would even be possible based on its large size and with China being the main priority for the Army. An invasion of the US mainland would not be possible, those same marine divisions storming beaches, would be stationed on the west coast for defense (I for one would not want to charge beaches on entrenched marines). Shipyards on the West Coast would be rendered useless, by attacks or threat of attack. Japan would also probably hit Panama to knock out the canal.

Our submarine forces would continue to wreck havoc on Japanese shipping until they had no forward areas to stage from, and any damage they would inflict would be pretty much permanent.

Germany would still fall. Japan would be facing holding island bases while their supply networks were over-extended. At some point the US would have naval superiority and force a confrontation with the JVN. Any remaining forces would be hunted down with airborne radar.

The Japanese failed to upgrade much of their military during the war, it is doubtful they would have the opportunity do so when faced with shipping problems even with their victories.

After US operations and landings in the south of France there would be little need for a large naval presence in the Atlantic and much of those forces would be moved to the Pacific.

Facing another long drawn out campaign the Japanese might have been able to secure some sort of peace (without an unconditional surrender), if they would be wise enough to see it (I doubt the Japanese military which pretty much ruled at that time would have been).

So more of the same, an island hopping campaign 2 years later than when we started, probably ending with nukes once we got Tinian


43 posted on 06/10/2012 9:41:25 AM PDT by Brellium ("Thou shalt not shilly shally!" Aron Nimzowitsch)
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To: moonshot925
It is important to note that the United States produced 418 times more petroleum than Japan in 1937.

Why is that important to know?
44 posted on 06/10/2012 9:41:42 AM PDT by caveat emptor (Zippity Do Dah)
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To: moonshot925

The first A6M Zero prototype went to the test airfield in an oxcart - using trucks on Japan’s unpaved roads tended to damage the aircraft. California alone had more paved roads and more railroad than Japan. In American we would have called that a clue.

The Japanese went to war with us because they imagined that we would not fight. That difference in petrol production was one of the reasons they went to war. They wanted to “unite” (i.e. conquer) all of SE Asia and grab the resources for themselves.


45 posted on 06/10/2012 9:57:37 AM PDT by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: moonshot925

Interesting set of opinions.

I think something that is partially being left out of this is that the Japanese home islands have almost no natural resources. Few minerals, oil, gas, coal, etc. Even farmland is in short supply to support the population.

Japan cannot possibly exist as an industrialized modern nation based strictly on its own resources. It must bring in resources from elsewhere.

Like anybody else, they have the choice of taking resources by force (which has a cost of its own) or trade for them.

The problem is that in the 1930s nobody much wanted to buy what Japan had to sell, generally for protectionist reasons. If they couldn’t sell stuff, they wouldn’t have money to buy what they needed. The invasion of China was to a considerable extent a search for markets.

So in 1941 the Japanese had a very real dilemma: Option A - retreat out of China to the empire or even to the home islands. They would be unable to support a modern military, leaving them at the mercy of any power that still had one. They might not even be able to feed their whole population.

Option B - they could strike for an expanded empire large enough to provide both the resources and the markets they needed to support their military and industry.

They were aware Option B was a huge gamble, but to their minds Option A wasn’t even a gamble, just a guarantee of slow or fast decline back to powerlessness.

With B they had a chance, with A none. It’s difficult for me to argue with their analysis given the situation at the time.

Japan has done well since WWII, but that’s because the USA and the rest of world is willing to buy what they have to sell.


46 posted on 06/10/2012 11:02:39 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Thumper1960

“If the Japanese still see themselves as superior to everyone else, why do they seem not to express it as in the past and why the seeming ‘’worship’’ of sorts of things (and sometimes people of American descent) American?”

Although over the years I have had considerable interaction with the Japanese at the business level and my experiences correlate with my comment, this is not an original thought by me. Actually there have been lots of books and articles written about this. So, if this is something you are really interested in you can find all the information you want just by doing a little Googling. I think you will find your journey most interesting :)


47 posted on 06/10/2012 4:56:13 PM PDT by snoringbear (Government is the Pimp,)
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To: snoringbear

Yep, i am intereste in the subject.
Why do I get the impression you know I will discover some things are not as they appear to be.
Rhetorical, I know.


48 posted on 06/10/2012 7:28:33 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

The Japanese missed the really important target in Hawaii: oil storage facilities.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

I have ‘always’ thought they left the storage tanks alone because they believed we would have turned tail and run back to the West Coast, and they could steamed back into a pretty decent Naval and Air facility with fuel in place.


49 posted on 06/10/2012 8:01:00 PM PDT by xrmusn (6/98 Let's start from scratch by voting ALL incumbents out.)
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To: xrmusn

They must have calculated that the U.S. would destroy the facilities before we left. Capturing the Phillipines, Wake and other western Pacific outposts was of much less strategic value than Hawaii. Without U.S. control of Hawaii, Australia is pretty much out of the War, the western Aleutians cannot be held and the U.S. starts the War on it’s own goal line.


50 posted on 06/11/2012 3:52:45 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (The Democratic Party strongly supports full civil rights for necro-Americans!)
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