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To: Cronos
Not to mention that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth conquered and ruled large parts of Russia from 1380 (not by coincidence, the year that the Russian first succeeded in defeating the Mongols but were thereby weakened against military incursions from the west) and it took 400 years to get back those ares from Polish rule.

Poland ruled some parts of Russian for centuries longer (1380 - 1762/1795) than Russia ever ruled parts of Poland (1762/1795 to 1918, the same period that Austria and Germany ruled the other 2/3 of Poland!)

Also, people still remember the Polish massacres in Galich and Kostroma, north of Moscow, as part of the 1610 takeover of Russia.

Poland has been pretty successful in getting Western acceptance of their one-sided presentation of history, when it is far more symmetrical over time than most people know.

13 posted on 06/13/2012 3:07:07 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
well, technically there was no "Russia" but "russias" -- even the Tsar's title was "Tsar of the Russias" -- while it was Muscowy which conquered the various Rus entities

Remember that the Muscowite ruler slaughterd the people of Novgorod and eradicated the language of the Ukrainians and Białorussians

The lands to the west of Muscowy -- the Białorussian and Western Ukrainian lands were not and are not Russian but Ruthenian, or more properly one branch of the East slavs separate from Muscowy

19 posted on 06/15/2012 8:51:49 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
well, technically there was no "Russia" but "russias" -- even the Tsar's title was "Tsar of the Russias" -- while it was Muscowy which conquered the various Rus entities

Remember that the Muscowite ruler slaughterd the people of Novgorod and eradicated the language of the Ukrainians and Białorussians

The lands to the west of Muscowy -- the Białorussian and Western Ukrainian lands were not and are not Russian but Ruthenian, or more properly one branch of the East slavs separate from Muscowy

20 posted on 06/15/2012 8:52:04 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
the same period that Austria and Germany ruled the other 2/3 of Poland!)

Well, remember this -- the partitions were not equal, the Muscowites took the largest share

Remember again that just a few decades earlier the Muscowites had demolished much of the Russian lands like Nowgorod etc. -- well, to be fair this was Ivan IV's doing, and he was equally brutal to his own people

you talk of Soligalich etc. but the numbers don't match

Also, the Polish-Muscowite war was to a large extent supported by various Muscowite boyars and the idea was mooted of a Polish-Russian union, which could have happened if not for Zygmunt III Waza -- his son, Władisław was in fact declared Tsar, remember.

21 posted on 06/16/2012 5:50:59 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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