Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is this the hand of John the Baptist?...
UK Daily Mail ^ | June 15, 2012 | Chris Brooke

Posted on 06/15/2012 6:12:49 AM PDT by C19fan

When archaeologists claimed to have found the bones of John the Baptist amid the ruins of an ancient Bulgarian monastery experts were understandably sceptical. But carbon dating tests carried out at Oxford University have provided scientific evidence to support the extraordinary claim. A knucklebone has been dated to the 1st Century AD - a time when the revered Jewish prophet is believed to have lived.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Religion
KEYWORDS: bulgaria; godsgravesglyphs; johnthebaptist
Amazing if true.
1 posted on 06/15/2012 6:13:01 AM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: C19fan

My uncle Sol lived around that time too .. I think it’s him.


2 posted on 06/15/2012 6:16:14 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan
‘However, the result from the metacarpal hand bone is clearly consistent with someone who lived in the early first century AD. Whether that person is John the Baptist is a question that we cannot yet definitely answer and probably never will.

What the heck. Let's go ahead and revere it anyway.

3 posted on 06/15/2012 6:20:41 AM PDT by Constitutionalist Conservative (I'm a constitutionalist, not a libertarian. Huge difference.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knarf
My uncle Sol lived around that time too .. I think it’s him.

That was my first thought. Just because the bone carbon dates to the 1st century, and some unfounded claims by archaeologists about John the Baptist's bones being found in a monastery, we now jump to the conclusion that this may be his bone? Give me a break. It's more likely it's an ancestor of TV's Monk.

4 posted on 06/15/2012 6:23:14 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Pleaze.......................


5 posted on 06/15/2012 6:32:55 AM PDT by ducttape45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Is the scull missing? That would be the first clue I would look for.


6 posted on 06/15/2012 6:34:52 AM PDT by keat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bcsco
The older I get, the more I notice things I never bothered to see before.

Lately, (last 3 or 4 years) it seems there is a lot of reporting, news, articles, essays and et cetera's that have pretty much nothing to do with anything, or is pure speculation about a matter or a person.

This falls into that category.

So what if it IS JTB's hand ... and .. ?

I'm tiring of words that go nowhere or worse ... are intended to go nowhere.

Barrooms are FULL of arguments about nothing or stupid shit.

7 posted on 06/15/2012 6:36:50 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: keat
It's a knucklebone. It apparently came from Jerusalem in a marble reliquary box with the name of John the Baptist inscribed on it. We must all remember, me most of all: reading the article is our friend.
8 posted on 06/15/2012 6:38:42 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

I don’t know which is sadder, that some people will be all to willing to believe that these are the bones of John the Baptist or that several of the readers who responded to that article believe that dinosaurs can be carbon dated....


9 posted on 06/15/2012 6:40:24 AM PDT by JoeDetweiler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

It’s the hand of John the Lutheran (LCMS).


10 posted on 06/15/2012 6:41:43 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: knarf
So what if it IS JTB's hand ... and .. ?

Exactly. We're supposed to worship Christ, not some remnant of a human, or a remnant that may have been related to his ministry. Shroud of Turin for instance, the holy grail... Not to mention these ceaseless images of Mary that show up in bagels, pieces of bread, dog turds or wherever. Crying or bleeding statues? Sheesh.

11 posted on 06/15/2012 6:58:49 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: PJ-Comix; Charles Henrickson; Cletus.D.Yokel
It’s the hand of John the Lutheran (LCMS).

Who preceded Charles the Lutheran (LCMS)...

12 posted on 06/15/2012 7:00:20 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: keat

***Is the skull missing? That would be the first clue I would look for.***

That would probably be in Rome or Venice. When the Crusaders sacked Constantinople they brought back THREE HEADS of John the Baptist.


13 posted on 06/15/2012 7:00:45 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: C19fan; SunkenCiv

These relics were the subject of a NatGeo hour long show.
They were found in a box below what would have been an altar in the ruins of an old church (400AD-500AD). Based on that location, some inscriptions found at the site and the carbon dating, there is reason to be comfortable with the theory.

Being placed below the altar at that time would have meant the reliquary was in a place of veneration. I hope it is true..


14 posted on 06/15/2012 7:01:15 AM PDT by cardinal4 (Do I really need a /s tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

Wow. Nasty post. And I think you know by now that Catholics do not worship relics.

You’d hate Italy: my favorite relic was the tongue of a saint I came across in either Bologna or Assisi. Long time ago but it raised even my relic-accustomed eyes.


15 posted on 06/15/2012 7:07:10 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

Eyebrows.


16 posted on 06/15/2012 7:07:45 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

I read the article. There’s nothing beyond speculation that this reliquary and bones came from Jerusalem. In fact, speculation is all we can engage in at this far-removed date, there not being sufficient evidence to go on.

In any event. Even if it were the bone of John the Baptist, it’s nothing to worship. We worship God and His son Jesus Christ. Any other worship is idolatry. It shouldn’t even be revered. Held in respect perhaps as we do our ancestors, honored for what it is, but not revered, and certainly not worshiped.


17 posted on 06/15/2012 7:08:38 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

OK, give me the Catholic bit of dogma that says we must “worship” relics.

The goofball I responded to in my original post wanted to know if the “scull” was missing.


18 posted on 06/15/2012 7:11:27 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

I was in no way nasty. It was an honest response to all this silliness about relics and remnants of Christianity being given such reverence. It detracts, even replaces for many, the true faith in Christ. We focus far to much on such triviality, taking our focus away from our faith and duty to Him who has saved us.

His Word is what sustains us. It is His Word that lives. Not these relics of the past.


19 posted on 06/15/2012 7:13:53 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein
OK, give me the Catholic bit of dogma that says we must “worship” relics.

No, you show me the post where I referred to Catholics. I never said anything about the Catholic faith. It's you who've brought Catholicism into the discussion.

I write of anyone, of any faith, who places importance to their faith in any of these remnants. It shows how weak their faith really is.

My posts to you speak for themselves. I don't need to add to them. Nor do I need to justify them.

20 posted on 06/15/2012 7:20:54 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: bcsco
First post, nasty. Second and third, dishonest.

Remnants of Christianity, indeed!

21 posted on 06/15/2012 8:04:25 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

You need to limit your coffee intake. I said nothing nasty, nor dishonest. You fail to understand the difference between honoring those “remnants of Christianity”, and revering/worshiping them as many do (and not just limited to Catholics) who flock to crying or bleeding statues, over zealously “believe” in such things as the shroud of Turin being “miraculous”, and on, and on... And that’s what I’m arguing against.

But then, you seem to take this personally, and that’s your mistake, not mine. I’ve been very clear, and honest in my belief. I’ve not criticized a church, but people who are weak, and fall into idolatry over such things, in order to buttress their weakness. As for me...

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.

On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.


22 posted on 06/15/2012 8:24:58 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

“When the Crusaders sacked Constantinople they brought back THREE HEADS of John the Baptist.”

JTB had three heads? Wow! He must have looked like the 3-headed giant from Monty Python’s Holy Grail movie. /silly


23 posted on 06/15/2012 10:38:31 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: bcsco
I came on this thread to read an interesting story about an archaeological excavation in Bulgaria. Within minutes, several of you guys changed the story to “worshiping” relics. I thought that was stupid and bigoted.

And since you are the one who has written 2 long paragraphs, followed by a hymn for God's sake, I'd say I'm not the one to take a chill pill, lol.

24 posted on 06/15/2012 11:03:15 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

You’re the one who started the argument with me. That’s all you did was argue, beyond distorting my words and calling me dishonest, while I never made one, single, personal comment about you. So, you’re the one who needs to chill out.

But I’ll admit you did get one thing right. That hymn was for God’s sake.

I stand by my remarks, you don’t like them, or me, too bad. Don’t converse with me in the future.


25 posted on 06/15/2012 11:11:38 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

Read your original post #11 and tell me if that was honest or polite. You actually put the words “Mary” (Mother of God or did you really mean Mary Astor?) and “dog turd” in the same sentence. I found it offensive. Still do. Bye-ee!


26 posted on 06/15/2012 11:20:05 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: miss marmelstein

You are such a misguided soul. Wearing your feelings on your sleeve as you do, I wonder how you cope with many things discussed on this forum.

My point, since you can’t fathom it, is that those people who jump to conclusions about seeing Mary in bread, bagles, weeping/bleeding statues, yes, even dog turds (don’t think that couldn’t, wouldn’t happen), are the ones defaming Mary, not me. I’m the messenger. My bringing her name up with dog turds in the same sentence was cynicism, showing how irrational these people are, and how they are the ones being irreverent. But that’s too much for your illogical mind to understand.

Was I being honest? Absolutely. It’s what I believe, and have the right to say. I’ll not back away from it nor feel the need to defend it. Was it polite? I see no disrespect in what I wrote. I wasn’t disrespecting Mary, I was disrespecting those who do. So, if I was impolite, they are the ones who should be offended. But then again, maybe that’s why you ARE offended...

Bye, bye.


27 posted on 06/15/2012 11:33:32 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: knarf
The older I get, the more I notice things I never bothered to see before. Lately, (last 3 or 4 years) it seems there is a lot of reporting, news, articles, essays and et cetera's that have pretty much nothing to do with anything, or is pure speculation about a matter or a person. This falls into that category. So what if it IS JTB's hand ... and .. ? I'm tiring of words that go nowhere or worse ... are intended to go nowhere. Barrooms are FULL of arguments about nothing or stupid shit.

A lot of it is code. Secret society groups talking to each other, marking dates or plans, by invoking symbolism they learned down in the crypt by candlelight.

It's pathetic, but they get off on it.

28 posted on 06/15/2012 12:45:32 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Talisker

Well, the least they could do is show me the secret handshake or sumthin’


29 posted on 06/15/2012 2:10:57 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: cardinal4; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks cardinal4. Regardless of the age of the bones, the identity of the deceased is indeterminable, short of finding a cache of undisturbed burials (bone boxes) containing the remains of members of his family, or maybe the rest of the man himself.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


30 posted on 06/15/2012 4:13:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Well, I for one think it is likely to BE the bones of John the Baptist.

After all, it was ‘found in a box below what would have been an altar in the ruins of an old church (400AD-500AD). Based on that location, some inscriptions found at the site and the carbon dating, there is reason to be comfortable with the theory, Being placed below the altar at that time would have meant the reliquary was in a place of veneration. I hope it is true...”as post #14 said, (Cardinal14).

And since John is said to have foretold the coming of Christ before being beheaded on the orders of King Herod, with his head served up on a plate, and this is revealed to us now, well, it could be a significant message to the flock.

Not saying it is, but I certainly will consider it. When God speaks, people should listen;)


31 posted on 06/15/2012 9:06:39 PM PDT by Beowulf9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

Marvel is a better word. Catholics do not worship relics, but they do marvel at them. IOW, they marvel that something so old, and a remnant of a person who did mighty and holy deeds, is still around. That is not the same thing as worshipping. At least, that is how I see it. It’s like wearing a locket around your neck with a picture of your dead grandmother in it. A reminder.


32 posted on 06/15/2012 10:34:52 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: bcsco
But, if it were JTB knuckle the interesting thing about it would be the DNA, if able to be studied, as he was a relative of Jesus. It would be neat to be able to find out one was related to Jesus. Of course, this knuckle cannot be proved to be JTB.
33 posted on 06/15/2012 10:36:18 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: afraidfortherepublic

Yes, they marvel at it, but many also flock to the location, almost like a pilgrimage. That, to me, gets into the realm of reverence and worship.


34 posted on 06/16/2012 4:13:41 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Bellflower
It would be neat to be able to find out one was related to Jesus.

Therein lies the rub. The only possibility I can think of that may remotely contain Jesus' DNA would be the shroud of Turin, and it is still speculation in terms of being his real shroud. Without confirmed DNA belonging to Jesus or a relative, DNA off the knuckle would be useless.

35 posted on 06/16/2012 4:17:13 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Wow. John The Baptist had three heads. Who knew?

That must be the origin of the old saying “Why are you looking at me like I have three heads?”. Superstition. Kind of like Muslims hating dogs because one reputedly ran off with Mohammed’s head after decapitation.

You’d think they’d decide to stop decapitating people, but nooooo they’ve hated dogs for centuries instead.


36 posted on 06/16/2012 4:41:20 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: bcsco

Catholics don’t worship relics. Nor do relics become a substitution for Him. But you knew that..


37 posted on 06/16/2012 7:38:41 AM PDT by cardinal4 (Do I really need a /s tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Well, one of him as a teen, young man and then finally as an old man. Three times the proof it was Jean Baptiste!


38 posted on 06/16/2012 7:43:45 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (i a m t h e m a r g i n o f e r r e r)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: cardinal4

I never stated reverence for relics was part of the Catholic faith, or any other Christian faith. I was criticizing those of any faith who need the crutch of relics and icons to buttress their faith.

If you look at the stories of faces of Mary “seen” in all sorts of things, or weeping and bleeding statues of Mary (or Christ), and the people who flock to them, or focus on them, then it’s painfully obvious that some Catholics, as well as some in other Christian beliefs, put a degree of reverence in such things.

This doesn’t reflect negatively on Mary, or Christ, but on those “believers” who need something beyond their belief to bolster their faith. They’re our contemporary “Doubting Thomases.

I stand by what I wrote. I make no claim against a religion or its beliefs. I am highly cynical, however, when I see people make such an issue over things that are relevant of idolatry.


39 posted on 06/16/2012 8:12:01 AM PDT by bcsco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson