Massive Gold Trove Sparks Archeological Dispute

Spiegel Online ^ | 21 June 2012 | Matthias Schulz

[Theoria]

A 3,300-year-old treasure trove of gold found in northern Germany has stumped German archeologists. One theory suggests that traders transported it thousands of miles from a mine in Central Asia, but other experts are skeptical.

Archeologists in Germany have an unlikely new hero: former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. They have nothing but praise for the cigar-smoking veteran Social Democratic politician.

Why? Because it was Schröder who, together with Russian leader Vladimir Putin, pushed through a plan to pump Russian natural gas to Western Europe. For that purpose, an embankment 440 kilometers (275 miles) long and up to 30 meters (100 feet) wide had to be created from Lubmin, a coastal resort town in northeastern Germany, to Rehden in Lower Saxony near the northwestern city of Bremen.

The result has been a veritable cornucopia of ancient discoveries. The most beautiful find was made in the Gessel district of Lower Saxony, where 117 pieces of gold were found stacked tightly together in a rotten linen cloth. The hidden treasure is about 3,300 years old.

The 1.8 kilograms (4 pounds) of gold, which was found in a field, consists of some jewelry, but primarily spirals of gold wire, which are tied together in chains consisting of 10 spirals each. This isn't jewelry, but an ancient form of gold bullion.

Traveling the Continent

When Johanna Wanka, the Lower Saxony science minister, unveiled the treasure to the press in February, the story became even more surprising. She explained that testing done at the University of Hanover had revealed that the gold had come from a mine in Central Asia.

[Theoria]

Germany, gold, trade.

[43north]

There were a lot of events that happened long ago that were never written down so there is no record, thus no “history” about it.

The older I get the more I realize that there is more that is unknown than is known. Which is good because I’ve forgotten a lot of stuff...

[knarf]

CRS disease

[Adder]

Sooooooooo, what was it doing in Germany that long ago? When the Romans got there 1000yrs later, they were pretty backwards...Why would they have gold?

[Adder]

Sooooooooo, what was it doing in Germany that long ago? When the Romans got there 1000yrs later, they were pretty backwards...Why would they have gold?

[DManA]

There is plenty of evidence that human greed led to globalized trade more than 3,000 years ago.

These ancients worked their butts off and risked life and limb trading. But all this reporter thinks is worth noting about them is they were greedy.

[Free Vulcan]

No kidding. To put this in perspective this was the time of the Egyptian, Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian and early Greek kingdoms. How that ended up in the sticks of Germany is a good question.

Here is a map of that period:

http://www.worldhistorymaps.info/images/East-Hem_1300bc.jpg

[Adder]

Great map. Thanks!

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks Theoria. Whoops!!! To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[BIGLOOK]

1.8 kilograms of gold is a treasure trove for sure.....in my backyard but it ain’t massive.

[blam]

Tocharians
(Knights Of The Long Swords)

[DuncanWaring]

Not to be confused with (Night Of The Long Knives).

[wildbill]

Simple answer. This is Conan’s buried loot.

[gleeaikin]

There is a mistake in the article referring to 2nd century BC. They should have said 12th century BC. This was the time of the “Sea People” who may have been Myceneans. They mention Jason of the Golden Fleece, who probably traveled to the far east of the Black Sea. These myths were written about by Homer. Colchis was there and may have been visited by envoy’s of Sesostris II (Egypt)around 1900 BC. I believe there are written records about that. Colchicine is a product of crocuses found in that area and has medicinal properties. Paintings from Santorini/Akrotiri which experienced a great volcanic eruption around 1600 BC show these “sacred?” crocuses. So actually although there are gaps, there are also written and artistic records of use.

[SunkenCiv]

More than half the gold ever mined has been mined since 1960, but the whole pile ever mined in history would make about an 80 ft cube. :’)

[commonguymd]

I was taught that. I have heard it. Read it. Googled it. I still don’t believe it. A lot less than the Washington monument to put into perspective. Walk into countless pawn shops, jewelry stores, ect. and I can’t fathom that there is only that much in circulation.

[SunkenCiv]

Crom must be pleased.

[SunkenCiv]

Yeah, the goldbug nuts can’t believe it either, or just deny that it’s important. That’s one of the problems with math, it gives the real answer and/or accurate estimates.

[commonguymd]

Still hard to comprehend. We have quite a bit on hand too. Not gold on paper but tangible gold. Have for years. Would make some nice bricks. I am one of millions that has some.

[SunkenCiv]

I don’t see anything about Jason in the story.

Colchis was said by Herodotus to have been settled by Egyptians because of their common practice of circumcision:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2527120/posts?page=44#44

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2555535/posts?page=16#16

The “Sea People” events in Egypt were not that long ago:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2545119/posts?page=8#8

Hey, maybe a related story:

Early Bronze Age battle site found on German river bank
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2723334/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Gold can be hammered into foils that are quite thin, and ancient monuments which were formerly allegedly covered with gold have A) been stripped, generally by other ancient groups, and B) probably didn’t cover the entire interiors of palaces and temples (paint was the rest; “if the lion’s skin won’t reach, you must patch it out with the fox’.”). :’)

[gleeaikin]

The article refers to voyage of the “Argonauts” which would be Jason, in the Black Sea in search of the golden fleece.

Sources I have read also mention the African related curly hair of the people of that region.

Regarding the Sea People, a number of sources I have encountered refer to that period about 3,300 years ago. The most recent I have seen is from Atlas of Ancient Egypt by John Baines and Jaromir Malck (1982), a beautiful book I might add. Page 99, “Some of the reliefs at Medinet Habu are not only artistically but also historically important, because they record historical events of the reign of Ramesses III [page 36, 1194-1163 BC]:...The exterior of the temple: Campaigns against the Libyans, Asiatics and the ‘sea peoples’ are shown on the north wall.”

Thanks for the Bronze Ate link.

[gleeaikin]

I decided to Google “Medinet Habu sea people” and found a lot of material there. This link was profusely illustrated and was the 3rd or 4th down on the list. It looks as though the sea people in some of the maritime battle scenes are wearing a sort of horned helmet. Wonder if some of the sea people settled in Scandinavia and became Vikings in later centuries.

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Medinet_Habu/Medinet_Habu.htm

[SunkenCiv]

Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History (sec XII)
http://www.varchive.org/ce/theses.htm

260. “Invasion of Egypt by the archaic Greeks” in the twelfth century is a fallacy. The Greeks who participated in the wars of Ramses III and who are shown as changing sides, were at first soldiers of Chabrias, assisting Egypt, and then troops of Iphicrates, opposing Ramses III.

261. Agesilaus, the King of Sparta, had already arrived in Egypt in the days of Nectanebo I (Ramses III), [Tachos (Ramses IV)] and Ramses III, who referred to his arrival, mentioned also his notably small stature.

262. The Pereset, with whom Ramses III was at war, were the Persians of Artaxerxes II under the satrap Pharnambazus, and not the Philistines.

263. The war described by Ramses III, and by Diodorus and other classical authors (the war of Nectanebo 1), is one and the same war of 374 BCE...

267. The Egyptian bas-reliefs of the temple at Medinet Habu show Sidonian ships and Persian carriages comparable to the pictures of ships and carriages on the Sidonian coins minted during the years of the invasion.

268. The bas-reliefs of Medinet Habu show the reform of Iphicrates in lengthening the swords and spears and reducing the armor intended for defense.

269. The Jewish military colony at Elephantine still existed in 374 BCE and participated in the defense of the eastern border of Egypt. These professional soldiers were called Marienu by Ramses III, which is the Aramaic Marenu...

271. The Greek letters of classical form incised on the tiles of Ramses III during the process of manufacture (found at Tell-el-Yahudieh in the Delta) present no problem. They are Greek letters of the fourth century.

272. The inlay work and glazing of the tiles of Ramses III are innovations introduced from Persia...

276. The so-called Twenty-first Dynasty flourished not in the twelfth-eleventh century, but in the fifth-fourth century; it was established by the Persians as a dynasty of priestly princes in the oases of the Libyan desert for strategic purposes. It existed before, during and after the Twentieth (Twenty-ninth and Thirtieth) Dynasty...