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Making/Storing Gasoline
self ^ | July 3, 2012 | knarf

Posted on 07/03/2012 7:43:58 AM PDT by knarf

It's my understanding that the whole oil refining operation is,


TOPICS: Education; Miscellaneous; Reference; Science
KEYWORDS: gasoline; kerosene
essentially adding heat and separating the different products from the crude.

Now, I know it can't be THAT simplistic, but, at least I think it is on that line of reasoning.

So;

I know storing gasoline for a future time would require a relatively simple, but at greater labor and cost.

Because I use #2 heating oil (basically diesel), is there some way this product can be acceptably home refined to fire up an infernal combustion engine?

Please ping any oil people for some insight on this, thanx.

1 posted on 07/03/2012 7:44:11 AM PDT by knarf
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To: knarf

I meant an infernal frustration engine.


2 posted on 07/03/2012 7:46:21 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf

You can burn Home Heating oil in a Diesel Vehicle (was that your question?)


3 posted on 07/03/2012 7:50:31 AM PDT by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: knarf
It would be more practical to have a vehicle with a diesel engine. Some burn processed motor oil and used french fry oil for fuel. Don't use both at the same time as it will destroy your injectors and pump with the sludge generated.
4 posted on 07/03/2012 7:50:37 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: knarf
Diesel to gasoline at home for your infernal engine?

You're gonna need a bigger boat.

5 posted on 07/03/2012 7:50:37 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: knarf

There is no simple way to make gasoline from #2 fuel oil at home and shortcuts will lead to amazing house fires. Get a diesel powered car/truck


6 posted on 07/03/2012 7:56:02 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: knarf

People who do that usually have chemical engineering degrees and very expensive equipment.


7 posted on 07/03/2012 7:59:27 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: mountainlion

Yeah, I agree, but I don’t have one .. and because I drive a lot (thus think a lot, when not listening to Wilkow .. etc.), I wondered about might be involved.


8 posted on 07/03/2012 7:59:27 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: knarf

Refining involves heat AND a catalyst to divide up the materials.

Diesel is already refined so, there is no “gasoline” left in it.

Home refining should be left to the professionals (meth-heads!).

You can add a stabilizer to gasoline that will let you keep it for up to a year or so. After that, GFL


9 posted on 07/03/2012 8:00:07 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: knarf

Usually, what I do is take gasoline, put it in a frying pan, and bring it to a rolling boil over an open flame. With one hand, open a mason jar and with the other, strike a lighter to chase the fumes into the jar. Then seal the jar and leave in sunlight.


10 posted on 07/03/2012 8:03:26 AM PDT by Lazamataz (People who resort to Godwin's Law are just like Hitler.)
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To: knarf

Are you looking for emergency mobility in times of crisis ?

(I’m guessing you’re assuming they’ll deliver home heating oil even if they can’t supply vehicle diesel and gas - that of course will be a political issue)

I’d suggest picking up an “older” diesel vehicle - one without the sophisticated super high pressure injection used in the last 10 years - the new ones require really clean fuel. The old Mercedes and some Dodge and Ford trucks could run on home heating oil.


11 posted on 07/03/2012 8:05:26 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: knarf
Oil refining is done using a 'cat cracker,' or catalyst, to break up the long-chain hydrocarbons that make the heavy components of crude oil and create more of the shorter-chain compounds that make up gasoline. Building a homebrew catalysis reactor for refining petroleum is beyond the home hobbyist, unless you happen to be a chemical engineer with access to a lot of cool tools and materials.

However, you can burn the no. 2 oil straight up in a diesel engine. You can also burn kerosene straight up in a diesel, and if you pre-heat it to drive up the vapor pressure (wrap a few coils of copper fuel line around the exhaust manifold) you can burn kerosene in a low-compression gasoline engine. If you choose this latter option, count on re-jetting your carb (don't try this with a fuel-injected engine unless you can also reprogram the E-prom for kerosene). Also count on hard starting, reduced power, and ugly emissions. If I were going to try to run a car on kero, I would build it as a dual-fuel system that could start and run on gas until it was warmed up, then switch to kerosene.

12 posted on 07/03/2012 8:05:35 AM PDT by Oberon (Big Brutha Be Watchin'.)
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To: knarf
It is not that simple. You are referring to fractional distillation. That will give you various grades of burnable liquids, but they are not the same thing as gasoline. If you try to use one of them in your engine, it will burn up and seize. (It will run for a little while.) Gasoline contains chemical additives that make it useable in an engine. (It used to contain lead to lubricate the valve guides, but they have something different now.)

Also, in refineries there is a process called "Cat Cracking." (Catalytic breaking of long string molecules into shorter ones.) It allows them to chose whether to produce more diesel, or more gasoline, or more of whatever. They can tweak the process and convert more of the oil into whatever they want the most.

If you are looking to develop an energy source post financial collapse, I would advise you to look at natural gas. You don't have to refine it, you can use it straight off the well head. (or pipe) It would be best if you can remove the water from it, but it will work even if you don't. There are kits available on E-Bay to convert a gasoline powered engine to run on both gasoline AND natural gas. (Either/Or)

The only down side to it is that you have compress it into pressure vessels to hold your fuel, and those vessels have to be able to handle pressures in the 4,000 PSI range, such as an oxygen bottle from an Oxy-Acetyelene welding rig. But don't put natural gas into an Oxygen bottle unless steps have been taken to get rid of the Oxygen in it! Even then, don't do it while our current government is still functional!

I am in the process of setting up a natural gas filling station, and I have already bought a duel fuel car, and a kit to convert another one. Gasoline and oil often have to be trucked to places, but natural gas can arrive by pipeline as quickly as you can pump it. In an economic collapse, I expect the gas and oil shipments to stop before the natural gas quits coming out of the pipe.

13 posted on 07/03/2012 8:07:23 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: knarf

The temperatures and pressures, plus catalysts and lots of sulfuric acid makes cracking oil to gas a factory operation. Good idea, though!


14 posted on 07/03/2012 8:07:51 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: Lazamataz
I applaud the American ingenuity that has provided you with the appropriate prosthetic devices that enable you to see, type, breath and ... hmmmm .. live .... after storing your first Mason jar.

But it's Independence Day and I'm off work for a couple of days .... I'll give it a try ...

Thanx Laz, I know you wouldn't steer a guy wrong.

15 posted on 07/03/2012 8:09:44 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; knarf

I DO have a Chemical Engineering degree, and you can’t do this at home. The biggest problem (as noted above) is that the lighter gasoline is already gone. That means you’d have to further crack the oil. Not a simple process.

The other part of the process that you’ve described is fractional distillation. This part maybe could be done at home (ask moonshiners), but not on your heating oil.


16 posted on 07/03/2012 8:10:56 AM PDT by Rio (Tempis fugit.)
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To: knarf

Diesel stores much better than gasoline, if kept at a relatively low, stable, temperature and periodically “stirred.”

There are also home bio-fuel set ups that make a reasonable amount of diesel out of farm waste. They are not quite econmic (although close), but would be very economic if the wheels feel off society.


17 posted on 07/03/2012 8:11:10 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: knarf

Buying a diesel vehicle would be the easiest solution. Running vegetable oil is illegal in some places with quite large fines. There is no free lunch when the government is involved.


18 posted on 07/03/2012 8:11:25 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: knarf

Making bio-diesel is rather easy (and far safer). Gasoline, however, is much more precise (and dangerous).

Find yourself an old diesel Mercedes or VW (avoid the diesel Oldsmobile as they were horrible).

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html


19 posted on 07/03/2012 8:11:31 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Jewbacca

sorry, misread your post.

Get a car/generator with a diesel engine.


20 posted on 07/03/2012 8:13:19 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: knarf

Here is another idea that was big in WWII during with all the rationing. A wood-gas vehicle.

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html


21 posted on 07/03/2012 8:14:49 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: knarf
It's my understanding that the whole oil refining operation is essentially adding heat and separating the different products from the crude.

No, it might have been that way back in the 1920s, but a modern refinery is far more complicated, that is only one step out of very many process units.

I know storing gasoline for a future time would require a relatively simple, but at greater labor and cost.

Gasoline does not store well for extended periods of time. In addition to the ethanol that absorbs water over time, gasoline contains some components that are going to evaporate out as well.

Because I use #2 heating oil (basically diesel), is there some way this product can be acceptably home refined to fire up an infernal combustion engine?

Do you have a home supply of crude oil you want to refine into diesel? Or are you looking to make diesel from another oil product?

Are you looking for a disaster plan or a way to become more economic. If the later, you need to be concerned about taxes, for the revenuers will be concerned and they do give significant fines to those that avoid their excise tax on fuel.

22 posted on 07/03/2012 8:15:16 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: knarf

get yourself a diesel engine (I assume we are talking about being prepared for the zombie apocalypse)

you CAN actually make your own diesel fuel, and it looks surprisingly simple (many online instructions and youtube videos)

I can do anything once I see someone do it, so youtube videos have become my go-to for an incredible amount of this type of training material

skinning a dear, building storage, water filters, digging a well- I wish I could SAVE videos because when the zombie apocalypse comes I am assuming the ‘net will be down...


23 posted on 07/03/2012 8:15:16 AM PDT by Mr. K (OBAMA MUST BE STOPPED ROMNEY/GINGRICH)
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To: mountainlion

You have to learn to filter the oil of particles, as you cannot just pour it from the pan to the tank.

Creating gasoline is a distillation process. It’s not a process that you can easily do from home as the amount that an average person can create on his own would be very small.

Not to mention that it is also dangerous. Each gallon of gasoline, when pressurized is the equivalent of about 15 sticks of dynamite. You could easily, if you make a mistake, destroy the area that you are working it when trying to distill gasoline.

You’re far better off to store diesel in large storage tanks as diesel can keep for years, as I understand it. Whereas gasoline is really only good for a couple of months before it degrades to the point of uselessness for running vehicles.


24 posted on 07/03/2012 8:21:14 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Mr. K
I can do anything once I see someone do it...

Exactly!

Which is why I now can menstruate, molt my skin, catch updrafts to glide effortlessly for hours, breastfeed, dislocate my jaw to swallow the pig whole, hold my breath for hours as I lurk on the riverbed, give birth, skeletonize a cow in 5 minutes, heat up to 750 degrees during reentry, and cause enough shadow to form a partial eclipse.

25 posted on 07/03/2012 8:23:26 AM PDT by Lazamataz (People who resort to Godwin's Law are just like Hitler.)
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To: knarf
I use #2 heating oil (basically diesel), is there some way this product can be acceptably home refined to fire up an infernal combustion engine?

After reading through your responses to posts, I see you are after something different than I thought.

If you want to make gasoline out of heating oil, the answer is no, unless you are going to build a cracker, either thermal or catalytic. The diesel does not contain enough of the lighter hydrocarbon molecules necessary in basic gasoline. Those have already been removed from the crude oil stream during the refining process.

Also, as others have pointed out, modern gasoline contains some specific and necessary additives for your engine. If you got straight gasoline, as from the turn of the previous century, your modern car, if it would run, would only run for a while before becoming an expensive paperweight.

26 posted on 07/03/2012 8:25:54 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: knarf
I applaud the American ingenuity that has provided you with the appropriate prosthetic devices that enable you to see, type, breath and ... hmmmm .. live .... after storing your first Mason jar.

This is me grinning at that line....


27 posted on 07/03/2012 8:26:17 AM PDT by Lazamataz (People who resort to Godwin's Law are just like Hitler.)
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To: mnehring
There were still charcoal powered taxis in Japan in the early 1950s.
28 posted on 07/03/2012 8:27:31 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Jonty30
The new centrifuge systems remove particles down to half a micron. Heavy equipment operations sometimes dump the engine oil into the diesel storage tanks and use a good filtering system. Some old timers did dump oil right out of the engine into the fuel tank. There are some service bulletins that suggest doing so. Don't let is set in the tank over a month as stuff will settle out into the bottom of the tank.
29 posted on 07/03/2012 8:28:24 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: knarf

Sure, buy a diesel powered vehicle. Your fuel oil will burn just fine.


30 posted on 07/03/2012 8:29:47 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Mr. K

You can save YouTube videos and burn them to optical discs... do a bit of online research. Start by looking at Firefox browser plug-ins.


31 posted on 07/03/2012 8:30:54 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: knarf

You would be better off attacking the problem at a different angle. Try using a large distiller to make pure (200 proof)alcohol. You may have to use zeolite to remove the last traces of water.


32 posted on 07/03/2012 8:35:18 AM PDT by BipolarBob (I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.)
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To: knarf

You’re going to make a great news story someday. LOL


33 posted on 07/03/2012 8:37:56 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Lazamataz

That would explain you crispy appearance on occasion ...


34 posted on 07/03/2012 8:41:54 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: knarf

There’s probably not much you can do at home with the heating oil/diesel. But there’s nothing to stop you from buying a barrel of West Texas Crude and distilling it into the various -anes (hexane, heptane, octane) that make up gasoline. I don’t imagine it’s a very profitable venture but it is probably possible.

As long as the neighbors aren’t too snoopy and your building covenants allow for heavy industry.


35 posted on 07/03/2012 9:04:18 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Lazamataz

you too?


36 posted on 07/03/2012 9:20:03 AM PDT by Mr. K (OBAMA MUST BE STOPPED ROMNEY/GINGRICH)
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To: Lazamataz
“I can do anything once I see someone do it...”

“Exactly!

Which is why I now can menstruate, molt my skin, catch updrafts to glide effortlessly for hours, breastfeed, dislocate my jaw to swallow the pig whole, hold my breath for hours as I lurk on the riverbed, give birth, skeletonize a cow in 5 minutes, heat up to 750 degrees during reentry, and cause enough shadow to form a partial eclipse.”

You good!

You better when a Keyboard Alert precedes such abundant goodness.

;-)

37 posted on 07/03/2012 9:21:43 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Oberon; knarf
My father in WWII was in Australia for several years, and Indochina and Phillipines. He told me in great detail (naval engineer style) about the Aussie buses powered during the war with wood gases. A critical element to the powering of the vehicle was the job of a local boy or aborigine-- to pick out of the "cooker box" the charcoal created by the cooked raw original wood pieces and transfer them by a little shovel into the burner heater below. They rigged up a little seat on the back outside of the bus (with a shade from the sun-- hot damn job) for the "stoker".

Here is the principle behind this setup-- far safer than trying to make gasoline!!: Charcoal burning conversion kits, which are really wood gas generators, enjoyed a brief civilian and military niche market in England, Germany, Australia, the United States, and other countries up to and during World War II. Wood gas generators were used to power taxis in Korea as late as 1970.

A charcoal burner actually burns the gases produced by heated wood. The burner is a two part system: a closed chamber with chunks of wood in it, and a charcoal burner to heat the closed chamber and make the wood generate gases by a process called pyrolysis.

Flammable gases produced by pyrolysis are then routed to a carburetor of sorts, mixed with air, and burned in the engine’s combustion chambers. Once the wood in the closed chamber has produced gases and turned to charcoal, it is transferred to the charcoal burner to heat the next load of wood. Some charcoal-fueled cars were designed to be started on gasoline, and would then be switched to charcoal once the vehicle was underway.

38 posted on 07/03/2012 9:26:59 AM PDT by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Lazamataz

LOL. Sounds good. I’ve also found that you need to store the jars at night beside the wood fire. That way it stays warm- almost as good as the sun on a hot day.


39 posted on 07/03/2012 9:29:10 AM PDT by fini
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To: DiogenesLamp; knarf
If you are looking to develop an energy source post financial collapse, I would advise you to look at natural gas.

If natural gas wouldn't be practical in your situation, woodgas might be another alternative. There are lots of websites with instructions on how to modify a vehicle to run on wood or charcoal.

Also, while it's not practical on a large scale, ethanol can work on a small, home-scale, being that it's just fancy moonshine.


40 posted on 07/03/2012 9:53:29 AM PDT by Ellendra ("It's astounding how often people mistake their own stupidity for a lack of fairness." --Thunt)
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To: knarf

One thing you might consider is 100 LL AVGAS.

AVGAS is much more refined than the standard unleaded gasoline and lasts much longer.

There are several drawbacks:

The LL is “low lead” and thus you cannot use it a vehicle with catalytic converters. (my experience is the “low” part is a joke.)

No road tax so not legal to run on the road.

Going to the local airport and schlepping it in 5 gallon jugs.

Cost

But my “airboat” loved it.


41 posted on 07/03/2012 9:59:19 AM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Ellendra

I should add, both of those would require special modifications to your car. Check out some of the first automobile prototypes they often used fuels other than gasoline.


42 posted on 07/03/2012 9:59:41 AM PDT by Ellendra ("It's astounding how often people mistake their own stupidity for a lack of fairness." --Thunt)
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To: Ellendra
If natural gas wouldn't be practical in your situation, woodgas might be another alternative. There are lots of websites with instructions on how to modify a vehicle to run on wood or charcoal.

Also, while it's not practical on a large scale, ethanol can work on a small, home-scale, being that it's just fancy moonshine.

I agree. I actually looked at wood gas, and it is possible to use it. The only down side is that it takes a bit of constant attention, and it produces a lot of tar that won't do your engine any good.

There are some pretty good sites online that have plans for making some pretty good wood gas generators. (Like you said.)

43 posted on 07/03/2012 12:45:04 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
The only down side is that it takes a bit of constant attention, and it produces a lot of tar that won't do your engine any good.

Another very significant downside users should be aware of: The main combustion gas produced is carbon monoxide. Leaks in the system can be very dangerous to the user if inside a garage or other closed building.

44 posted on 07/06/2012 5:56:58 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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