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The Fourth of July is Coming Who Cares?
The Jewish Press ^ | July 1, 2012 | Tzvi Fishman

Posted on 07/04/2012 2:45:07 PM PDT by pavlova

Last week, The Jewish Press ran an article, “Reform and Orthodox Kids to Celebrate Fourth of July Together.” The stated goal of the celebration is “to strengthen the Jewish identity of the young people.”

Give me a break! Does anyone genuinely believe that celebrating the Fourth of July will strengthen Jewish identity? Yom HaAtzmaut is Independence Day for the Jews, not the 4th of July. Boker tov, my friends, but Israel is our nation, not America. How can you expect to strengthen Jewish identity by having Jewish kids celebrate a gentile country’s Independence Day? Even if you play “Hava Negilla” to remind the kids that they’re Jewish and have them dance a Hora, you are leading them astray, and in many cases, leading them into the arms of a shicksa or shagetz. After all, if they are Americans like everyone else, why not marry an America like everyone else? In America, everyone is equal, Jew and gentile alike. So why not marry a gentile? Why not get married to Sally Jane or Wendy Sue and watch the 4th of July fireworks together?

(Excerpt) Read more at jewishpress.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: america; israel; patriotism
Happy Fourth of July!
1 posted on 07/04/2012 2:45:17 PM PDT by pavlova
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To: pavlova

And just who are you?


2 posted on 07/04/2012 2:53:48 PM PDT by OldPossum ( "it's" is the contraction of either "it is" or "it has"; "its" is the possessive pronoun)
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To: pavlova

Are you bleepin’ kidding me? There would be no Israel without American Gentiles.


3 posted on 07/04/2012 3:02:00 PM PDT by HenpeckedCon (What pi$$es me off the most is that POS commie will get a State Funeral!)
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To: pavlova

Happy 4th of Joooooooooooooooooooooly! Maybe we Americans will fly the Star of David instead of Old Faded Glory—until it can be properly represented once again.


4 posted on 07/04/2012 3:04:01 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or tyranny)
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To: tflabo
The Gadsden Flag is most appropriate this July 4th:

or this:


5 posted on 07/04/2012 3:09:19 PM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: pavlova

A misguided attempt to try to stir up anti-American religious bigotry by portraying a (most probably fake, at least quite rare or uncommon) disloyal attitude. Suggest future postings focus instead on the many serious problems we all face together as Americans (or citizens of allied societies which value liberty and the Judeo-Christian Western Civilization or related principles). Thank you.


6 posted on 07/04/2012 3:11:14 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: pavlova
I agree with Chayim Goldberg, whose rebuttal to Tzvi Fishman begins thus:
"I respect your right to an opinion, Mr. Fishman, and admire your proud Zionism, but you are spewing chauvinism, encouraging ignorance, and being ungrateful to God for providing the world with a country that has singlehandedly saved more Jewish (as well as other people's lives) than any other country in history."
Surf over to the "Comments" following the article to read more.
7 posted on 07/04/2012 3:11:14 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: pavlova

Hope this is just an accident or musunderstanding. And not a misguided attempt to try to stir up anti-American religious bigotry by portraying a (most probably fake, at least quite rare or uncommon) disloyal attitude. Suggest future postings focus instead on the many serious problems we all face together as Americans (or citizens of allied societies which value liberty and the Judeo-Christian Western Civilization or related principles). We have enough problems right now without having to wade througgh this kind of garbage. Thank you.


8 posted on 07/04/2012 3:15:05 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: pavlova

American Jews are proud to celebrate the 4th of July. We are American’s first. Strange article.


9 posted on 07/04/2012 3:15:46 PM PDT by ncfool (OMG 2012)
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To: pavlova

Hope this is just an accident or musunderstanding. And not a misguided attempt to try to stir up anti-American religious bigotry by portraying a (most probably fake, at least quite rare or uncommon) disloyal attitude. Suggest future postings focus instead on the many serious problems we all face together as Americans (or citizens of allied societies which value liberty and the Judeo-Christian Western Civilization or related principles). We have enough problems right now without having to wade througgh this kind of “stuff.” Thank you.


10 posted on 07/04/2012 3:15:57 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: faithhopecharity

I apologize for the duplicate posting. Tried to use a little cellphone and must have hit the teenyweeny keys wrong. (Every Jewish person I know is intensely patriotic about USA. This article doesn’t reflect Jewish Americans at all. It is either an isolated idiot or a deliberate attempt to stir up bigotry. Suggest flushing it and moving on to rebuilding our defense forces and electing them a new Commander in Chief that they can respect and that respects American values, history, culture, faith traditions, and liberty. Now I’m done with this stupid article. I just hope this comment doesn’t double-post like the last one. Happy American Independence Day and a special thanks to any of our military that might read this!


11 posted on 07/04/2012 3:28:29 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: pavlova

What’s with all the Nazis on FR lately?


12 posted on 07/04/2012 3:30:55 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Maybe Stormfront didn’t pay their bills or their site is down for maintenance?


13 posted on 07/04/2012 3:35:39 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: pavlova

Its Independence day for all Americans.


14 posted on 07/04/2012 3:37:13 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: pavlova

My great grandmother was a descendant of a Declaration signer and my great grandfather was a Polish Jewish immigrant.


15 posted on 07/04/2012 3:41:55 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: cripplecreek
Good evening.

My great grandmother was a descendant of a Declaration signer and my great grandfather was a Polish Jewish immigrant.

Wow, somebody was trying to kill you and your family for generations.

5.56mm

16 posted on 07/04/2012 3:46:29 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: pavlova
Happy Fourth of July! Independence Day!

Damn n00b!

17 posted on 07/04/2012 3:53:35 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: pavlova

I have a book titled: “What the Church Owes the Jew” and I love it. This book goes back about 10 or 12 years.

I have another little booklet written back in the early 1900’s by Robert G. Lee, titled: “If I were a Jew.”

When I read the verses in the Gospel of John:”Jesus saith unto her; Woman, believe Me, the hour is cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain; nor yet a Jerusalem, worship the Father: Ye worship ye know not what: but we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father such to worship Him. God is a Spitit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:21-24)

Romans chapter 11 gives us good insight on “Israel finding salvation, the Gentiles being warned, and the Gentiles being blessed at the restoration of Israel.”


18 posted on 07/04/2012 4:05:10 PM PDT by Letmarch75
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To: pavlova
Apparently I need to rethink my support for Israel if this is the type of person they're turning out.

You're kids are a different species? Isn't that what muslims say about jews?

I have a place in my heart for the Jews without ever having met one just because they've had such a hard time historically with all the purges and the like.

Looks like I need to give that a lot more thought.

Happy Fourth everybody!

Watching "The Revolution" on netflix.

19 posted on 07/04/2012 4:06:01 PM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica ("We have prepared for the unbeliever, whips and chains and blazing fires!" Koran Sura 76:4)
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To: pavlova

There are several Jews who have married into our extended gentile family. One of the gentiles my nephew a proud United States Army officer who converted to Judaism to raise the kids in one faith. If captured in Afghanistan he can be executed equally for being a Jew, a soldier and an American. Being American is a state of mind so perhaps if a Zionist is too bigoted to reconcile love of America and their faith they are better off not being here. Most Americans are better then that.


20 posted on 07/04/2012 4:14:37 PM PDT by dog breath
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica
Happy Fourth everybody!

"Fourth"? Awesome! That must mean it ain't the "Third" or the "Fifth"! A reason to celebrate! And have sales at Lowes and stuff!

21 posted on 07/04/2012 4:17:11 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: M Kehoe

My great grandmother’s grandfather and his brother both signed up as union soldiers in the civil war but the brother switched sides.


22 posted on 07/04/2012 4:21:48 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: pavlova
ROTFLMAO!

The short comments section on this person's “opinion” is also interesting, and generally not supportive of this persons opinion.

It might just mean that Israel has it's own (larger number of members) version of the Westboro Baptist Cult!

Or perhaps too much inbreeding among certain elements of that society?

23 posted on 07/04/2012 4:22:05 PM PDT by sarasmom ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xZsFe6dM3EY)
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To: pavlova

24 posted on 07/04/2012 4:25:58 PM PDT by Daffynition (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica

Fishman is trying to make the point that even religious Jews in America are assimilating, and that only in Israel can one be certain to retain one’s Jewishness.

In the column’s context on the Arutz Sheva site, it’s at least an understandable argument. Posted on FR it just appears as incitement.

The religious Jewish answer to this argument is that the State of Israel is still part of the Diaspora, with Jews aping the nation-state culture of Western Civilization.


25 posted on 07/04/2012 4:27:23 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: cripplecreek
...both signed up as union soldiers in the civil war but the brother switched sides.

Far be it for me to question the brother.

8^)

5.56mm

26 posted on 07/04/2012 4:32:56 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: MileHi
Are you haunting these threads just to be an annoyance? Cause you've succeeded. Go away.
27 posted on 07/04/2012 4:33:47 PM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica ("We have prepared for the unbeliever, whips and chains and blazing fires!" Koran Sura 76:4)
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To: M Kehoe

I don’t have any issues there. I’m a pure Yankee and I’m glad the north won for the sake of reunification but also recognize some legitimate complaints of the south that still need to be addressed for all of us.

I love all of America


28 posted on 07/04/2012 4:40:55 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica

Threads?

LOL!

Happy “Fourth”...


29 posted on 07/04/2012 4:49:37 PM PDT by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: pavlova

Check out the threads posted on “Geert Wilders IFA Friends” today ... and you’ll see a lot of Jews appreciative of the USA - and rightfully so. America and Israel are together - not like some of these kinds of RADICALS (in that article) make it out to be. He doesn’t represent “main street” Israel at all ...

Geert Wilders IFA Friends
http://www.facebook.com/GW.IFA


30 posted on 07/04/2012 5:04:47 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: ncfool

American Jews are proud to celebrate the 4th of July. We are American’s first. Strange article.

Not all that strange if you consider the generally accepted fact that converts are often prone to excesses of zeal. A convert at the Synagogue often is “more Jewish than thou”.

Hence my comment that such extremism is neither unknown, nor especially welcomed.

Herr Fishman’s: “They themselves will tell you proudly, first and foremost, they are Americans. That’s their main identity. Their Jewishness is clearly in second place.” may be understood more easily if one factors in the “Convert Factor”.


31 posted on 07/04/2012 5:22:49 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: dog breath

Every Jewish person I’ve ever known has been very loyal to USA, some more so than average. This has to do with the Jewish people’s history and their deeply shared values with America and our American founders. But it is even (more so?) a key teaching of the Jewish faith ... to be good, loyal citizens where=ever resident. This apparently started when Jews found themselves exiled in Babylonia, see Jeremiah 29:4-7, then you may wish to check out Ezra 6:6-10 and many Talmudic or rabbinic statements of loyalty to one’s country of citizenship. The Jewish writers of later Christian scriptures all agreed, as with (your choice, the teaching about loyalty or praying for your rulers whoever they are...where-ever you may be — is quite consistent in all Judeo- Christian books — you can if you wish take a look at such as 1 Maccabees 7:33, Romans 13: 1-7, 1 Peter 2:1-2 and :13-17; Titus 3:1-2, 1 Tim 2:1-4; Galatians 3_19-22, and so on. Almost all of the Bible verses in this posting were written while their Jewish authors were either in exile outside the Promised Land of Israel or under siege or foreign occupation while resident within Israel/Judea. Take your pick, Judeo- Christian religious teachings or scriptures are almost all of a loyal mind for their rulers. (This of course does not mean No Criticism if the rulers are tyrannical or if they, say, show contempt for the citizens or their constitutional rights!) To find a handful of Jews, or people with Jewish-sounding names, or Protestants or Catholics who have any higher loyalty (other to God of course!) and then to post those misguided statements... risks misleading FR readers that Jews or Protestants or Catholics are untrustworthy. This could only breed discord in America at a time when all of us need to work together to fix the obvious problems we have — including those we have with our Rulers — but to speak out for the USA Constitutional or our people’s inalienable constitutional liberties, or to support the 2012 political campaigns for some hopefully-better leaders... is nothing but loyal to America and what our country stands for in history, and in the world. Please do not be misled by silly or stupid or misguided quotes from individuals that are patently NOT at all representative of Jewish teachings (for at least 2,700 years) or the last 2,000 years of Christianity. Thank you.


32 posted on 07/04/2012 5:24:43 PM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: pavlova

“The Fourth of July is Coming - Who Cares?”

For you that may be true. But you might need to be a
little concerned when the Fourth of July no longer
comes to the US, Fishman.


33 posted on 07/04/2012 5:59:01 PM PDT by Sivad (NorCal Red Turf)
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To: faithhopecharity
Letter to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, August 18, 1790 (George Washington)
34 posted on 07/04/2012 6:47:51 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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