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Our Smart Meter Battle Has Started
Email | 6 July 2012 | Unknown Patriot

Posted on 07/07/2012 1:12:52 PM PDT by Windflier

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To: Paladin2

Net meterers of the world, untie! Untie from the Grid!


51 posted on 07/07/2012 2:57:53 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: Windflier

bookmark


52 posted on 07/07/2012 3:10:28 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta (In the last days, mockers will come with their mocking... (2 Peter 3:3))
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To: BobL

Here in Maryland, where our provider is PEPCO deservedly the most reviled corporation in America, we were given two choices. 1) get a Smart Meter, 2) disconnect from the grid. There was no appeal, and this was done with the enthusiastic endorsement of our state gubmint and our Goobernor Martin O’Money, who sees himself as the next President.

We are already st up with a solar/hydro alternative system in our mountain retreat. When a coworker was describing our system to a visiting friend, who gushed about our “environmental sensitivity”, I replied, “Green is globaloney for the gullible. I’m doing this because I don’t trust liberals.” You coulda heard a pin drop in the lunch room.

The grid is at risk because of its fragile complexity and the Watermelon’s war on civilization.


53 posted on 07/07/2012 3:16:00 PM PDT by crusher (Political Correctness: Stalinism Without the Charm)
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To: cripplecreek

(1) It would involve reworking huge chunks of the infrastructure - not possible. (2) You’d notice because most of your stuff like TVs and computers would not work.


54 posted on 07/07/2012 3:17:13 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Windflier

Didn’t have a choice. Our meters are outside of the house.


55 posted on 07/07/2012 3:17:17 PM PDT by KYGrandma (The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home......)
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To: karnage

“The grass is always greener. California has the highest taxes and most business unfriendly regulatory environment in the United States. It is run by the leftiest of the left, starring Governor Moonbeam 2.0.”

Of course, I’m not an idiot. My point only is that Texas could be a MUCH BETTER state when it comes to freedom and keeping illegals from setting up a forward base. But we have Perry and his bitches in the legislature - and it is SICKENING to have to deal with that.


56 posted on 07/07/2012 3:20:22 PM PDT by BobL
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To: crusher

“Here in Maryland, where our provider is PEPCO deservedly the most reviled corporation in America, we were given two choices. 1) get a Smart Meter, 2) disconnect from the grid. There was no appeal, and this was done with the enthusiastic endorsement of our state gubmint and our Goobernor...”

Just like Texas, with our so-called conservative governor. No worse there - if you don’t want a smart meter, then disconnect - it’s the ONLY option offered here.

But in California, there’s a third option...


57 posted on 07/07/2012 3:22:18 PM PDT by BobL
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To: KYGrandma

I hope folks aren’t confusing the “smart meter” with the “remote read” meter, which just allows the meter reader to conveniently read the electricity usage from the street remotely.


58 posted on 07/07/2012 3:24:56 PM PDT by Ronald_Magnus
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To: Windflier

Both gas and electric companies said I had no choice and one of them cost me a 1,000 bucks after the electricity was shut down in my house a couple of days later after they installed.


59 posted on 07/07/2012 3:25:00 PM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: combat_boots

>> Ok, here’s the deal.

What electric company?
What zip code?
What date(s)?


60 posted on 07/07/2012 3:30:47 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Nervous Tick
There’s NO WAY to selectively enable/disable/control individual power draws.

Yeah, that's the way I see it. How can the meter differentiate between the circuits in the fuse box?

I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. 'Peak hours' are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.

61 posted on 07/07/2012 3:35:58 PM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: cripplecreek
Lately I’ve been hearing local chatter suggesting that my electric company has switched from 60Hz to 40Hz and that its causing problems.

The chance that your local utility is delivering power at other than 60Hz is extremely small, and the chance that they would do so intentionally for more than an instant in some emergency situation is effectively zero. The entire US electric grid is designed to run at 60Hz, and every source on the grid has to run at the same frequency.

You could prove it to yourself by plugging in one of those old alarm clocks from the 70's that have a synchronous motor in them. If the clock runs 1/3 slower you'll know that your AC frequency is at 40Hz.

Lots of motors and devices will not function properly with a 40Hz AC source, you'd see evidence of such a frequency shift immediately, and it would be much more dramatic than dimmer lights (which would not be likely if all that happened was a frequency shift).

Now, if your local power supply is really local, like a wind generator up on the hill, or an old diesel generator out behind the barn, you might want to check its output frequency, voltage, etc. Using a clock with an AC motor will test the frequency, a voltmeter (used safely!) will test the voltage level. Checking AC waveform shape, power factor, etc. takes more sophisticated equipment.

If you have unreliable power the usual cause is poor voltage regulation or transients. Various test equipment can log the voltage levels and record brown outs, etc. Google "power line quality monitor", something like an acscout will record power line disturbances.

62 posted on 07/07/2012 3:38:30 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: cripplecreek
Dim lights? That sounds more like a low voltage issue in your neighborhood. That would likely be caused by the local grid being overtaxed and upgrades needed. The further you are from the sub station unless they use step up transformers in their system along the primary line route {lines on the street} the lower your voltage can be. Distance alone cause voltage drop. If your area underwent a build up in the past couple of decades as in more houses, businesses, etc then this is the most likely problem.

As for cycles? Most electrical items built in the past 30 years or so can operate at 50-60 cycles {HZ} as Europe is 50 HZ best I recall and applicances and other items are made to be sold and used world wide. 40 HZ would burn things up fast.

63 posted on 07/07/2012 3:43:36 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Myrddin; BigBobber

>> They can adjust your electric rate on a minute by minute basis if they chose to do so.
>> They are already comparing customer’s energy use with their neighbors to try and shame them into using less. There will soon be financial penalties for using too much power or just using it at the wrong time of day.

Old technology can do *that*. Big deal.

Again: if it’s a problem for you, get *yourself* off the grid. The technology esists to do that.

If you are unwilling or unable to take on your own electric generation — but you still DEMAND!!! that it be delivered YOUR WAY — maybe you should quit your job, join the liberal 99%, and Occupy The Electric Company.

...or is electricity something you feel yourself entitled to, like health care and a job? I don’t see it in *my* copy of the constitution, but maybe yours is different.


64 posted on 07/07/2012 3:43:36 PM PDT by Nervous Tick (Trust in God, but row away from the rocks!)
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To: Hoodat

“I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. ‘Peak hours’ are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.”

Not a bad deal, in my opinion. Just be sure you can make it through those 5 hours without Air Conditioning. If there’s any doubt, stay clear. Practice this summer a bit. Houses heat up quick in the summer - but I’ve made it through multiple days without AC in Houston, in July (just for fun - at some points, it was 89F indoors, and I wasn’t wearing much - needless to say, I was alone at those times)...so it’s doable. But if the wife or junior is going to throw a fit, then FORGET IT, even though 5 cents is dirt-cheap for power.

And be sure to read the DETAILS in the plan.


65 posted on 07/07/2012 3:46:20 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

The 15 minute reporting is also nothing to play down, being that resolution before the ‘Smart Meters’ was 30 days, or roughly 3000 times as long. What 15 minutes means is that anyone that can access your meter’s data will likley know the following:
a) When people go to bed at night
b) When people wake up in the morning
c) When people go to work in the morning
d) When people come home from work in the evening
e) When people leave to go on vacation
f) When people return from vacation


That depends. If you use electric heat, or during air conditioning months, the high draw appliances will dwarf a typical electric light. If you have gone to mostly florescent and LED, it would be very difficult to tell when the bedroom lights went off. Other high draw appliances (e.g. dehumidifier, refrigerator, electric hair driers, electric clothes dryers and stoves, toaster ovens, microwave ovens, coffee makers, some power tools, would be impossible to separate from each other in a house with standard wiring, and hardly worth the trouble. A typical light bulb draws 60 watts, an equivalent flourescent 20 and an LED less than that. The dehumidifier in the basement and the refrigerator will draw 1500. That hydroponics operation will draw more still.

On a scale of 1 to 10 for concern, I give this a 2, and that only because of what they MIGHT build off of from this in the future. I think the free market idea would work. $5 discount for those who want the smart meter so that they don't have to send a man to check your meter every month. I gladly pay $2 a quarter for a paper bill from my garbage hauler because I want a tangible bill from the source. We can do the same with electric.

66 posted on 07/07/2012 3:59:45 PM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("Stronger. You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid! "--Eros, Plan 9 From Outer Space)
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To: Windflier
Are these true Smart Meters or are they digital read out meters with LIMITED data transmit/recieve capabilities? What does the utility say they do in other words?

I have a digital meter that can be communicated with by my utility. They are installed for reasons most persons would not even think about. They are thinking as a utility. They have tens of thousands of customers and lets say a storm hits. They can tell real fast what streets, what homes, what businesses including hospitals nursing homes, etc do and do not have power.

This is a manpower saving system to get your lights back on ASAP. Power companies in emergency mode work like this. They take a large area that out. The chances are it can be a breaker at their substation or on their line. This tells them where to start rather than driving around and wasting time having to look. They get the maximum on as quickly as possible then focus on more local and isolated outages.

The advantage? A tree might fall in your driveway while you are on vacation and knock out your power. You come home a week or two later to find you have no power. This happens a lot in rural areas. This was the system which doesn't get a ping from the meter {much like how your cell phone works} can tell the utility communication is lost.

My power was out last year. I live in a very rural area on a dead end road. My neighbors all 4 houses were gone so I couldn't ask if they were out also. Usually the tap fuse for the line coming up our road blows out. This time I called and the on call guy {after hours} said yea your power is out but your neighbors isn't. So the guy they sent knew to come up straight to my house and check the transformer fuse. It has disconnected itself. This saved him 30 minutes of having to follow the wires up our road.

All the meter does is pings to the system and reports once a month my total usage. On my system I'm not sure it pings the utility all the time or just when they ask like for billing or to check outages.

I can see their reasoning behind this type of system looking at it from a troubleshooting stand point.

67 posted on 07/07/2012 4:01:49 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Dr. Sivana

“That depends. If you use electric heat, or during air conditioning months, the high draw appliances will dwarf a typical electric light. If you have gone to mostly florescent and LED, it would be very difficult to tell when the bedroom lights went off. Other high draw appliances (e.g. dehumidifier, refrigerator, electric hair driers, electric clothes dryers and stoves, toaster ovens, microwave ovens, coffee makers, some power tools, would be impossible to separate from each other in a house with standard wiring, and hardly worth the trouble. A typical light bulb draws 60 watts, an equivalent flourescent 20 and an LED less than that. The dehumidifier in the basement and the refrigerator will draw 1500. That hydroponics operation will draw more still. “

You may want to look at the plots they already have on residential power usage before getting too smug. It’s MORE THAN OBVIOUS when activity is going on. And, as the meters get smarter and smarter, it only becomes that much more obvious.


68 posted on 07/07/2012 4:05:35 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL
Not a bad deal, in my opinion. Just be sure you can make it through those 5 hours without Air Conditioning.

What's 'Air Conditioning'?

69 posted on 07/07/2012 4:09:01 PM PDT by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: Hoodat

“What’s ‘Air Conditioning’?”

If that’s the case, it’s almost a free-bee. Just do a few small things during those peak times, like unplugging the laptop, not running the dryer (if electric) or washer (if the water heater is electric), etc.

If you have electric heat in the winter, you’ll want to crank it up before 2 PM, and then kill it for the 5 hours, which should be survivable.


70 posted on 07/07/2012 4:17:00 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Paladin2
2/3rds ?

My calculator doesn't work well on 40 cycles, either! :)

71 posted on 07/07/2012 4:19:18 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: Hoodat
I recently got a letter from my provider (Georgia Power) offering 20¢/kWh during peak hours, and 5¢/kWh during other times. 'Peak hours' are defined as 2-7 pm, M-F. I am seriously considering doing it. Any advice would be appreciated.

I'm in East Tennessee and I wouldn't do it if offered due to the climate. Any savings you get not running the A/C or heat during that time will be eaten up considerably when the unit has to later remove the heat load built up in that time frame. Or in the winter if on electric heat too make up that difference as well.

If you want savings? Look at a newer more efficient A/C unit. Some of the newer ones out now operate at a fourth of the power demand of ones made 20 years ago. Another Freeper made a believer out of me on that one and I had an Electrical and HVAC background.

72 posted on 07/07/2012 4:28:38 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: BobL

It’s not just electrical usage but water, too. The article below was from 2008. Seems to me that these gateway devices located throughout neighborhoods are asking to be hacked.

“The new meters will have wireless interface units built in. Gateway devices will be located throughout a neighborhood that can receive information from the household smart meters. The gateway keeps the data until it is time to transfer it to the Utility Department’s software system where the information is analyzed by staff members.”

http://www.smartmeters.com/the-news/288-smart-meters-approved-in-texas-town.html


73 posted on 07/07/2012 4:42:16 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Nervous Tick

I won’t say, Tick.

So, let’s just agree that without proof presented, it didn’t happen, right?

I have an ax to grind about that incident, as it happened in a time when one of MY close relatives died, so it really pissed me off royally. And that’s all I am going to say about it.


74 posted on 07/07/2012 5:09:37 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto.)
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To: cva66snipe

Not all the new meters work the same. Some are worse than others.


75 posted on 07/07/2012 5:34:29 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: BobL

And crank the air a hard a few hours before 2 pm.


76 posted on 07/07/2012 5:35:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Not all the new meters work the same. Some are worse than others.

True and that's why I was asking. If they are simple pole and ping capabilities with monthly usage transmission I would not consider them a threat. I think they use the same technology still in R&D stage for Broadband over the powerlines back to a communcations unit at the substation. I think that system can be accessed from the substation or remotely even from a remote laptop for example an on call lineman or dispatcher. It saves time having to wait till the dispatcher drives in etc. The dispatcher can do the same task from his home and still communicate with the lineman. They can also drop out entire legs {not individual homes} remotely if needed.

77 posted on 07/07/2012 6:29:32 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: Ronald_Magnus

Nope. It does everything. They even send an email monthly telling us that we use too much electricity and more gas than our neighbors. Last month, we used too much for just two people. They don’t know there are three in this household.


78 posted on 07/07/2012 6:52:59 PM PDT by KYGrandma (The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home......)
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To: Nervous Tick
Solar is fairly pointless in Pocatello, Idaho. Wind is common, but not very reliable. A few spots have a good shot at geothermal. Otherwise, we keep 10 cords of wood stacked for heat/cooking. I can survive without electricity, but it will hamper water delivery as the city depends on 5 electrically pumped ground wells.
79 posted on 07/07/2012 9:19:36 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Nervous Tick

I’m afraid this isn’t only about the utility companies. It’s just like our medical system. Those who control your access to medicine, or energy, control you.

Social engineers and green lefty tyrants have wanted to control the serfs through the use of the energy system for four decades.

There is no power shortage. There is no energy crisis. There never has been one, even in Jimmy Carter’s days.

To the extent there is a shortage of power it is totally the result of politicians refusing to allow utilities to upgrade the energy system to meet demand.

Obama’s $800 billion “stimulus” could have been used to build enough combined cycle gas generation units to end the “energy crisis” in two years.

The public is being artificially starved from power by the left. If they knew the real energy story, if they knew how they’ve been duped for all these years into thinking there is crisis there would be riots in the street.

Unfortunately, the leftists spin their fairy tales and take advantage of our good will to control the debate. They know we will all do our part to save the polar bears and keep the seas from rising.

Smart Meters are yet another tool for the left to do their dirty work.

Do smart meters serve a useful purpose for the utilities? Of course. That’s why I said they are here to stay. But we need to be aware of their abuse by those who’s goal is to control and enslave use.


80 posted on 07/07/2012 9:28:12 PM PDT by BigBobber
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To: cripplecreek
...local chatter suggesting that my electric company has switched from 60Hz to 40Hz...

Not very likely, Europe runs 230 Vac 3 phase @50Hz, some parts of South America are 40Hz. Problems start with noticeable flickering of fluorescent lights and electric motors running hot.

It's very east to determine if your electric utility is fudging on frequency, check your electric clock against a known time reading (cable decoder box, the Weather channel, &c.). If they are running 40Hz your electric clock will lose 20 minutes per hour, since mechanical clocks use synchronous motors which maintain an rpm slaved to the cyclic rate of the line voltage and electronic (digital) clocks actually count the 'zero' crossings of the line voltage and divide that down to get a one second tick to drive a counter.

If I recall correctly the power delivered by a utility is rather loosely specified in terms of voltage because voltage is not directly under their control. Voltage varies with the load (current), as load goes up voltage tends to sag. Transmission losses occur because of electrical resistance in the distribution system, the further away from the generating station the greater the drop.

Frequency on the other hand is specified by the National Bureau of Standards as 60 cycles per second with any deviation to be corrected so as the total cycle count for a 24 hour period is within +/- 1 cycle of 5,184,000. So if for some reason a utility allows it's generators to run slower then 3600 rpm for part of a day, they are required to make up the 'lost' cycles before the next day. For the power distribution grid to work with multiple generating plants all connected together it is necessary that they maintain synchronization of generator speed.

It may seem strange but if you watch an electric clock with a sweep second hand as midnight approaches you might see it speed up a bit just before the last minute of the day passes. It doesn't happen very often but then nobody's perfect.

Regards,
GtG

81 posted on 07/07/2012 10:09:06 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: beef
Someone please explain to me how you discern sexual activity with the information gathered by a smart meter.

How do they differentiate pets from people. What if you had a boy and girl dog with the bitch in heat? This is really getting to me. I'm going to rip out all my copper.

82 posted on 07/07/2012 10:22:46 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: cva66snipe; cripplecreek

Greetings:

Just to clear up a few details, through variable frequency drive (vfd) technology, 60Hz motors run at a slower rpm during lower load demands. Varying the Hz signal to the motor for a slower rpm saves energy.

With electric grids, all of the intertied generating apparatus must have switchgear protection devices: over/under voltage, overcurrent, and timing relays. Every generator matches and maintains grid voltage and frequency; otherwise a generator will not join, or must drop from the grid.

The grid target voltage is determined by ICC rules, generally (4160) 118.9 VAC household. As loads add and drop from grid, voltage varies. Utilities attempt to keep grid votlage between (3700) 105.7 and (4600) 131.4 VAC. Undervoltage relays generally trip switchgear at (3500) 100 VAC; overvoltage at (4900) 140 VAC.

Whenever large sections of grid drop during failures, restarting the grid is a major issue. Voltage must reach peak just below the overvoltage protection device trip point limit before closing switchgear for additional grid sections, yet not drop below the undervoltage/overcurrent protection trip point before the intertied generators sense signal droop and react. Historic load demand profiles are used when restoring grid sections, which helps explain why different sections of grid return in a different order.

There’s a difference between the various “smart” and “remote” meter technologies. Some remote report via piggyback Hz signal down the 60 Hz utility buss to the utility, providing billing demand feedback and help utilities determine service interuptions. The “smart” ones are only limited by available applied technology and our immaginations.

Given the abuses of power by busybody government agencies, I would personally refuse smart meter service. As creatures of habit, just imagine what Google might do with that data too.

Utilities always make more money from the connected utility service than from metered electric consumption. Should a crony-utility threaten to disconnect your service, tell utility of your plan to install two internal combustion generators at home with waste heat recovery system for much improved reliability and free heat/cooling; and they must remove all the utility wires/poles from your property should they disconnect your service. Or you’ll remove it and sell for scrap. Believe me, the utility wants you as a customer, writing their steady monthly paycheck.

Cheers,
OLA


83 posted on 07/17/2012 3:01:29 AM PDT by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
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To: Windflier; Baynative

If you want to be on or off the Agenda 21 ping list, please notify me by Freepmail. It is a relatively low volume list in which we have been exploring the UN Agenda21 and related topics. We have collected our studies with threads, links, and discussions on the Agenda 21 thread which can be found here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2738418/posts

NEW ACTION THREAD:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2861644/posts


84 posted on 07/30/2012 5:20:05 PM PDT by TEXOKIE
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To: Windflier

bfl


85 posted on 12/01/2012 10:42:59 PM PST by pigsmith (Now I understand why America is not mentioned in the end times.)
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