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Electronic Armageddon (video)
National Geographic (Youtube( ^ | National Geographic

Posted on 07/07/2012 10:08:50 PM PDT by djf

I watched a very interesting video last night. Electronic Armageddon, created by National Geographic.

There are a lot of interesting interviews with Air Defense people, Electronic engineers, Food and Agricultural industries.

It's an hour long or so show split into three parts:

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Df0qwFxN4&feature=related

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBWyXDJ9J74

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2NEhZHWGRg

Good reason to by a beater '64 Dodge!!


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Society
KEYWORDS: emp; getreadyhereitcomes; prepperping; survivalping

1 posted on 07/07/2012 10:08:55 PM PDT by djf
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


2 posted on 07/07/2012 10:22:30 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: djf

BMFL


3 posted on 07/07/2012 10:23:30 PM PDT by Scutter
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To: djf
Good reason to by a beater '64 Dodge!!

Yes and no. Don't mean to be a downer, but a realist. Beware of the breakdown in the windings from imperfections in the varnish coatings. Just something to consider. That is one of the major flaws on relying on older vehicles in a SHTF scenario. Newer model vehicles may be just as effective in limp home mode. Simply reset the task units by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery.
4 posted on 07/07/2012 11:14:28 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: djf; Kartographer; Scutter; PA Engineer
The Mark 6 re-entry vehicle on the Titan II ICBM carried a 9 Megaton W53 warhead. This thing could do some serious EMP damage if it was detonated at a very high altitude

Titan II ICBM launch

Mark 6 re-entry vehicle

5 posted on 07/07/2012 11:53:54 PM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

Doesn’t need to be that large. Some studies have found that a single bomb of 1.5 megaton about 200 miles over Kansas would effect the entire nation.

The launch vehicle is the hard part. Iran currently has the capability to put 65kg into this high of orbit.


6 posted on 07/08/2012 3:45:18 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Scutter

me, too.


7 posted on 07/08/2012 3:52:48 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Excellence

srbfl


8 posted on 07/08/2012 6:48:36 AM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: PA Engineer

Would that really work?


9 posted on 07/08/2012 7:02:18 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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To: djf; Kartographer

Without trying to give my kids nightmares, I do tell them that once they confirm an EMP (not too hard to do), to fill up everything that can hold water, with water, as we use city water. So there will be a short time when water is available from gravity feed, and then it will be gone. Hopefully enough will be collected to ride us into rooftop collection.

...of course, life would suck after the pulse.


10 posted on 07/08/2012 8:12:51 AM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

Thing that gets me is that alot of people think we would go back to say an 1870’s way of life, which would be survivable, even if it’s miserable.

Horse and buggy days.

But how many people even know how to DRIVE a buggy, MUCH LESS MAKE ONE?

How many people could make candles? Even if they had the wax? Come to think of it, where does wax even come from?

How many could make and operate a loom?

We wouldn’t go back to the 1870’s, we’d go back to the zero-zero seventies!!


11 posted on 07/08/2012 8:27:55 AM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: djf
I watched a documentary “Trinity & Beyond” last night that was compiled in 1995. Available on Netflix. Anyhow, back prior to 1965 when the above-ground test ban went into effect, there were over 100 test shots done IN OR OVER AMERICA, most within 100 miles of Las Vegas. A sizable portion of those were below-ground tests, but a chunk were above-ground as well.

Why didn't EMP take out Las Vegas?

There were over 300 tests performed by the US overall. Most in the Pacific, but some in the South Atlantic, in New Mexico, and the Nevada site I mentioned before. There was only one mention of EMP in the program, and it was in conjunction with a 30 MT (or so) shot in the Pacific, and it was noted as effecting a large area, but not that it was catastrophic. It just seemed to be a nuisance.

12 posted on 07/08/2012 8:35:29 AM PDT by Stegall Tx (Living off your tax dollars can be kinda fun, but not terribly profitable.)
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To: djf

“How many people could make candles?”
Meee - did it as a hobby in grade school, and from time to time since. Still have all of the hardware (and gasoline and propane-powered stoves to melt the wax, or a solar oven might make more sense).

“Even if they had the wax?”
Still have about 30 lbs. It would last a while, but it would run out, of course.

“Come to think of it, where does wax even come from?”
The store - YOU IDIOT, just like where my food comes from. LOL.


13 posted on 07/08/2012 8:46:16 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Stegall Tx

“There were over 300 tests performed by the US overall. Most in the Pacific, but some in the South Atlantic, in New Mexico, and the Nevada site I mentioned before. There was only one mention of EMP in the program, and it was in conjunction with a 30 MT (or so) shot in the Pacific, and it was noted as effecting a large area, but not that it was catastrophic. It just seemed to be a nuisance. “

There is definitely some debate. Even the testing done on this show (on the thread) only claimed 10% of cars get wiped out, if I heard it right.

But what can you do - at least Newt talked about an EMP. I only wish someone would detonate one away from our mainland, say near Hawaii - and we could find out once and for all what the threat is.


14 posted on 07/08/2012 8:51:05 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Kartographer

Some years ago, I made a Faraday cage using a metal box and put my short wave and emergency radio in there.

This video was very informative. The country is just toast if this happens. Not many people would live through this. Suddenly it happens with no time for preps if an enemy does it. If the sun does it, the film says we have three days before it gets here. There would be major panic and I wouldn’t want to be in that panic. That’s why it’s important to be able to isolate yourself/family, immediately. After the initial panic, your situation might change so you could be in the open. I won’t be in the open.


15 posted on 07/08/2012 11:20:33 AM PDT by Marcella (The power to tax is the power to destroy.)
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To: moonshot925

Last week I read a very moving (fictional) account about the aftermath of an EMP attack on the US. The novel is called “One Second After”. It’s available an Amazon, but if you’re a cheap SOB (like me) you can also get it as a free PDF online. Just do a Google search for “one second after book PDF”. I was crying half the time I was reading it.


16 posted on 07/08/2012 11:21:14 AM PDT by Stirner
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To: djf

Do android Geres dream of electric gerbils?


17 posted on 07/08/2012 11:31:13 AM PDT by RichInOC ("ARMAGEDDON!!!" [BOOM!] "And the rodents' red glare, gerbils bursting in air...")
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To: BobL; Stegall Tx

The reason few of the tests had much of an EMP effect is NONE of them were detonated in the outer stratosphere. For an EMP to be a worst case scenario it needs to be 20 megaton and detonated about 300KM in space. Only a few were tested at that range and they were under 4MT. Also they were tested in the 50/60s and we did not even have many transistors of which any effect could be noted.

In 2012? Everything is 1.8v 40 nanometer and will FRY. Smoked. Dead forever. And it only takes ONE chip in a device to render that device gone. Doesn’t have to fry the whole board.

If an EMP attack happens... 200 million will be dead in 15 days due to lack of water. 50 million in cities due to simple dehydration. Another 50 due to dehydration from the “runs” they get drinking bad water. And the last 100 million two weeks later who had supplies, stole supplies or who did not die of dehydration will then turn on each other like animals or be the prey of those who do turn.

An EMP is the game changer. We build a house of cards and it WILL fall.


18 posted on 07/08/2012 12:02:08 PM PDT by Waywardson (If you fear Obama..... vote for Romney. If you fear God... DON'T !)
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To: Marcella; Kartographer; All

Almost everyone has a Faraday cage today.

It’s in your kitchen.

It’s called a “microwave oven”!


19 posted on 07/08/2012 12:09:18 PM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Stegall Tx
Why didn't EMP take out Las Vegas?

Because in 1965 or the 1961 Starfish test, no-one used microcircuits that are much more vulneralble than the tubes we used back then.

Microcircuits are used to control the water and sewage pumping stations today. Microcircuits are used to control the power grid.

Starfish was 600 miles away from Hawaii.

Telephones were controlled by rotary relays back then. Today, it's sensitive computers.

So sensitive in fact that people that work on them wear wrist straps to drain off static electicity. That little spark in winter when you scuff your feet across the carpet and touch the doorknob can ruin a computer.

/johnny

20 posted on 07/08/2012 12:27:15 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: djf
Candles can be made of tallow if wax isn't available (bee's wax or petrolum wax). Field expedient lamps with almost any kind of oil are easier.

I can drive a buggy. I've built a spinning wheel. I can make a buggy. I can make a loom. Operating one is woman's work, along with spinning, but I can teach them how to do it.

But why bother. Even if there was an emp, there's enough junk laying around I'd be generating 'lectricity in a day or two, and lightbulbs will still work.

Having built a cabin in the mountains and lived off grid for 2 years, I can testify that it sucks. Bigtime.

/johnny

21 posted on 07/08/2012 12:33:45 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Waywardson
When you let the magic smoke out of the chip, it's dead. ;)

/johnny

22 posted on 07/08/2012 12:35:56 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: djf
I don't have a microwave, perish the thought, but I do have a few old-fashioned metal file cabinets that just happen to be bonded and grounded, and I tested them with the megger.

/johnny

23 posted on 07/08/2012 12:39:50 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

HA HA HA. THAT is old old OLD school. I’d forgotten it.


24 posted on 07/08/2012 12:40:45 PM PDT by Waywardson (If you fear Obama..... vote for Romney. If you fear God... DON'T !)
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To: Waywardson

“An EMP is the game changer. We build a house of cards and it WILL fall.”

Well it doesn’t have to fall, just like we don’t have to get conquered by another country. But yes, we’re not doing a whole bunch (or more precisely, we’re not doing jack) to protect against an attack...so yea, we’ll be in a hell of a mess when that happens.


25 posted on 07/08/2012 12:53:46 PM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL; JRandomFreeper

“I only wish someone would detonate one away from our mainland, say near Hawaii - and we could find out once and for all what the threat is.”

Good one, Bob.

I have a book around here, somewhere - “The Effects of Nuclear Weapons”, DOE, 1975, I think. Rather interesting reading, if I could remember where I put it.


26 posted on 07/08/2012 2:27:32 PM PDT by patton (DateDiff)
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To: JRandomFreeper

I doubt one in ten thousand have your experience, your skills will be very much in demand if SHTF.

Me, I’ll just do nickel and dime stuff. Small engines, whatever.

Remember, there will be tens of thousands of cars out of gas that still have very good batteries and alternators in them. Use your imagination!!


27 posted on 07/08/2012 2:32:29 PM PDT by djf ("There are more old drunkards than old doctors." - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: djf
Diodes are likely to be blown in the alternators. They are after all, PN junctions.

Remember generators and relay regulators?

Batteries should be fine.

I'll manage. I've been winding coils (frequency specific) since I was 10.

/johnny

28 posted on 07/08/2012 2:40:28 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: patton
The unclassified 1977 version is available at this site

/johnny

29 posted on 07/08/2012 2:47:23 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

This would be remarkably easy to prevent with a simple relay that switches fron ‘on’ to ‘off’ when energized, placed from the alternator output to frame ground.

This would automatically ‘ground’ both sides of the diode when the engine is not running.


30 posted on 07/08/2012 2:51:26 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Most folks won't do that. You are correct that if you ground both sides of the diode (bonding) they shouldn't suffer any effect from EMP if the alternator isn't running.

How you do that when you are driving the vehicle and both sides can't be grounded? I can think of a way or two, but that's a more difficult problem.

We're facing the same kind of thing with the power infrastructure. There are ways to prevent the damage, but it's gonna cost money and require work.

/johnny

31 posted on 07/08/2012 3:01:36 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: djf
For the candle you may want to try this

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-an-Everlasting-Candle

How to Make an Everlasting Candle: 5 steps - wikiHow www.wikihow.com/​Make-an-Everlasting-Candle The Crisco candle isn't really everlasting but it has been known to burn continuously for 45 days. The flame is likely to be smaller than a regular wax candle because ...

32 posted on 07/08/2012 4:22:30 PM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: djf

I think any EMP attack on America will be a fabricated one using devices at or slightly above ground level. Very limited in effects and range.

But just the panic alone would achieve results.

And of course Obama will blame the Iranians.

Would be nice to know the current inventory of all US EMP weapons available. It would be interesting indeed if some were “unaccounted” for.


33 posted on 07/08/2012 4:28:48 PM PDT by Eye of Unk (Going mobile, posts will be brief. No spellcheck for the grammar nazis.)
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To: JRandomFreeper

Thank you for that - been looking for that book for years. I think one of my buddies swiped it.

But, given the mess of books in this building, I ain’t really sure.

When I took the AFVAB, they say “You can be anything you want - except a clerk.”

And they were right.


34 posted on 07/08/2012 5:44:04 PM PDT by patton (DateDiff)
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To: BobL

Find a bee keeper and use beeswax.


35 posted on 07/08/2012 5:53:35 PM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: BobL; JRandomFreeper; Kartographer

How much would it cost to turn your entire home into a Faraday cage to protect all your cell phones, computers and other sensitive electronics from EMP or a solar storm?


36 posted on 07/08/2012 6:16:17 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Obama should change his campaign slogan to "Yes, we am!" Sounds as stupid as his administration is.)
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To: BobL; JRandomFreeper; Kartographer

Come to think of it, that was a dumb novice question. Without functioning cell towers, functioning cell phones would be fancy paperweights, anyhow.

Likewise, can’t do very much with a computer without internet, except for personal or family items.


37 posted on 07/08/2012 6:19:59 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Obama should change his campaign slogan to "Yes, we am!" Sounds as stupid as his administration is.)
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To: Lurker
Would that really work?

I was looking for the automobile study that was done. I'm sorry I could not find it. Generally there was no predicting how cars would respond. Some vehicles had no ill effects. Some of them had accessories that failed and others came to a complete stop. Of the once that shut down, about half could be rebooted in limp mode. The remainder had to be towed away. It was a crapshoot as far as predicting the outcomes.

The findings about varnish failures on windings were the result of Russian tests.
38 posted on 07/08/2012 6:26:52 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Nyet, tovarich. No question is dumb. Cell phones have batteries that won't be affected.

Computers that are protected will work and I don't know about you, but an intranet can be as important as an internet.

I've got 3 blocks around here covered with network connection if required.

Sure, google and wiki won't be available, but a local network will be, and eventually will connect to other networks... hey... isn't that how arpanet started back when I didn't have to shave twice a day?

/johnny

39 posted on 07/08/2012 6:28:48 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: antisocial
I like the idea of rendering down goblins and using the oil for lamps.

Except that I'll have electric lights.

/johnny

40 posted on 07/08/2012 6:31:01 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

“Come to think of it, that was a dumb novice question. “

Yea, you did jump the gun on that, a bit. You can still make a case that keeping your personal electronics working is better than the alternative. But life would still bite.

Anyway, I forgive you, having to spend years dealing with Governor Perry’s attempt to wreck our freeway systems does take its toll (so to speak) on all of us.


41 posted on 07/08/2012 6:44:55 PM PDT by BobL
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To: djf

BFL


42 posted on 07/08/2012 6:58:30 PM PDT by NELSON111
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To: Stegall Tx
I watched a documentary “Trinity & Beyond” last night that was compiled in 1995.

I love that film. My wife hates it.

43 posted on 07/09/2012 11:18:59 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (My dog, yes. My wife, maybe. My gun....NEVER!)
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To: JRandomFreeper; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; djf

The fact that any of one’s electronic devices might, by themselves, be operable is really moot when we’re talking about an EMP (or a powerful enough CME). Why? Simply because there won’t be any electricity for connectivity of any kind. The E3 wave of EMP (most similar to what a CME would generate, BTW) will fry the ultra-large transformers that we depend on. There are only about 400 in the entire nation, and not only are none made here any more, but the backlog is on the order of 18 months - in normal circumstances, with no war, no destroyed infrastructure, no fried financial system, etc.

YOUR phone may work, but it won’t connect to anything; ditto for your computers, because even if you could connect to other computers, you’d run out of electricity pretty soon (unless you had stored PV panels in a Faraday Cage and could recharge batteries).

Oh, and even if the system was able to work because you did everything right, virtually nobody else has done so to date. That means massive numbers of deaths from dehydration and/or starvation and/or disease and/or violence. Refineries won’t work, meaning that no gas or diesel will be produced, meaning that food won’t get transported. Also, there’d be no medical system to speak of, and anyone dependent on the delivery of drugs will soon die. There will be a lack of sanitation, and between that, he lack of medical attention, the general fall-off in nutrition and the enormous rise in stress, disease will take off and kill a lot of people that survived the water and food shortages. Oh, and during the course of starving, etc., there will be a lot of people who decide that what you thought was yours is really theirs by some messed-up morality. In short, having a working computer or cell phone, EVEN IF you could connect with some others (doubtful), will be of little concern to you. Note that many EMP experts believe that as much as 90% of the US population would die within 1 year of a well-executed EMP strike. http://www.thedailysheeple.com/catastrophic-effects-of-emp-starvation-violence-90-casualties_122011 (interview with Frank Gaffney, a military strategist). Everyone’s chief concerns will be obtaining clean water and food, followed by not getting sick or injured and not getting killed by the few others that have survived, who wish to take whatever you have for themselves.

Yes, people will survive, but we are utterly unprepared as a society to sustain ourselves without electrical power. We don’t have the tools of those living 150 years ago, nor the knowledge/experience to use them, even if we had them. Without modern farming techniques (requiring fuel for tractors, oil by-products for fertilizers and pesticides, fuel for transport and electricity for processing and refrigeration), this country simply cannot support 310 million people. Without the availability of relatively clean water (which needs electricity to purify and pump), people will die within a matter of days (or they’ll drink disease-ridden water and die from dysentery, etc. We have constructed a magnificent society - but it depends on everything working right. Failures in one major system can easily lead to a cascade of failures in other systems. We simply don’t have a robust system, and either enemy action or a massive CME (like the 1859 Carrington Event) could literally destroy us.


44 posted on 07/10/2012 8:00:08 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)
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To: Ancesthntr
We don’t have the tools of those living 150 years ago, nor the knowledge/experience to use them, even if we had them.

Why yes, I actually do. I did build a shack in the wilderness and live off-grid for a couple of years.

Did you know that wine can be made from cactus pears?

/johnny

45 posted on 07/10/2012 8:05:00 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“We” is meant in its collective sense - i.e. “we” as a society. I’m glad that you have the knowledge (and, obviously, some of the equipment), I just wish that 1/3 or more of the population did. I think that you understood my point, you just didn’t want to discuss it.


46 posted on 07/12/2012 9:46:46 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)
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