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De Soto discovery could change history books
Ocala [FL] Star Banner ^ | July 8, 2012 | Fred Hiers

Posted on 07/09/2012 7:05:53 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands

Hernando De Soto's route through Florida is as elusive to modern archaeologists as the gold the famed Spanish explorer sought throughout the southeastern United States.

Ever since De Soto's 600 men set foot on the shores of Tampa Bay, arriving from Cuba almost 500 years ago, historians have debated the exact direction of his failed treasure-hunting expeditions as far north as Tennessee and North Carolina.

But in north Marion County, an archaeologist has found what his contemporaries deem rarer than the gold De Soto was seeking — physical evidence of the explorer's precise journey through Marion County and enough information to redraw Florida De Soto maps and fuel many more archaeological digs based on his findings.

(Excerpt) Read more at ocala.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: archaeology; desoto; godsgravesglyphs

1 posted on 07/09/2012 7:06:02 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands
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To: SunkenCiv

ping


2 posted on 07/09/2012 7:07:08 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands (Mitt Romney is a handbasket driver. I refuse to ride.)
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

Living in Desoto county MS, I can only say he walked through my living room on the way to the Mississippi


3 posted on 07/09/2012 7:08:49 PM PDT by Sybeck1 (The Meek Shall Inherit the Earth, Sadly Not the Presidency It Seems)
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

4 posted on 07/09/2012 7:11:46 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Engraved-on-His-hands. It's a George Costanza moment. :')

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


5 posted on 07/09/2012 7:13:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Paladin2

6 posted on 07/09/2012 7:16:12 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

What???

They found a 500 year old desoto in florida?

Does it run?


7 posted on 07/09/2012 7:17:23 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: Sybeck1
Living in Desoto county MS, I can only say he walked through my living room on the way to the Mississippi

As I understand it--based upon reliable, historical sources--De Soto wasn't trying to reach the Mississippi. He was traveling to see the ducks at the Peabody Hotel.
8 posted on 07/09/2012 7:20:36 PM PDT by Engraved-on-His-hands (Mitt Romney is a handbasket driver. I refuse to ride.)
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To: editor-surveyor

What a silly question! The gas has turned to jelly dust and the battery is dead as a doornail. How could it run? The crew used alcohol mix with gas so the gasline tubing is all shot, too. Besides, no one knows where the ignition key is.


9 posted on 07/09/2012 7:21:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Paladin2

Long stroke 383.

‘59 was the only year they built that engine.


10 posted on 07/09/2012 7:22:12 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: Paladin2
damn if it don't look like the offspring of a Chevy and a Chrysler
11 posted on 07/09/2012 7:23:59 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

Interesting story! I believe it was De Soto’s contact with the Timucua Indians where De Soto described how the Indians would take the scalps of slain enemies as war trophies, putting to rest the false claim that the Indians learned it from the white man many years later.

Also, I had an old New Mexico history book that claimed when Coronado looked for Grand Quivara in Kansas he heard of whites to the South East and tried to make contact. He failed.
It also mentioned he left behind two priests at their behest to convert the Indians. They even built a chapel on the plains, but when they wanted to go and convert a neighboring enemy tribe, their own Indian converts killed them.


12 posted on 07/09/2012 7:25:10 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: MHGinTN

The key is hidden in granny’s asefedita bag.


13 posted on 07/09/2012 7:25:10 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: editor-surveyor

You sneaky rascal ...


14 posted on 07/09/2012 7:26:34 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Paladin2

Loved Virgil Exner’s “Forward Look”-particularly the ‘57-’58 models.


15 posted on 07/09/2012 7:34:05 PM PDT by Carl LaFong (Vera the possum is US.)
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

OK, I admit it...I clicked on this because I thought it was a car thread.


16 posted on 07/09/2012 7:40:00 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Paladin2
Beautiful car! I had two Plymouth Furies, a 57 and later on, a 58, both essentially identical to the DeSoto body style. I thought it was the most beautiful U.S. body style I had ever seen. The Furies had the 318 V8, with not just a 4-barrel, but TWO of them. I saw over 110 MPH a couple of times, but with the 58, I finally changed manifolds and went back to a single 4-barrel rig. Still got only 12 mpg or so. That gold stripe down the side (only Furies had it) was a cop magnet.

The movie "Christine" was a disappointment. The factory in Evansville, IN never built a red Fury. All of them in both model years were "Desert Sand" when delivered, which went perfectly with the gold anodized stripes and grille. Seeing your picture takes me back over 50 years . . .

17 posted on 07/09/2012 7:48:03 PM PDT by 19th LA Inf
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To: 19th LA Inf
I especially like the windshields from that era.

No blocking A-pillars and easy to look up for cop planes trying to nab ya.

18 posted on 07/09/2012 7:51:22 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands; SunkenCiv; All
The Gainesville Sun has been running several article on De Soto for the past several days. Good stuff, I think they will have a few more.


Lost mission revealed


19 posted on 07/09/2012 7:52:24 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
That's actually a story from 16th century Virginia ~ long before the Spanish had figured out the place was in the grip of an enormous drought.

Now, about crossing "The Great River', as we all know today the Great River flows West from the confluence of the Monongahela and Allegheny to Cairo illinois and then Souf' to N'orlans etc.

That is 90% of the flow into the Mississippi comes from what is today called the Ohio River ~ and that fact must have been quite apparent to the Indians.

There is an old theory that has DeSoto wandering about Tennessee, then crossing to Arkansas, then getting killed. A more modern theory has DeSoto abandoning the Florida coast and marching straight North to the Western slope of the Appalachians (missing hurricanes no doubt), and on to Green River Island (at the outflow of the Green River in Kentucky into the Ohio) Where he could make a fairly safe river crossing ~ well protected against Indian attack as well.

At that point he would have encountered his first large Mound Builder village. Later, as he moved up through the rather sparse landscape of drought damaged Southern Indiana (same drought hitting Virginia) he'd been in the open and able to see highlands where he'd be safe from any floods, or Indian attacks.

In this theory he stops at what are now Vincinnes and Terre Haute and describes features still visible ~ e.g. fish hatching ponds!

Although he never found the gold mines he did find iron pyrite, and at that time that indicated that there'd be sufficient iron to make iron implements (near a place known today as Laurel Indiana ~ arguably 'la villa real' from later Spanish interest ~ take a look at the layout) AND, there'd be enough residual gold in the process to command a nice profit. He also discovered some native copper lying about left over from an early Ice Age advance ~ and I know exactly where that spot is!

For some reason or other his forays into Southern Indiana to the East of his line of march missed the only gold ever found in quantity in the MidWest! It wasn't cleared out for another 3 centuries.

The Arkansas first theory has to ignore the native copper and iron pyrite stories.

20 posted on 07/09/2012 7:53:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands
Oops, my bad.


21 posted on 07/09/2012 7:54:30 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

Thanks! The classic I’ve always wanted to own!

Family had a ‘55 Chysler St. Regis Custom Coupe, with the big hemi engine. Custom built as my Dad was the advertising director for Chrysler Corp, and around the dining room table we, as a family came up with “Forward Look” in early ‘54: then mapped out the pentastar representing: Plymouth, Dodge, Desoto, Chrysler, Imperial, in pen, on Mom’s white linen tablecloth. She was not happy.

Dad folded the tablecloth into his briefcase to present to his office the next morning.


22 posted on 07/09/2012 8:00:24 PM PDT by Noob1999 (Loose Lips, Sink Ships)
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To: 19th LA Inf

Your ‘58 should have gotten way better milage than that. The ‘58 was a 350 with 11:1 compression, and was known for 20+ MPG on the highway.

I had a Dodge with the 440 11:1 engine that could get 22 MPG at 80 MPH. Used to be able to go from Walnut Creek to Vegas without filling up on the way.


23 posted on 07/09/2012 8:02:04 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they were.)
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To: muawiyah
He could have marched up to Michigan and brought back copper; like 'others' did several hundred years earlier.

As for Indiana gold that is interesting. I know people often find ol' gold placers in several creeks in Michigan, I didn't know of a real prospect area in Indiana.

24 posted on 07/09/2012 8:07:04 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Paladin2

The De Soto dealership in Whittier, Calif. was on Philadelphia St., just east of Whittier High School. It closed in 1961 when the brand was discontinued, and the building remained vacant for years, save for a bust of Hernando De Soto that hung on the wall. The bust remained there, still illuminated by a green neon tube, until at least 1969. At night, it was especially eerie to see look through the window and see the symbol of a long-departed business still illuminated.


25 posted on 07/09/2012 8:16:08 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
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To: editor-surveyor

“What???

They found a 500 year old desoto in florida?

Does it run?”

Perhaps there is a reason the Air Force stores planes at a base in the desert instead of in a Florida swamp?


26 posted on 07/09/2012 8:17:25 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: Theoria
Brown, Monroe and Morgan counties had several million bucks recovered ~ back when a buck was real money too.

There are two other sites I believe the Spanish may have tapped out in the 1600s ~ but i'm not telling anybody where they are!

One of the Indian groups that may have caused DeSoto a great deal of trouble were the Shawnee who held court at the Falls on the Ohio. Nobody could go upstream or downstream without paying tribute.

They had, among other things, what seems to have been one of the largest armories of stone arrow and spear points ever found on Earth. Secondly, they did not control as far North as the Muscatatuck River because of frequent floods in the area.

That left the Ohio/Wabash/East Fork of the White River the access route to move through the Muscatatuck bottoms to near "Laurel" and then downhill to the Whitewater that drains into the Miami ~ that was your level route to avoid the Shawnee. If you went South through Kentucky they'd kill you.

If you transported goods through the interior of the American Midwest you had to do it via small boats on streams ~ some in season, but you could do that. One popular bypass was the St. Joseph River in Northern Indiana ~ it provided a short cut from Lake Michigan to Lake Erie!

27 posted on 07/09/2012 8:18:18 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Noob1999

Cool story.


28 posted on 07/09/2012 8:19:07 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Theoria
Hundreds ~ actually THOUSANDS of years before Columbus the Indians along the Wabash went up to Marquette/Maronette(?)etc. and acquired native copper. Other indians further North went to the Upper Peninsula. Eventually the Spanish did some small scale mining in the UP but they had better digs going in Spain, South America and in parts of the Hapsburgian Empire (since it wasn't until 1810/12 that the Czar took possession of the Carpathian mountains).

Check out Spanish MInes in ILlinois ~ near Galena. These started out as Spanish lead mines.

About 25 miles SE of that site there's a coal field they seemed to have worked. Town layout follows Law of the Indies standards too.

29 posted on 07/09/2012 8:23:16 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I read an article in Science about 15 years ago or so which discussed pre-Columbian skulls which exhibited signs of scalping. Arguments of a European introduction of scalping are not tenable.


30 posted on 07/09/2012 8:30:10 PM PDT by bagman
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

This kind of find just amazes me. Who knows what might be just below the surface, just under our feet? And sitting there for hundreds of years waiting to be rediscovered.


31 posted on 07/09/2012 8:30:22 PM PDT by Rocky (Obama is pure evil)
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To: muawiyah
Fascinating. You have acquired way too much arch/anthro knowledge. Ya make ol' Cliff look like a piker.


32 posted on 07/09/2012 8:33:33 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: bagman

Check this out.

http://www.dickshovel.com/scalp.html


33 posted on 07/09/2012 8:39:48 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: Theoria
I've been to the site in Michigan ~ actually one of the sites on/near the michigan/Wisconsin border ~ where copper was first worked!

There were early claims that they smelted copper there, but it's much more likely that given the quality of the native copper they just pounded it with rocks.

34 posted on 07/09/2012 8:44:21 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Engraved-on-His-hands

It’s pretty amazing that Spanish explorers had so much more trouble with the North American Indian tribes than with the sophisticated civilizations of the Mayans, Incans and Aztecs. Of course, North American Indians were fighting Uncle Sam two hundred and fifty years after the first English settlers set foot on Plymouth Rock, so it’s clear they were of hardy stock.


35 posted on 07/09/2012 9:58:50 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: 19th LA Inf

FWIW, in the original story of Christine (the book), the car was described as being a special-order, with the next-year colors, so presumably the 1959 colors.


36 posted on 07/09/2012 10:51:30 PM PDT by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Zhang Fei
It’s pretty amazing that Spanish explorers had so much more trouble with the North American Indian tribes than with the sophisticated civilizations of the Mayans, Incans and Aztecs.

Civilization vs. the warlike nomad culture. It's an old story. It wasn't always clear that civilization was "the way to go" for mankind when you consider the depredations of the Huns, Mongols and so forth.

37 posted on 07/10/2012 5:18:22 AM PDT by Tallguy (It's all 'Fun and Games' until somebody loses an eye!)
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To: Tallguy

The Huns were a bandit gang from China. They changed ethnicity on their way West. The Mongols were HERDSMEN, not nomads. For the most part they were the technological equals of the Chinese ~ and they whipped them with IMPROVED METHODS and a BETTER HORSE with a BETTER SADDLE and a BETTER BOW!


38 posted on 07/10/2012 6:34:03 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Theoria

Thanks Theoria!


39 posted on 07/10/2012 3:23:39 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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