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S.F. National Forest Warns of Coyotes (Protect them WTF?)
The Albuquerque Journal ^ | July 12, 2012 | ABQ Journal Staff

Posted on 07/12/2012 7:55:38 AM PDT by CedarDave

SANTA FE — After several reports of confrontations between hikers’ dogs and coyotes in recent weeks, Santa Fe National Forest officials are asking residents “to be alert to situations for potential wildlife conflicts and learn how to avoid them.”A National Forest news release suggested hikers should be “mindful and respectful of the coyote’s habitat” by keeping dogs on a leash. The release also noted that under a Santa Fe County ordinance, any dog or other domestic animal within a county park, trail or open space area shall be restrained by a leash.

A dog owned by Santa Fe residents Houston and Alice M. Davis was attacked July 10 by a coyote while Houston Davis and their two dogs were hiking along a service road in the Millennium Lift area.

(Excerpt) Read more at abqjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: coyotes; newmexico; pcgoneamuck; santafe
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From an earlier story:

SANTA FE – At least two hikers’ dogs were attacked by coyotes this past weekend at the Santa Fe ski basin, and their owners want to warn the many other area residents and their pets who seek those cool mountain meadows for exercise to beware.

The coyotes apparently weren’t limiting themselves to easy prey. One dog that was chased down and emerged with puncture wounds to each thigh was an 85-pound Anatolian shepherd.

Sandra Mendel said she and her 25-pound, 10-month-old dog Bree were surrounded and harried by a pack of about four coyotes. She said she was walking down the Sunset ski trail when she felt her dog slam into her from behind, yelping. She turned around to see four coyotes, one of them only five feet away.

As she crouched down to check on her dog, “they started closing in,” Mendel said. “I jumped up and started swinging my trekking poles.”

Her dog was bruised, but didn’t have any puncture wounds, Mendel said.
Dogs Attacked by Coyotes Near Santa Fe

I've never carried a gun while hiking with or without my big dog. But if they are that aggressive and attack, they will be shot, not withstanding what the Forest Service says about protecting their habitat.

1 posted on 07/12/2012 7:55:48 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave

We’ve got bears, coyotes and wildcats up here.

I won’t go walking alone in the woods nor without a larger caliber sidearm.


2 posted on 07/12/2012 7:58:59 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: LegendHasIt; Rogle; leapfrog0202; Santa Fe_Conservative; DesertDreamer; OneWingedShark; ...
Both articles are free to read.

NM list PING!

I may not PING for all New Mexico articles. To see New Mexico articles by topic click here: New Mexico Topics

To see NM articles by keyword, click here:New Mexico Keywords

To see the NM Message Page, click here: New Mexico Messages

(The NM list is available on my FR homepage for anyone to use. Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from the list.)

3 posted on 07/12/2012 7:59:54 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: CedarDave

Like my governor Rick Perry, I always pack when walking my dog. My lil’ mini dachshund would not stand a change against coyotes, but coyotes would not stand a chance against me and my side-arm friend.


4 posted on 07/12/2012 8:01:20 AM PDT by lormand (A Government who robs Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul)
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To: CedarDave
Varmint Rules Mnemonic: S--S--S

Shoot...
Shovel...
....&
Shutup!

...very effective...

B safe...

5 posted on 07/12/2012 8:03:19 AM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: CedarDave

Here in ETX I see a coyote about once a week on my property. I tried for 15 years until I gave up on free range ducks and geese as I was providing regular meals for these critters.

At least my horses aren’t at risk and I have one little fireball of a donkey who would take them on in a NY minute.


6 posted on 07/12/2012 8:06:45 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: CedarDave

I don’t have a politically correct answer to this...I am old enough to remember when coyote trappers were popular and the government had a coyote elimination program and actually paid people to hunt and poison coyotes. From my observations coyotes in small numbers are much better behaved.


7 posted on 07/12/2012 8:10:36 AM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: CedarDave

“County ordinance, any dog or other domestic animal within a county park, trail or open space area shall be restrained by a leash.”

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a CAT on a leash...


8 posted on 07/12/2012 8:12:29 AM PDT by babygene (Figures don't lie, but liars can figure...)
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To: CedarDave
Coyotes eat anything - even people if they run. Small children would be a treat. They love domestic cat. They'll eat large dogs, goats, calves, deer, anything.

Coyotes run in packs. They send out the weakest member of the pack to intimidate and distract the prey. The others circle around the intended victim to catch it if it runs. If the prey runs, it's edible. If it puts up a good fight, and wins against the weakest member, it's not edible.

We have them around here, and they have no natural predators to control them. We can hear them yipping in the woods at night.
ALL animals get locked up at night, and people don't walk alone past sundown unless they're armed.

Putting carnivorous animals at the top of the food chain is a very, very bad idea.

9 posted on 07/12/2012 8:15:55 AM PDT by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")
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To: CedarDave

My neighbors have a huge Anatolian shepherd that lives at my house most of the time. He is a big baby that wouldn’t do well in a fight with coyotes. I would have to shoot the coyotes.


10 posted on 07/12/2012 8:16:35 AM PDT by pallis
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To: CedarDave

The landowner whose property I used to hunt deer on made it very clear that if he ever found out that I had passed up a chance to shoot a coyote (ie. in order not to scare any deer which may be close by) he would never let me hunt on his property again. He called them ‘varmits” and was very serious that killing every one I saw was a condition of setting up a stand on his land. I was happy to oblige.


11 posted on 07/12/2012 8:16:45 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: CedarDave

Our Eastern coyotes have cross-bred with wolves, can go up to 60lbs, and hunt humans. “Canadian woman killed by coyotes
A Canadian woman has died from injuries sustained when she was attacked by two coyotes while hiking in eastern Canada.”
Now...ask me again why I carry a gun.


12 posted on 07/12/2012 8:20:39 AM PDT by W.Lee (No compromise)
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To: babygene
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a CAT on a leash...

How come it's domestic animals that need to be leashed and not the coyotes?

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was infiltrated by Agenda 21 types in the 70s and they're slowly re-shaping the face of America to suit the needs of wildlife, not people.

13 posted on 07/12/2012 8:21:42 AM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: CedarDave

I know that the Acme Corporation manufactures a number of items that can be used to keep the coyote population in check, such as dynamite that explodes prematurely, atomic powered roller skates (which cause coyotes to zoom over the side of a cliff), and giant slingshots designed to slam them into a nearby tree.


14 posted on 07/12/2012 8:22:36 AM PDT by GreenHornet
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To: CedarDave

15 posted on 07/12/2012 8:23:55 AM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: CedarDave

“...cool mountain meadows for exercise...”

My ass! People take their dogs out to “exercise” to pee and crap in places other than their own property. Dog owners should be fined or prohibited from bringing their mutts into any park or on any hiking trails where humans walk, unless they have a pooch poop bag over their head.


16 posted on 07/12/2012 8:27:36 AM PDT by SgtHooper (The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list.)
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To: CedarDave

Traditionally, coyotes are underground creatures. Before the white man came, coyotes lived underground. Early trappers and mountain men wrote about seeing coyotes sleeping underground. It’s our mandate that we put as many sleepy coyotes under ground as possible!


17 posted on 07/12/2012 8:29:25 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: GreenHornet
Or one of ACME's best sellers for coyote destruction ...


18 posted on 07/12/2012 8:29:48 AM PDT by BlueLancer ("No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full" (Sulla))
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To: Dudoight

When we lived in East TX we used to hear them late late at night, yipping, I assume they were hunting. We lived in a small subdivision but it was out in the county, so pretty rural. I would never have an outdoor cat out there, it would be a coyote meal in a heartbeat. My large dogs (goldens and spinoni) were kept in a fenced yard and in the house but I worried when I took small puppies out in the dark, between owls and coyotes.

I also used to see them on occasion, driving to work, right in the middle of town. It was right before sunup and I guess they were headed home, but that means they were wandering around town during the night.


19 posted on 07/12/2012 8:34:52 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Wings-n-Wind

BTTT


20 posted on 07/12/2012 8:35:31 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Doggie PING!


21 posted on 07/12/2012 8:40:45 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Dudoight

Coyetes make excellent AR-15 target practice.

I didn’t know “a NY minute” was allowed in TX?


22 posted on 07/12/2012 8:41:24 AM PDT by G Larry (I'm under no obligation to be a passive victim!)
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To: Tammy8; CedarDave

They are called “wild animals” for a reason-they are not pets, and because people move into their areas and feed them, they lose their natural fear of humans. If you kill all the predators in a rural area, soon that area will be overrun with nasty pests-mostly rodents-proper natural balance is a must.

While no creature is safe in too-large numbers, it sounds like these hikers were in the animals’ territory, not on a city street. The trail/forest is not a dog park-the dog is an attractant for predators-leave the dog at home.

In the woods that border my property, there are coyotes, at least one mountain lion, big feral hogs (most dangerous of all) and the odd pack of abandoned dogs. I do not hike after dusk, and I do not take my dog on the hiking trail, ever-I do not want her eaten.

I was taught if you smell, hear or see tracks of a predator, make noise and look large, don’t turn your back, get the hell off that trail NOW, and do not run. I hike nearly every day, and I follow that advice.

Sometimes I hike with a firearm, depending on how far onto the deep woods I intend to go, and I always carry a walking stick and make lots of noise so that I don’t act like a prey animal-I’m aware that I live in the animals’ dining room, and show the proper caution.


23 posted on 07/12/2012 8:56:16 AM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: concerned about politics

I heard a dog get torn to pieces by what sounded like a pack of coyotes, and it was one of the saddest, most unpleasant sounds I have ever heard.

I didn’t see what was happening because it was distant through the woods, but that was just what it was. No mistaking it for anything else.

It was awful to hear.


24 posted on 07/12/2012 8:58:55 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: brytlea

To be fair, I don’t blame coyotes for doing what they do. It is what they are made to do,and what they should do. Neither should WE be blamed for doing what WE should do.

S-S-S indeed.


25 posted on 07/12/2012 9:03:30 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: SgtHooper

I agree 100% with you-dogs and cats are pets, and pets (and their messes) should remain on your property, and not happily running loose in the meadows, especially where there is livestock nearby-that is just about any rural area here. The fine in this county for an unleashed dog is astronomical, with good reason.


26 posted on 07/12/2012 9:06:40 AM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: concerned about politics
Coyotes run in packs

Most of the time when I see yotes...they are alone.

Putting carnivorous animals at the top of the food chain is a very, very bad idea.

I guess God was wrong then........

27 posted on 07/12/2012 9:07:35 AM PDT by Osage Orange (8675309)
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To: Texan5
They are called “wild animals” for a reason-they are not pets, and because people move into their areas and feed them, they lose their natural fear of humans. If you kill all the predators in a rural area, soon that area will be overrun with nasty pests-mostly rodents-proper natural balance is a must.

You have it backwards. Back in the 80's and 90's when I lived in Santa Fe, you could hike up in area of the ski basin and never see a coyote. The parking lot to the several trails was full and people (and dogs) were frequent on the trails for the first couple of miles and less so as you got further in to the areas like Puerto Nambe, Santa Fe Baldy and Lake Katherine. Great for day hikes and weekend backpacking. Coyotes have invaded the area and are now as much of the varmints as the rodents you mention. They now threaten the fawns and and maybe the young of the bighorn sheep on the east side of the mountains. Dogs and (maybe small humans) are just as much a prey animal to them as other small or young mammals.

28 posted on 07/12/2012 9:10:21 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Texan5
I agree 100% with you-dogs and cats are pets, and pets (and their messes) should remain on your property, and not happily running loose in the meadows, especially where there is livestock nearby-that is just about any rural area here.

One of the biggest issues when hiking in National Forests, including wilderness areas, are livestock. Lots more cowpies than dog poop and they trash out riparian habitat and streams. Don't even think about drinking from them without filtering or iodine tablets.

29 posted on 07/12/2012 9:18:11 AM PDT by CedarDave
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To: rlmorel

What does S-S-S indeed mean?


30 posted on 07/12/2012 9:30:20 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Texan5

“The trail/forest is not a dog park-the dog is an attractant for predators-leave the dog at home.”

Take the dog, as it may be the warning/distraction for a predator confrontation which could otherwise result in your becoming predator scat.

In the ultimate extreme, your dog is there to protect you and, if necessary, die so that you may live.


31 posted on 07/12/2012 9:31:54 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: brytlea

Shoot-Shovel-Shutup!


32 posted on 07/12/2012 9:37:12 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: GladesGuru

Thank you. While I would scoop up after my own dog, frankly, out in a wilderness area there’s a lot more than dog poo to find. Back in the day I used to be able to walk with our dog in the woods and never had a second thought about it. Now everyone wants a rule to make every place exactly suit only themselves. Why there oughta be a law! Oh wait, that’s what started all this....


33 posted on 07/12/2012 9:37:17 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: rlmorel

Oh Doh! LOL


34 posted on 07/12/2012 9:38:19 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Osage Orange

At the top of the food chain is an omnivore with an array of weapons.

Take away those weapons, and those omnivores can drop pretty far down the chain.


35 posted on 07/12/2012 9:40:49 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: brytlea

Ha...to be fair, I had never seen that acronym till I read this thread, though I have heard the process referred to many times!


36 posted on 07/12/2012 9:42:11 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: rlmorel

Me either, but I’m always learning something new on FR.


37 posted on 07/12/2012 10:18:32 AM PDT by brytlea (An ounce of chocolate is worth a pound of cure)
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To: Tammy8
I don’t have a politically correct answer to this...I am old enough to remember when coyote trappers were popular and the government had a coyote elimination program and actually paid people to hunt and poison coyotes. From my observations coyotes in small numbers are much better behaved.

I recall back in the 50's there was a movement to eliminate the evil coyotes that were killing the nice bunny rabbits and bambis and an occasional farmer's sheep.

A few years after the government coyote elimination program that paid people to hunt and poison coyotes we had an explosion of rodents and the diseases they carried. After a number of useless attempts at programs, nature righted itself by increasing the number of predators to offset the number of varmints.

38 posted on 07/12/2012 10:30:09 AM PDT by oldbrowser (Your character is your fate.....fortune cookie)
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To: Texan5

What is “their” area or territory? At one time, virtually every place in the world was wild with few humans. There is no place that “belongs” to a wild critter. They have to adapt to us, not the other way around. I don’t favor indiscriminate killing of wild creatures, but we come first. As you’ve stated, predators have a place in our world. But there is no place we cannot go. Be careful where we go, yes.


39 posted on 07/12/2012 11:00:34 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: AnAmericanMother; Titan Magroyne; Badeye; SandRat; arbooz; potlatch; afraidfortherepublic; ...
WOOOF!

The Doggie Ping list is for FReepers who would like to be notified of threads relating to all things canid. If you would like to join the Doggie Ping Pack (or be unleashed from it), FReemail me.

40 posted on 07/12/2012 11:24:56 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: CedarDave

That sounds awful-I haven’t seen that livestock problem here-livestock must be confined to your property with a fence-if your cows/goats/etc get seen out, you get fined bigtime.

I live on a cliff over the water-which is patrolled and tested every day by fish and game for not only livestock crap, but pesticides and weedkillers that are used by people who ignore their deed restrictions. Those fines run as high as 10K, for obvious reasons, but the iodine tablets are a good thing to keep anyway.


41 posted on 07/12/2012 12:08:46 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: driftless2

Here, it is generally accepted that a city consisting of subdivisions with homes on less than 1/2 acre-30 miles away in SA, “city” lots are 1/4 acre or less, except in la-de-da gated neighborhoods. Cities have grocery stores, lots of commercial properties, etc. Obviously, except for a couple of greenway areas, SA is not a wildlife habitat area for anything but squirrels and birds.

That is why I don’t live there-I like it in the country where I grew up, but it is not for everyone. The nearest city-type groceries are at the general store, 5.6 miles away. There isn’t even a post office within 16 miles.

Lots out here are mostly 1 acre or more-and since early 2000, any new ones platted have to be over 2 1/2 acres-it has been one lot, one dwelling, no exceptions for over 30 years. This area is resource-conservation oriented-there are also two large state designated wilderness areas in close proximity-you cannot build within several acres of them. So, I definately live in the territory of the wild animals-state fish and game and natural resource commission says I’m welcome to live here, hike, bike and enjoy, but the critters were here first. Pets running loose teach the predators to be lazy (they normally eat deer, birds, varmints etc), and to hang out near humans for easy meals of what my daughter calls soft, slow city pets. They also lose their fear of humans, which makes them dangerous.

A neighbor who moved here from the city loved letting her two standard poodles run free-thought it made them happy, even though she was fined twice, and told they would end up eaten by predators or being shot by a rancher for running livestock. She ignored the sheriff, and soon after, one of the dogs fell victim to the resident mountain lion, and she demanded the game warden shoot the cat. She was told to get over it, mountain lion was here first and let that be a lesson in “real” country living.

She was also told that if the remaining poodle was caught running loose, it would be picked up and re-homed with someone who would keep it safe. As I said, living in the boonies it is not for everyone-the rules are different where humans are not the only ones who matter.


42 posted on 07/12/2012 1:04:41 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: oldbrowser

The problem is the government goes too far one way- then too far the other. No common sense, no happy in-between.


43 posted on 07/12/2012 1:25:33 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: GladesGuru

My dog is a Siberian Husky-not exactly a guard dog, and I do not have pets to have them tempt predators, then save me from them-that is what my pistol and can of pepper spray are for, and they will be more effective. Dog stays home, in front of the TV watching Animal Planet when I’m not there.

If I’m unarmed, a pack of feral hogs, a full grown mountain lion or even a pack of feral dogs would make short work of both my 70 lb. dog and my 108 lb self before anyone could help-hogs packs and mountain lions have brought down large men in other places. If I don’t have the sense to safely hike in the woods, then I really don’t have any business walking across the road here.


44 posted on 07/12/2012 1:31:55 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: CedarDave

Up until the 80s many people trapped and shot varmints all over NM; coyotes, fox, bobcat- furs were worth some money and regulations were few. Fur prices plunged, regulations grew and nearly everyone quit trapping and varmint shooting it just wasn’t politically correct- anti fur people caused money to dry up and too many laws to break. People were keeping the numbers down but other people changed that. Now we have large groups of people that don’t want the “cute” varmints killed, instead they want to feed them- yes we have idiots around here that put out dog food for coyotes, skunks. I bet idiots around Santa Fe are doing it too and there are more idiots there. Population of varmints has exploded and people are moving more and more into their habitat.


45 posted on 07/12/2012 1:37:38 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: Texan5

New Mexico is a “fence out” state which means you must fence cattle, sheep, horses, etc. out. From the NM Livestock Board:
http://www.nmlbonline.com/documents/fencing1210.pdf

Also, national forests, including wilderness areas, allow cattle grazing. There are very few streams that are not polluted, at least somewhat, by livestock in the forest.


46 posted on 07/12/2012 1:38:19 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: Tammy8

The picture of a cowboy driving an old pickup with his dog beside him, and a rifle in a rack behind him is not just for show out here. If they see a coyote on their land, they will shoot it.


47 posted on 07/12/2012 1:45:18 PM PDT by CedarDave
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To: oldbrowser

I mentioned the rats and other varmints earlier-any time someone screws with the natural balance of things, chaos happens-I was told by a neighbor whose family has ranched here for 100+ years that once, hunters wanted all the coyotes and mountain lions killed off so they could have more deer to hunt.

Fortunately, because fish and game figured that if hunters with guns couldn’t compete with animal predators who didn’t use guns, they probably didn’t need to hunt that close to humans and livestock, either-so now, you can’t hunt here unless you are 10 acres or more from a property line...


48 posted on 07/12/2012 1:46:02 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: SgtHooper
unless they have a pooch poop bag over their head.

Maybe somebody should explain this in a little more detail to you.

Perhaps a sketch would help.

49 posted on 07/12/2012 1:48:15 PM PDT by Eaker (When somebody hands you your arse, don't give it back saying "This needs a little more tenderizing.")
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To: CedarDave

Of course I know that, I live with one. The difference is when fur prices were high professional trappers had trap lines all over each with several hundred traps out, most of the cowboys also had a small trap line in their camp country and called and shot coyotes for extra money; that is where we got our Christmas money when our kids were little. People went out of their way to get the varmints when they were worth something. Then the anti-fur people convinced people not to wear fur so the price plunged. People still kill varmints of course, but no where near the number they used to. Shooting one on sight here and there is far different than many people actively hunting or trapping all they can get, which is what used to keep the numbers down.


50 posted on 07/12/2012 2:05:18 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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