Posted on 08/10/2012 11:02:37 AM PDT by Retain Mike
An excellent debate point. That's what I'm looking for.
My first reaction is it wouldnt have worked, because it didnt, but I asked my son who dealt with this issue in a debate for his input also. Japan had already experienced two actual nuclear detonations and the War Faction remained intransigent. Remember they had already experienced firebombing of 60 cities. The first raid on Tokyo destroyed 20 square miles and killed more people than either bomb. From their behavior the Japanese leadership seemed comfortable with incomprehensible death figures.
After Hirohito recorded his broadcast to the Japanese people there was still an attempt to capture him and destroy the records that were to be used in the radio broadcast.
I think a demonstration would have been meaningful to Westerners but not the Japanese. Here is a letter to the editor I wrote that speaks to the issue,
Japans Intransigent Leaders Actuated the Atomic Bombs
Arriving at VJ day demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foreseeing the probability of defeat, appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths.
The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting Hirohito reluctantly invited Barron Hiranuma, who had fiercely disapproved the war strategy. Hiranuma maintained the Emperors spiritual essence was independent of any imposed government. He reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians, and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer, but remained unyielding.
At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the Voice of the Crane in the sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.
The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.
My response to the morons who bemoan us dropping the bomb is that it was worth it if it saved ONE American, and I KNOW non-hypothetically it saved at least one, him. This shot is of him and Grandmother at POW ball in 1947.
He was in captivity for 3.5 years (he ended up staying in the Navy for a total of about 32.5 years). Both passed away in 2006/2007 and are laid to rest in Arlington.
you are sooo right. The ratio is OK because both my maps are in kilometers, but I really messed up. Thank you.
Thanks for the reply. It makes sense that Sayle would have made that point then, since as you point out that was a mainstream Japanese view. As I said, Sayle lived in Japan for 30 years — up to 2002. I’m sure he sympathized with them, as most mainstream, popular journalists do with our enemies. Sayle also interviewed mass murderer Che Guevara at one point, and even Kim Philby, and though I haven’t read the interviews, I’ll bet they were sympathetic, especially with Che Guevara.
From my own experiences I agree the Japanese want to portray themselves as innocent victims, completely. I visited the Hiroshima Peace Park and I can tell you there isn’t the slightest reference to Japanese militarism or aggression. The bombings are portrayed as bolt-out-of-the-blue atrocities, on a par with the Holocaust.
I’ll have to read up more on the “final battles” debate and preparations by the Japanese. Your point that they didn’t prepare for a Soviet invasion is a strong argument against their mythical fear of the Soviets, among other points.
There was a book about the Japanese nascent nuclear bomb effort — can’t recall the title. I have it at home, but now I’m traveling. You may already know of it.
Did (does? -- if he's still alive) your father have enduring contempt for the Japanese, and what did he think of MacArthur?
Hey, no problem. That durned metric system will get you every time! I figured it was probably square kilometers. Good article, none the less. I’m a WWII buff, so I already knew the details, but still good for the uninformed.
My father was a Marine at Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Tarawa, and Saipan, and was scheduled for the invasion of Japan. So add me to the list of those who might not even be here except for the atomic bombs.
Truman did exactly what he had to do...no more,and no less.For him to have inadequately dealt with the Japanese government and military,thus unnecessarily prolonging the war,it could have been said that he had the blood of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians on his hands.OTOH,taking your course...exacting vengeance upon the Japanese...would have been equally immoral.If not criminal.
Apparently the demonstration in Hiroshima wasn’t enough to end the war. Would a demonstration in an unpopulated location have done the trick?
I broke this post into several letters. This year I sent the below one to about 40 different places. People either can’t or refuse to understand the pervasive Japanese mentality of the time. When Hirohito decided enough was enough the whole people from the home islands to Burma complyed. Otherwise they were prepared to participate in an unspeakable slaugther.
From: Retain Mike
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:57 AM
To: WSJ Letters (wsj.ltrs@wsj.com)
Subject: Japans Intransigence Brought Forth Atomic Bombs
Arriving at VJ day demonstrated the critical role Kokutai played in surrender. Any prominent Japanese lived within an intimate spiritual fabric of Emperor, citizen, land, ancestral spirits, government, and Shinto religion. Emperor Hirohito foreseeing the probability of defeat, appointed a Peace Faction in January 1944. However, he and his advisors conducted political kabuki through twenty months of continuous defeats, fire bombings of over 60 cities, and 1.3 million additional Japanese deaths.
The Japanese Privy Council debated the Final Battles arguments into physical and mental exhaustion for eleven hours following the Nagasaki bomb on August 9. For the final meeting Hirohito reluctantly invited Barron Hiranuma, who had fiercely disapproved the war strategy. Hiranuma maintained the Emperors spiritual essence was independent of any imposed government. He reproved Foreign Minister Togo for never making concrete proposals to the Russians, and Minister Anami for accepting limitless nuclear warfare deaths without any opportunity to retaliate. The ministers had no answer, but remained unyielding.
At impasse Hirohito, the god-king, spoke the Voice of the Crane in the sweltering, underground bunker. He would bear the unbearable, conclude the war, and transform the nation. Only then did Japan contact Swiss and Swedish foreign offices to commence negotiations with allied belligerents.
The atomic bombs removed the Final Battles argument, allowing the War Faction to relent, Hirohito to assume his unprecedented roll, and no one to lose face. Their cabal remained within the fabric of Japanese from all eras who had sacrificed for Emperor and Empire.
It might be even worse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DueSvcjn810
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