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Knife-wielding man gunned down by cops in Times Square
NYPost.com ^ | 8/12/21012 | LARRY CELONA, AARON FEIS and ANNIE KARNI

Posted on 08/12/2012 4:28:33 AM PDT by raybbr

Cops shot a knife-wielding maniac dead on a packed Midtown street yesterday after several officers drew their weapons and chased him at gunpoint through Times Square.

“Shoot me! Shoot me!” the armed madman shouted at a crowd of more than 20 cops, who had followed him for several blocks and blasted him with pepper spray before cornering him on Seventh Avenue near West 38th Street, according to witness Robert James.

The furious 51-year-old finally lunged at the officers with his 11-inch butcher knife, leading two cops to blast him in the torso, groin and arms at about 3 p.m., police said.

SNIP

Cops shot a knife-wielding maniac dead on a packed Midtown street yesterday after several officers drew their weapons and chased him at gunpoint through Times Square.

“Shoot me! Shoot me!” the armed madman shouted at a crowd of more than 20 cops, who had followed him for several blocks and blasted him with pepper spray before cornering him on Seventh Avenue near West 38th Street, according to witness Robert James.

The furious 51-year-old finally lunged at the officers with his 11-inch butcher knife, leading two cops to blast him in the torso, groin and arms at about 3 p.m., police said.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: banglist; doyoufeelluckypunk; goaheadmakemyday; knifecontrol; mustbeangryteaparty; nannybloomberg; newyork; obama; obamason; obamasupporter; pepperspray; suicidebycop; taser; timesquare; timesquarecrazy; timessquare; timessquarecrazy; timessquareshooting
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Mayor Doomber will be all over knives by tomorrow!

Better hide your kitchen knives. They soon will be unwelcome in NYC.

1 posted on 08/12/2012 4:28:38 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: raybbr
“Shoot me! Shoot me!” the armed madman shouted

Always good to see our men in blue give the citizens what they want.

Can't tell by the photo but it looks as if the crazy guy was uhh, you know one of Jessies people. Since he was shot so many times can we expect the Sharpton/Jackson teams to descend for a bit of face time?

As Sharpton said, "RESIST WE MUCH!!"

2 posted on 08/12/2012 4:34:09 AM PDT by beenaround
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To: raybbr

“Shoot me! Shoot me!” the armed madman shouted at a crowd of more than 20 cops ..

In the old days one cop would have have promptly handled this situation .


3 posted on 08/12/2012 4:34:35 AM PDT by sushiman
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To: raybbr

NYPost knows 38th Street is not Times Square.

why did the cops get so close that his knife was dangerous? Yes, he must have continued walking south on 7th and there was no way to clear the streets and sdidewalks fast enough. And no fast way to disarm him without getting close or shooting him. He was approaching 34th street and 7th a very busy & crowded intersection.


4 posted on 08/12/2012 4:35:34 AM PDT by SMGFan (SMGfan is not "Sub Machine Gun" fan)
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To: raybbr

He musta been all hopped up on large sodas


5 posted on 08/12/2012 4:40:22 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: beenaround

If I had a son he would have looked like...........


6 posted on 08/12/2012 4:44:55 AM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: raybbr

Amazing that in the middle of Times Square, the precinct HQ had no non-lethal options apart from pepper spray. You’d think they’d have tasered him from multiple directions. Given NYC juries, they’re looking at a multi-million dollar payout to the guy’s kin. I have to wonder if it was another Bloomberg edict that these cops be “armed” with pepper spray instead of tasers as their non-lethal standoff equipment.


7 posted on 08/12/2012 4:57:36 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: raybbr

For those not familiar with the NYC environment, precinct HQ’s have hundreds of cops assigned to them and are situated about a mile or less apart in Manhattan.


8 posted on 08/12/2012 5:01:59 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

“... no non-lethal options apart from pepper spray”.

IMHO, it was a good shoot. If NYPD had waited or tried a non-lethal means and a citizen got hurt... people would be criticizing them for not protecting them. He was acting crazy, had a large knife and mobile... suicide by cop was his choice (not NYPD’s)


9 posted on 08/12/2012 5:08:07 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: raybbr

Another angry white loner, I see.


10 posted on 08/12/2012 5:11:24 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (At what point does an escalated effort to remove this traitor commence, and what form does it take?)
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To: momtothree
IMHO, it was a good shoot. If NYPD had waited or tried a non-lethal means and a citizen got hurt... people would be criticizing them for not protecting them. He was acting crazy, had a large knife and mobile... suicide by cop was his choice (not NYPD’s)

I share your view. It's just that they had pepper spray on hand when they should have had tasers. And the ubiquity of patrol cars (not to mention precinct HQ's, which are within a mile of each other) tells me that tasers are not part of the standard non-lethal NYPD kit. The long record of multi-million dollar payouts from NYPD entanglements in dubious but successful (thanks to NYC juries) wrongful death lawsuits should have prepped them for this circumstance.

11 posted on 08/12/2012 5:20:17 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: momtothree
If NYPD had waited or tried a non-lethal means and a citizen got hurt...

By the way, they pepper-sprayed the guy. It just annoyed him. Tasers pack a lot more punch, and area hospital emergency rooms are typically no further than a mile away if the tasered perp goes into cardiac arrest.

12 posted on 08/12/2012 5:25:08 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

I am unsure how close an officer must get to a suspect to use a taser? If it is relatively close... couldn’t that have risked the officer more than shooting this guy? My point is that from the article... it seems like the suspect was very mobile. If one officer, for example, tried to move in closer to taze him.. he would then be in the “line of fire” from the other officers. (thus, risking his own life in attempting to taze).


13 posted on 08/12/2012 5:32:01 AM PDT by momtothree
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To: momtothree
I am unsure how close an officer must get to a suspect to use a taser? If it is relatively close... couldn’t that have risked the officer more than shooting this guy? My point is that from the article... it seems like the suspect was very mobile. If one officer, for example, tried to move in closer to taze him.. he would then be in the “line of fire” from the other officers. (thus, risking his own life in attempting to taze).

The range is 35 feet. Pepper spray maxes out at 20 feet, but the effect at maximum range is severely attenuated for the same reason that spray deodorant isn't generally applied from yards away. Tasers are just as effective at maximum range, since the juice has to go through all those wires anyway. If you're close enough to pepper spray someone, you're close enough to taser him.

14 posted on 08/12/2012 5:42:12 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Has anybody tied him to the Tea Party yet?


15 posted on 08/12/2012 5:49:25 AM PDT by GeorgiaDawg32 (This tagline for rent. Contact GeorgiaDawg32 for pricing and excellent financing options.)
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To: Zhang Fei

You obviously are woefully ignorant in the dynamics of armed encounters.

A Taser fire two darts, each with its own wire. The wires are only about 20 ft long. These two darts diverge from each other. The farther they travel before they hit the target makes it more likely that one will miss completely, failing to complete the circuit, and rendering the shot useless.

A Taser also only fires one shot at a time, once you’ve expended the cartridge, you have to pull the old one off the front of the Taser, grab another one, snap it into place, aim and fire again. A typical Taser shot is around 10 ft.

If you knew a little bit about reaction times, you would realize that if you missed at 20 ft, you DON’T HAVE ENOUGH TIME to either reload the Taser, or draw, aim, and fire your pistol before your opponent can close the distance and insert that 11 inch butcher knife in your gut. Google “Tueller Drill” and the 21 foot rule.

Another fact is that with todays medical care, bullet wounds are more survivable than knife wounds. Knives cut more veins and arteries, making it much more likely you’ll bleed out.


16 posted on 08/12/2012 5:57:20 AM PDT by E.Allen
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To: Zhang Fei

Regular Police Officers in the NYPD do not carry Tasers. Sergeants do, and there was no doubt at least one Sergeant on the scene (and likely more), but not the POs.


17 posted on 08/12/2012 6:03:16 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Zhang Fei

The maximum range is 35 ft, those are the red cartriges. They also come in 15, 21, 25, ft versions. Which do you think are more likely to be bought by the city purchasing dept (price goes up with range)?


18 posted on 08/12/2012 6:07:40 AM PDT by E.Allen
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To: raybbr

cowards perform suicide by cop....

....so now he screwed up the psyche of cops who would have rather just arrest this miscreant.


19 posted on 08/12/2012 6:11:32 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Vaquero

If this happen anywhere in Texas, it would be a non story


20 posted on 08/12/2012 6:19:00 AM PDT by shadeaud ( “Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8”. Just doing my duty a Christian)
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Why taze this guy? So he can survive and be a continuing threat to all who come in contact with him for another 20 years?


21 posted on 08/12/2012 6:22:18 AM PDT by Godwin1
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To: Godwin1

“Why taze this guy? So he can survive and be a continuing threat to all who come in contact with him for another 20 years?”

They need him alive until after the election. All these dead voters are starting to look bad....


22 posted on 08/12/2012 6:36:28 AM PDT by JoeDetweiler
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks raybbr. Bloomberg will lead the campaign to ban butcher knives!


23 posted on 08/12/2012 6:40:18 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: raybbr
Yep, I can see it coming.

Headlines about arsenals of steak knives being found in homes, "Suspect had a set of 8 steak knives concealed in kitchen drawer!" Or, "Mr. Schmuck had a device that held a complete set of kitchen knives."

Obviously we must control how many knives a person can own. Come up with a registration list for knives. And last but not least, BAN ALL ASSAULT KNIVES immediately.

This cannot be allowed to happen to our children.

24 posted on 08/12/2012 6:41:28 AM PDT by Flint
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To: Flint
We screen for knives in carry on luggage at the airport but the 9-11 hijackers sat in first class where diners are provided with metal cutlery.
25 posted on 08/12/2012 6:46:22 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Eric Holder's NAACP rally against the voter ID laws required the press to bring govt issue photo ID.)
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To: E.Allen

What about ‘tranquilizer guns’? Have I watched too many wildlife tag and release videos or do these actually exist - and work?


26 posted on 08/12/2012 6:53:01 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: raybbr

Had an event last week near Anchorage Alaska, State Troopers shot and killed a man holding a baseball bat in the middle of a four lane highway.

The whole thing started when the police tried to stop him for a bad tailight.


27 posted on 08/12/2012 6:59:53 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Vote for Sarah Palin, she is the cure to the disease and infection of socialism.)
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To: GeorgiaDawg32

No, but has the Reverand Al Sharpton been on the scene. Looks to me like a white cop shooting a minority - - that is a “no no” in the eyes of Sharpton.


28 posted on 08/12/2012 7:03:27 AM PDT by Mr. Wright
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To: beenaround

Looks like he’s WHITE. So, nothing to see here.


29 posted on 08/12/2012 7:32:09 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: Zhang Fei
It's just that they had pepper spray on hand when they should have had tasers. And the ubiquity of patrol cars (not to mention precinct HQ's, which are within a mile of each other) tells me that tasers are not part of the standard non-lethal NYPD kit. The long record of multi-million dollar payouts from NYPD entanglements in dubious but successful (thanks to NYC juries) wrongful death lawsuits should have prepped them for this circumstance.

Pepper spray is non lethal, guns can be lethal and tasers can be lethal, although less so.

I'm no expert on police procedures but I'm guessing that with the increase in tasering deaths, police procedures have become more binary.

Either you use non lethal force, pepper spray, or you use lethal force, a gun.

30 posted on 08/12/2012 7:44:53 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: unixfox

White? I dunno, maybe he’s a “White African American”


31 posted on 08/12/2012 7:45:09 AM PDT by beenaround
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To: E.Allen
You obviously are woefully ignorant in the dynamics of armed encounters.

My point is they should have tasered instead of pepper-sprayed him as they actually did. Once that failed, they should, of course, have perforated him. The pepper spray treatment was more dangerous for the cops. Note also that this was a dozen cops against one guy. This was probably why they were confident enough to pepper spray him instead of shooting him from the get-go. Again, the point of this isn't to criticize NYPD for its inhumanity against the common sword-wielding perp - it's to point out that having the right equipment against such individuals can reduce the number of wrongful death payouts for which the city has to shell out.

32 posted on 08/12/2012 7:46:44 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: momtothree
I am unsure how close an officer must get to a suspect to use a taser?

If it is relatively close... couldn’t that have risked the officer more than shooting this guy?

35 feet or less.

Yes.

33 posted on 08/12/2012 7:47:43 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Zhang Fei

Good to know; somehow I thought you had to actually touch someone with a taser.


34 posted on 08/12/2012 7:52:05 AM PDT by MonicaG (God bless our military! Praying and thanking God for you every day. Thank you!)
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To: raybbr

Why aren’t cops capable of dealing with crazy people without killing them?


35 posted on 08/12/2012 7:53:34 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: E.Allen

Thanks for the update to that post!


36 posted on 08/12/2012 7:53:53 AM PDT by MonicaG (God bless our military! Praying and thanking God for you every day. Thank you!)
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To: SampleMan
Why aren’t cops capable of dealing with crazy people without killing them?

You left off the part about the crazy person having a knife and you imply that cops haven't on numerous occasions subdued such people.

37 posted on 08/12/2012 7:58:26 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: shadeaud

I look forward to the day when this sort of @sshole is gunned down in Times Square by a law-abiding citizen instead of a group of police officers. It’s much cheaper and less messy that way.


38 posted on 08/12/2012 8:09:32 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: SMGFan

I saw shots of him that were taken at 42nd St. - near the police headquarters (the old recruiting station location) - so he definitely was in Times Square. It didn’t look like he was in the old garment district. My husband and I thought he was closer to 6th Avenue at one point.

And, believe me - to other posters - if you are walking down one of those streets - you do not want to have a large, crazed, high-as-a-kite man with a Ikea chef’s knife behind you. Good for the cops.


39 posted on 08/12/2012 8:12:27 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: SampleMan

-

Like “shoot the butcher knife out of his hand?”

That is crazy question.

This was a “teachable moment” for the rest of the OWS/crazies -

-


40 posted on 08/12/2012 8:13:21 AM PDT by devolve (-------------------- ------- "...maybe a little blow..." - Barack Hussein Obama Junior -------------)
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To: SampleMan

They peppered sprayed him first. He didn’t go down. That’s proof positive the creep was on some sort of crack/crystal meth drug. Just try dealing with that!


41 posted on 08/12/2012 8:14:30 AM PDT by miss marmelstein
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To: SampleMan; DarthVader
Why aren’t cops capable of dealing with crazy people without killing them?

when you get your "Take An Armed Lunatic to Lunch" campaign going please let us know.

42 posted on 08/12/2012 8:14:38 AM PDT by kingattax (99 % of liberals give the rest a bad name)
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To: FreeReign
I'm no expert on police procedures but I'm guessing that with the increase in tasering deaths, police procedures have become more binary. Either you use non lethal force, pepper spray, or you use lethal force, a gun.

I'm inclined to agree.

43 posted on 08/12/2012 8:18:20 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: SampleMan
If you've ever seen the NYPD deal with someone like this, you'd actually find yourself wondering if the police look upon knife-wielding lunatics as an employment opportunity.

I stepped out of a cab in midtown Manhattan some years ago (about four blocks from where this incident occurred) and found myself in the middle of one of the strangest scenes I've ever come across. For several moments I thought there was some kind of parade or police demonstration on Seventh Avenue that day. A large mass of police officers was moving slowly down the street, clearing people and traffic out of the way as they maintained what looked like some kind of a semi-organized formation. As they approached I could hear the loud rantings of a lunatic, and as the mass of cops walked by I could make some sense of the whole scene.

There was this crazy dude walking down Seventh Avenue shouting all kinds of nonsense to anyone who would listen, waving a large knife around as he made his way down the street. The mass of cops -- about 60 in all -- simply formed a large circle around him and cleared a path in front of him. None of the cops seemed to have any interest in apprehending him or dealing with him in any way. I stood there and watched the procession with a large group of befuddled (even amused) New Yorkers until they all disappeared around a corner a few blocks away.

Yeah, they have a funny way of dealing with knuckleheads like this in New York City. Seems like an awfully expensive way to do it, too.

44 posted on 08/12/2012 8:19:21 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Alberta's Child

Perhaps this time they hadn’t the men to escort him thru the streets.


45 posted on 08/12/2012 8:23:08 AM PDT by theDentist (FYBO/FUBO; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: Alberta's Child
Yeah, they have a funny way of dealing with knuckleheads like this in New York City. Seems like an awfully expensive way to do it, too.

In NYC, the cheapest way to deal with knife-wielding wackos is to subdue them. NYC juries tend to be over 50% Hispanic and black, and wrongful death cases against the NYPD routinely result in million plus payouts. Note that torts don't require unanimous jury verdicts, only majority ones.

46 posted on 08/12/2012 8:26:06 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Alberta's Child

In the NYC context, this shooting was an expensive mistake.


47 posted on 08/12/2012 8:27:08 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: raybbr

END knife violence, ban knives, thankfully there was a gun about which ended this idiot.


48 posted on 08/12/2012 8:59:56 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Zhang Fei

-

Capturing a killer usually results in at least 13 years before execution in a death penalty state.

NY state does not execute killers.

Appeals, sanity bullshirt, endless delays end up in a death penalty state well over thirteen million dollars in costs.

All this pansy crap ignores the fact that Obama’s son would do it again - this time to 74 year old women or a young child.

One or two NYPD officers would possibly let the creep attack citizen or LEO.

It is well past time for society to use a S&W pump 12 gauge on their center section and hang their bodies from lampposts until the pigeons finish snacking on them.

It is so easy to spot people on FR with no FAs or military or LEO experience or knowledge.

Mayor Bloomberg is a huge anti-gunner - but Bloomie will not defend this Obamacreep or slam the NYPD for terminating this crazy Barack Pansy.

Publicity, hearings, talk of a trial, sanity hearings, and the associated cost and crap would invite the attacks the ACLU and the “Justice Brothers” - right before the November election.

It is now over.

The fruitcase’s family can scream of lawsuits and “justice” all they want -

Obama, Eric Holder and his ACLU and New Barack Pansy buddies cannot do anything.

Let them deeply contemplate where their radical actions and agendas may lead them.

-


49 posted on 08/12/2012 9:05:15 AM PDT by devolve (-------------------- ------- "...maybe a little blow..." - Barack Hussein Obama Junior -------------)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle

Tranquilizer guns work when you have enough time to estimate the weight of the target, measure out the proper dosage in the dart, and (BIG AND) not have to worry that the target has already self medicated to the point that your dosage pushes him to a toxic level, thereby making it YOUR action that killed him.

Leaving you to explain to a jury why he’s dead when you clearly didn’t feel threatened enough to use lethal means.

Other than that, it’s a great idea.


50 posted on 08/12/2012 9:34:23 AM PDT by E.Allen
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