Two Leonardos found in 'Last Supper'

upi ^ | Aug. 18, 2012

[JoeProBono]

ROME, - A British art expert says two of the figures in Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece "The Last Supper" are actually self-portraits of the artist.

Ross King said this week that while not a lot is known about Da Vinci's physical appearance at the time he painted "The Last Supper," he is confident the noses on two of the apostles are a giveaway.

King has concluded the long hair, beards and Greek noses on the two matched up with a portrait of the Italian master drawn years later. Greek noses and prominent hair, King said, were "rarities for an Italian man of that period."

Italy's ANSA news agency said art historians long suspected Da Vinci painted himself into the work, but King told The Independent that no one had really taken the time to seriously look for it.

[JoeProBono]

Clues: According to Dr King, the portrait of a man in red chalk , believed to depict da Vinci around 1515, has similar features to those shown in the two apostles.

[layman]

Is it true ? ... who nose.

[nuconvert]

The two faces do look similar, but the noses in the painting look a lot sharper than the earlier self portrait nose.

[Sacajaweau]

So Leonardo said....I think two of these dudes should have my nose.....yeh, right !!!!

[BenLurkin]

[JoeProBono]

[ClearCase_guy]

Michaelangelo's "David" has a greek nose. Some folks believe that a greek nose is considered aesthetically perfect. It doesn't have to reflect any reality about a subject, it can just be used by an artist because it looks good.

So when you see a greek nose, it need not be a self-portrait of Leonardo, it may just be an artistic ideal.

[JoeProBono]

[Publius]

Where's the rabbit?

(obscure "South Park" reference)

[Calvin Locke]

Well, it's not exactly if he was painting the actual supper as it happened...

I would imagine that he painted [it] from his imagination, or a sketch from his imagination.

If he did use live models, perhaps they were related?

That's not to mention that it isn't exactly unheard of artists to use their own features, or variations thereof, in their paintings either.

[broken_arrow1]

Looks like there are two Leonardo De Caprio’s - their big mouths give them away.

[Vaduz]

What no pug?.

[Alex Murphy]

Hiya, Joe!

Maybe one was Leonardo's stunt double.

[Alex Murphy]

Well, it's not exactly if he was painting the actual supper as it happened...

Jesus: "We'd like a table for 26, please."
Waiter: "But there are only 13 of you..?"
Jesus: "True, but we're planning for everyone to sit on the same side...."

[edcoil]

Maybe Tom Hanks will make a movie out of it like he did when the last “expert” noted Mary Magdalene was at the table and she was the holy grail.

[oh8eleven]

Is it true ? ... who nose.

[JoeProBono]

[Sacajaweau]

I'm getting to abhor "experts". They put this "stuff" out there to get other experts to agree or disagree...ND THEY ALL GET GRANT MONEY !!!!!

Look how long the Turin bit has been out there...and how many have profited....and will profit in the future. Guess what....these mysteries will never be solved because "the whole truth" is not the criteria of "experts".

[Utah Binger]

Hmmmm. An Original Don Aceto says it well!

[Publius]

Off to the Hare Club for Men!

[JoeProBono]

[Young Werther]

Pass me a bone!

[reagan_fanatic]

Liberal.

[Flag_This]

George C. Scott was Patton and Leonardo?!!! Inconceivable!

[JoeProBono]

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

No kangaroos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-v-f2mT94Y

[Daffynition]

[Yaelle]

I heard it like:

“What did Jesus say to his disciples at the Last Supper?”

“Guys, you have to sit on this side of the table if you want to be in the picture.”

[JoeProBono]

[Utah Binger]

LOL!

[TigersEye]

Leonardo was fascinated with faces and was known to follow people around town to sketch them. He likely sketched hundreds (if not thousands) of faces. With a log of sketches like that is it believable that he needed to use his own face twice in the Last Supper painting?

[Joe 6-pack]

Don't forget the Redneck Last Supper...

[JoeProBono]

[Jim from C-Town]

‘Well, it's not exactly if he was painting the actual supper as it happened...’

Really? According to a best selling book and movie by noted Catholic Heretic and hater Dan Brown, Everything DaVinci did in that painting was a clue to how the Church has lied, and murdered to protect that lie, about all things Christ since the beginning of time!

I mean really, who would you believe 266 Bishops Of Rome in Apostolic Succession from St. Peter to Pope Benedict XVI, or the brain farts of Dan Brown?

[Daffynition]

H3lls b@lls! Settle the theory once and for all with a game of R P & S.

[Daffynition]

Gone-to-the-dogs Last Supper...

[PJ-Comix]

Actually THREE Leonardos. One of the apostles looks like he has the earlobe of Leonardo DeCaprio..

[Daffynition]

Tell me, if am I wrong...but isn’t the Da Vinci Code a work of *fiction*? and characterized as such?

[JoeProBono]

[Calvin Locke]

I don’t really know much of the specifics about Da Vinci. I did d/l “The Notebooks of ...[LDV]” from Gutenberg a few months ago, but haven’t gotten around to reading it yet.

[Calvin Locke]

With a log of sketches like that is it believable that he needed to use his own face twice in the Last Supper painting?

I was just thinking. It's a wall painting, It's deteriorated over the centuries, and has been repaired a number of times.

My point being that the faces are no longer what Da Vinci created.

From Wiki:

This restoration [most recent] took 21 years and on May 28, 1999 the painting was put back on display, ... When it was unveiled, considerable controversy was aroused by the dramatic changes in colours, tones, and even some facial shapes.

[windcliff]

I think that’s Larry Fine 4th on the right.

[TigersEye]

I didn't really intend my comments to be a rebuttal of your post. I was using your comments more as a springboard to challenge the 'expert's' theory.

I have always been a fan of DaVinci. Bought the Dover two volume edition of his notebooks in the '70s. Sounds like you found the same thing from another publisher. There is a lot of material there to go through. I found it fascinating but it doesn't read like a book since it's a collection of notes and sketches.

I read more about what his life and what the times in Florence were like from biographies like "(LDV;) Pathfinder of Science" by Henry S. Gillette.

[JoeProBono]

[TigersEye]

It's a wall painting, It's deteriorated over the centuries, and has been repaired a number of times. My point being that the faces are no longer what Da Vinci created.

You're quite right about that. Undoubtedly some fine detail has been lost and altered. Even the original wasn't exactly a photograph that facial recognition software could pull an accurate identity out of.

But an 'expert' could. /s lol

Good find from Wiki!

I found it amusing that DaVinci might have to use his own face for lack of subjects. He was considered a prolific artist in a place and time of prolific artists. Also, the Last Supper was painted on a wall in a monastery where there were many men who would have had at least some time to sit for a sketch and would have been glad to assist the Maestro in a noble project done primarily for their benefit.

[Verginius Rufus]

There is a much earlier depiction of the Last Supper in Ravenna in the basilica of Sant’Apollinare Nuovo (possibly 6th century A.D.). It has everyone on the same side, but with Jesus at one end (extreme left from the viewer’s perspective). Supposedly that was the custom so that the servers could bring the food and set it before people easily.

[Jim from C-Town]

Yes, it is.

Now let Brown write a book about the prophet Mohamed and Islam like he writes about Catholic Church and see whether he can afford the needed security.

[Daffynition]

I see. You are condoning *Going all Muslim on Dan Brown*

http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Tradition-Islamic-Thought-Cambridge/dp/0521653940

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks JoeProBono. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[JoeProBono]

Last Supper in Ravenna in the basilica of Sant’Apollinare Nuovo 6th-century mosaic