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NY Judge: Poker's Not Gambling Under Federal Law
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Poker-Federal-Court-Ruling-Skill-Chance-Gambling-New-York-Judge-166983646.html ^

Posted on 08/22/2012 2:03:10 PM PDT by Dusty Road

A federal judge ruled Tuesday that poker is more a game of skill than chance and cannot be prosecuted under a law created to stop organized crime families from making millions of dollars from gambling.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnewyork.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: gambling; poker

1 posted on 08/22/2012 2:03:14 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

Right...that’s why you had to have “a card” to get into the games here...And the big game was hearts.


2 posted on 08/22/2012 2:11:55 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Dusty Road

When I saw this all I could think was poor Mike Caro.

The NappyOne


3 posted on 08/22/2012 2:18:02 PM PDT by NappyOne
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To: Dusty Road

I was looking for a clip of the the W.C. Fields quote of “Isn’t this Gambling?” “Not the way I do it.” from My Little Chickadee..

But this was the closest I could get to Fields on gambling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qndcrnOOBA


4 posted on 08/22/2012 2:22:55 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: NappyOne

I love the game.


5 posted on 08/22/2012 2:27:00 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

This judge needs to be impeached.


6 posted on 08/22/2012 2:27:34 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Why?


7 posted on 08/22/2012 2:29:13 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

Unlike most other games of chance, especially the RIGGED casino games, poker has identifiable odds equal to everyone in the game not just rigged for the house.

A person well versed in odds for their hand, over time, will win against someone not as skilled. Skill will eventually override the chance factor. Math skills and the ability to bluff are very powerful factors.


8 posted on 08/22/2012 2:47:49 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: Dusty Road

In actuality, a skilled person playing poker is less of a gambler than the average investor in Wall St. who will always be sucking hind teat after the Wall St. boys take care of their buddies.


9 posted on 08/22/2012 2:50:17 PM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
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To: Dusty Road
a law created to stop organized crime families from making millions of dollars from gambling

Uh, no. A law created to allow the government and Indian tribes to make millions of dollars from gambling.

10 posted on 08/22/2012 2:54:24 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Wurlitzer

I think Black Jack also has better odds that other games outside of what poker has. Love to play poker. My dad and mom loved poker it was the saturday night family game with a few specials invited. But it wasn’t for big money just for the fun...house rules.....2 cent limit, nickle on the last card, 3 bumps only....Good gravy I’m 73 and still remember house rules....oh yea, table stakes only...no leaving the table to hit the piggy bank either...I learned by watching and a few hints whispered to me by dad (I was his favorite LOL)


11 posted on 08/22/2012 2:55:54 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: LegendHasIt
I was looking for a clip of the the W.C. Fields quote of “Isn’t this Gambling?” “Not the way I do it.” from My Little Chickadee.

From My Little Chickadee.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-H2jTJm2tJhbmYm/my_little_chickadee_1940_flower_belles_cousin_appears/

About 1:50 into the clip.

12 posted on 08/22/2012 2:59:00 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Recycled Olympic tagline Shut up, Bob Costas. Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!)
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To: Wurlitzer

I’ve been playing for close to 45 years and no I haven’t made it to the WSOP yet, came close in a couple of qualifiers but I’ve done pretty well. It’s payed for a few vacations and I’ve had a damn good time. I had the chance to meet Doyle Brunson back in 1958, he was in town playing with a few local farmers and oil men, Hermans Cafe in Big Spring TX. They were down from an all nighter at the Settles Hotel and dad and I were headed to the deer lease. this was about 5:00 AM. Met him again 5 years ago at the Rio in Vegas and he remembered that meeting. Very cool!


13 posted on 08/22/2012 3:01:07 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

This is a good ruling.


14 posted on 08/22/2012 3:07:16 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: goat granny

It’s the only game out there that your not playing against the house.


15 posted on 08/22/2012 3:08:29 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road
This judge:

{a) is a poker player who doesn't want to worry about this federal law;

(b) believes this federal law is stupid, so is giving it a narrow reading;

(c) has been bribed; or

(d) has been given an offer he can not refuse.

16 posted on 08/22/2012 3:13:55 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Repeal 16-17

I’ll take “B” for 500.


17 posted on 08/22/2012 3:15:45 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: KarlInOhio

Thanks!


18 posted on 08/22/2012 3:29:59 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Wurlitzer
Good post....

21 is somewhat like that.

19 posted on 08/22/2012 3:33:26 PM PDT by Osage Orange ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow, and when to reap, we should soon want bread.")
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To: DannyTN
I agree that he needs to be impeached, but not for this decision.

I thought I had recognized the name, and it turned out that I was right. Judge Weinstein has a well-earned reputation as an anti-gun zealot, and every gun-grabber who files a lawsuit against the firearms industry in New York (including NYC's dictator/mayor Michael Bloomberg) goes to great lengths to try to get their cases on his docket.

20 posted on 08/22/2012 3:33:38 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Dusty Road

This country’s laws are being ripped apart by judges such as this one. Poker is a card game where money is bet. How can this judge say this is not gambling? When money is bet, it is gambling, pure and simple. There will be much rhetoric about this one, but in the end, any sane person knows poker is gambling. This kinda reminds me of the lawyers who kept hammering the Supreme Court with that nonsense argument that the first amendment protects pornography. I am sure that the founding fathers did not spend months putting together an amendment to protect anything but political speech. Pornography is not political speech. It was a bad court decision. So is this one.


21 posted on 08/22/2012 3:43:53 PM PDT by maxwellsmart_agent
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To: maxwellsmart_agent

Money is bet daily in the stock market and a little goes to the house, money is bet daily in the lottery’s and a little goes to the house. I have more control and less risk playing poker than I do playing either of the above. I don’t gamble my money playing poker I just weigh whether or not I want to invest it.


22 posted on 08/22/2012 4:03:30 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: maxwellsmart_agent

It’s an interesting question. I don’t play poker, but have no problem with others doing so. But you single out the key point: it is a game that people wager on. They are wagering on themselves, but it’s still an unknown outcome with luck being a significant (if not singular) variable.

Is it against the law (as opposed to against the rules) for a professional athlete to bet on himself to win? I don’t know, but if it is, I think the same standard may apply to poker players. You could carve out poker by law, of course, but I don’t think you could say Phil Helmuth can gamble on himself in a game legally but Derek Jeter cannot.

Also, aren’t there negotiated pot settlements in poker, which would be kind of like tanking?


23 posted on 08/22/2012 4:11:04 PM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Mr. Bird

Can a golfer bet on himself can a tennis player bet on himself, we’re not talking teams where ones performance can hurt or influence the whole team.


24 posted on 08/22/2012 4:21:46 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: maxwellsmart_agent

When the Founders wrote the 1st Amendment....duels were still legal.


25 posted on 08/22/2012 4:26:16 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (While the wicked stand confounded, call me with Thy Saints surrounded.)
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To: Mr. Bird

Sir if I had to rely on luck to play the game of poker I would not play.


26 posted on 08/22/2012 4:26:28 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

Good point.


27 posted on 08/22/2012 4:27:24 PM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Dusty Road

“Play the Man... not the cards” Harvey Spector / “Suits”

TT


28 posted on 08/22/2012 4:50:08 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (Radical islam is islam. Moderate islam is the Trojan Horse.)
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To: Dusty Road

When playing high stakes poker “If you don’t know who the sucker is... it’s you”

TT


29 posted on 08/22/2012 4:52:32 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (Radical islam is islam. Moderate islam is the Trojan Horse.)
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To: Dusty Road

How about Dice? “Let’s Gamble!” Blue Duck, “Lonesome Dove”

TT


30 posted on 08/22/2012 4:55:32 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (Radical islam is islam. Moderate islam is the Trojan Horse.)
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To: TexasTransplant

Love that show, my labs name is Gus and my cats name is Woodrow.


31 posted on 08/22/2012 5:10:03 PM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

Lonesome Dove ...

I have the Books, the VCRs, the DVDs and it is saved on my TIVO... I watch it every year around Thanksgiving... my kids are grown now but I will bet they still know and can quote verbatim dialog from just about any scene

TT

I also love watching this often http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snxME3CDtvI


32 posted on 08/22/2012 5:47:55 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (Radical islam is islam. Moderate islam is the Trojan Horse.)
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To: Mr. Bird

I don’t think it is illegal for athletes to bet on themselves, it’s just banned by the leagues and athletic associations. If it were illegal for athletes to bet on themselves, then we’d have to ban any tournament that charges an entry fee and awards a cash prize. That’s no different than wagering on yourself winning the tournament.


33 posted on 08/22/2012 6:02:30 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Dusty Road

Right. Anyone hoping to “get lucky” and win at poker doesn’t know how to play the game correctly. Of course, I would be happy to volunteer my services to “educate” them :)


34 posted on 08/22/2012 6:05:10 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Alberta's Child; Dusty Road

I didn’t know about the gun grabbing. But come on, Poker’s not gambling? That’s ridiculous. Just because there is some skill as well as chance, doesn’t mean it’s not gambling. He is violating the spirit and intent of the law. And he’s probably been paid off to do it.


35 posted on 08/23/2012 12:05:26 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Alberta's Child; Dusty Road

I didn’t know about the gun grabbing. But come on, Poker’s not gambling? That’s ridiculous. Just because there is some skill as well as chance, doesn’t mean it’s not gambling. He is violating the spirit and intent of the law. And he’s probably been paid off to do it.


36 posted on 08/23/2012 12:05:38 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Danny if your gambling in a poker game you ain’t going to last long and let me add that poker is the only game where you get to look at cards before placeing a bet and have the option to check or fold, unless your in the big or little blind and then it’s only the blind value. All the other games you play against the house and against fixed odds but in poker it’s individual against individual.
Now for the sake of argument lets go ahead and call it gambling, the stock market is the biggest casino in the world then you have state lotteries. Call it what you want but these are gambling operations plain and simple hell you’ve even got bingo. It’s nothing more than a double standard. Let them open up poker parlors, that gives the players a safe comfortable place to enjoy the game they love and tax them like any other business. They’ll provide jobs and revenue to the local economey.


37 posted on 08/23/2012 2:57:06 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: maxwellsmart_agent

I don’t think the fact that money changes hands is the issue. The real issue, from what I understand, is that some things are not considered “gambling” as long as all of the money taken in by the participants is paid out again. My understanding is that this is what makes your typical office football pools or NCAA tournament pools legal.


38 posted on 08/23/2012 3:19:11 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Dusty Road

There is no comparison between poker and the stock market.

The stock market drives investment in industries. A properly diversified portfolio will return a profit over time.

Poker at best is a zero sum game. It’s not investing at all, it’s gambling. And everyone knows it’s gambling.

State Lotteries and bingo are gambling too. And everyone knows that.

Gambling hurts economies more than any entertainment value it provides. People gamble away money that should be going to pay their bills, leaving service providers with bad debts.


39 posted on 08/23/2012 8:21:38 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

The stock market drives investment in industries


And I chose whether or not to invest in a hand.

A properly diversified portfolio will return a profit over time.


Proper knowledge of the game and it’s odds return a profit over time.


40 posted on 08/23/2012 9:50:58 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: Dusty Road

Gambling produces nothing. Any profit you might make is a direct loss to someone else.

Industry produces items and services of value.


41 posted on 08/23/2012 10:18:56 AM PDT by DannyTN
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