Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Casino sues to recoup unshuffled deck wins
.upi. ^ | Aug. 22, 2012

Posted on 08/23/2012 8:17:52 AM PDT by JoeProBono

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J., Aug. 22 (UPI) -- A New Jersey casino is seeking the return of $1.5 million from 14 gamblers after officials discovered their mini-Baccarat table's deck of cards was unshuffled.

The Golden Nugget casino in Atlantic City is suing the 14 gamblers, who together totaled 41 winning bets in a row when the cards at the table began coming out in sequence, the New York Post reported Wednesday.

A casino spokeswoman said the gamblers were initially suspected of cheating, but officials soon discovered the cards -- which had been ordered as pre-shuffled from the Missouri manufacturer -- "were not shuffled at all."

"The gamblers unlawfully took advantage of the Golden Nugget when they caught on to the pattern and increased their bets from as little as $10 to $5,000," the casino said in a statement.

The lawsuit, which also names card manufacturer Gemaco Inc., seeks the return of $550,000 cash and $1 million in chips still held by the players after officials ceased honoring the chips from the table.

Benjamin Dash, a lawyer for three of the players who have countersued to have their chips honored, said the Golden Nugget's suit is "sending the message from the casino that 'when we win, we win, and when we lose, we win."


TOPICS: Cheese, Moose, Sister; Chit/Chat; Hobbies
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 08/23/2012 8:17:59 AM PDT by JoeProBono
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

The gamblers “unlawfully took advantage of Golden Nugget”?????? BBWWWWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


2 posted on 08/23/2012 8:21:21 AM PDT by bigdaddy45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono; Slings and Arrows; Revolting cat!
A New Jersey casino is seeking the return of $1.5 million from 14 gamblers after officials discovered their mini-Baccarat table's deck of cards was unshuffled. The Golden Nugget casino in Atlantic City is suing the 14 gamblers, who together totaled 41 winning bets in a row when the cards at the table began coming out in sequence, the New York Post reported Wednesday. A casino spokeswoman said the gamblers were initially suspected of cheating, but officials soon discovered the cards -- which had been ordered as pre-shuffled from the Missouri manufacturer -- "were not shuffled at all."

"You didn't cheat in Vegas so me am suing you!" - Bizarro Baccarat Dealer.


3 posted on 08/23/2012 8:22:30 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Only Obama put a dog on the roof of his mouth. Dogs are friends, not food.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bigdaddy45; Daffynition

The money you bring to Vegas stays in Vegas.


4 posted on 08/23/2012 8:23:45 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Only Obama put a dog on the roof of his mouth. Dogs are friends, not food.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

Legally, I don’t know if they have a case. But in the court of public opinion, this is a disaster of public relations if they go ahead with this and sue the winners.


5 posted on 08/23/2012 8:24:29 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

Legally, I don’t know if they have a case. But in the court of public opinion, this is a disaster of public relations if they go ahead with this and sue the winners.


6 posted on 08/23/2012 8:24:49 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

Seems to me that the casino needs to take it up with the card manufacturer.


7 posted on 08/23/2012 8:25:20 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono
"The gamblers unlawfully took advantage of the Golden Nugget when they caught on to the pattern and increased their bets from as little as $10 to $5,000," the casino said in a statement.

There is nothing UNLAWFUL about it. Ken Uston helped to establish that many years ago.

8 posted on 08/23/2012 8:25:43 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (The Click-&-Paste Media exists & works in Utopia, riding unicorns & sniffing pixy dust.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

Where I come from we would call this a crock of crap. Too bad casinos. You lose. Not our fault you screwed up.


9 posted on 08/23/2012 8:26:31 AM PDT by animal172 (Go Paul Ryan. Chew 'em up and spit 'em out.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

The suit seem wacky. None of the players was the dealer of these hands. So none of the players had an opportunity to alter the randomness of the card order. Since the dealer placed the cards into play, I don’t know how the players can be faulted for noticing the pattern while the dealer failed to.


10 posted on 08/23/2012 8:28:07 AM PDT by Sgt_Schultze (A half-truth is a complete lie)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

The card manufacturer and the casino’s employees hold the fault here. How long did it take the dealer and security to figure it out?


11 posted on 08/23/2012 8:29:14 AM PDT by Ingtar (Everyone complains about the weather, but only Liberals try to legislate it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

“Stella Avenue”. Della Street is named for Dell Street in my home city of Malden, MA where Earl Stanley Gardner lived.


12 posted on 08/23/2012 8:31:22 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

How could the dealer not have noticed? Where was the pit boss? Where was the shift supervisor? It is their jobs to notice this stuff.


13 posted on 08/23/2012 8:35:55 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Ingtar

How could the dealer not have noticed? Where was the pit boss? Where was the shift supervisor? It is their jobs to notice this stuff.


14 posted on 08/23/2012 8:36:07 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Former Proud Canadian

In the world of logic, there is no legal case here. Something in the back of my memory recalls state laws have specific language for dealing with situations like this. If my recollection is correct, the casino may win.


15 posted on 08/23/2012 8:40:05 AM PDT by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

You know, crap like this just gives those unwashed, syphilis rattled communist brains in OWS more ammo.

Why people continue to go to a business that openly admits they rig all the games in their favor is beyond me.

So here we have a card company that screwed up, a casino dealer dead from the neck up, casino security who seem no better than Keystone cops and who do the greedy bastards go after... the customer of course.

Casinos deserve to suffer an economic depression to teach them a lesson in customer service. Man up, you pathetic wimps in suits. Show some class, admit your mistake and use it as a lesson. If it were not for mob protection and corrupt politicians, consumer advocates would have shut down casinos years ago.

I have zero problems with gambling as it is your money do with it what you will but here we have an industry that openly admits they rig games and get away with it.

Hell even at the local county fair, there are inspectors to make sure the games are legit.


16 posted on 08/23/2012 8:40:36 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

If the cards had worked to the Casino’s favor; could the customers sue the Casino for their money back?


17 posted on 08/23/2012 8:41:10 AM PDT by Hodar (A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.- Burroughs)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

Too bad, so sad they won.


18 posted on 08/23/2012 8:43:01 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dilbert San Diego

“.....in the court of public opinion, this is a disaster of public relations....”

Exactly. It seems to me the $1.5 million the casino “lost”
is a drop in the bucket when compared to all the bad publicity the hotel and casino will generate from their lawsuit (or lawsuits).


19 posted on 08/23/2012 8:47:13 AM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (If people don't have to show an ID to vote, why do they have to show one to purchase a firearm?.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

How do we know the casino didn’t order the cards pre-shuffled in THEIR favor? Seems that that scenario would be more grounds to sue the manufacturer.

Are those few decks the first ones used by the casino that were ordered “pre-shuffled”?

Shouldn’t someone have checked some random decks to insure the cards were, in fact, pre-shuffled?

Sounds more like the casino is yelling “sour grapes” for losing than owning up to their own lack of foresight and responsibility.

If I ever go to Vegas, I’ll be sure to avoid the Golden Nugget.


20 posted on 08/23/2012 8:47:53 AM PDT by FrankR (They will become our ultimate masters the day we surrender the 2nd Amendment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono
I'm sure the casino owners have a judge all picked out and the health of the casino manager and that dealer will probably change abruptly in the near future
21 posted on 08/23/2012 8:54:15 AM PDT by drypowder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FrankR

As with some of the Banks we are basically saying, we won’t let you fail and there are no consequences for your stuipid actions....

The Golden Nugget should have learned a valuable lesson here and took note of it... Instead they whined like a whiny little bitch of a green energy company and wanted to be bailed out in a way.

When a slot machine is broken in the casinos favor nothing is ever done to fix it, if a slot machine is broken in the gamblers favor the casino demands their money back...

The casinos want their cake and to eat it to... Risk on the behalf is not part of their business apparently... It would be nice if all businesses could run that way, but that is not feasible int he real world.

The casinoes can go pound sand for all I care.


22 posted on 08/23/2012 8:57:37 AM PDT by GraceG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: FrankR

If they were smart they’d use it for an ad to bring more people into the casino. I’d even have the winners testify in the ad that “Anything can happen at the Golden Nugget!”


23 posted on 08/23/2012 8:59:42 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: FrankR
If I ever go to Vegas, I’ll be sure to avoid the Golden Nugget.Shouldn't be too difficult. The article said the casino is in New Jersey. ;-)
24 posted on 08/23/2012 8:59:58 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

There is a one-in-10-to the-68th chance that the cards were actually pre-shuffled and ended up in order. Of course, if they weren’t originally shuffled well, the odds are significantly reduced.


25 posted on 08/23/2012 8:59:58 AM PDT by spaced
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
If they were smart they’d use it for an ad to bring more people into the casino. I’d even have the winners testify in the ad that “Anything can happen at the Golden Nugget!”

That's exactly the approach they should have taken. Gamblers would have flocked there to see if they too can get lucky like that. Instead, nobody is going to want to gamble there because they will be afraid of being sued over some technicality if they win big. They will simply take their gambling business someplace else.

The bean counters running this casino evidently don't have a PR bone in their bodies. This is a major blunder that will cost them much future business.

26 posted on 08/23/2012 9:06:46 AM PDT by SamAdams76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: animal172

Looks like they outsourced their shuffling. How stupid and lazy is that?


27 posted on 08/23/2012 9:08:24 AM PDT by Slump Tester (What if I'm pregnant Teddy? Errr-ahh -Calm down Mary Jo, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
....but here we have an industry that openly admits they rig games and get away with it.

Exactly how do they rig the games?

28 posted on 08/23/2012 9:14:02 AM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: FrankR

It’s baccarat, there is no “in their favor”, people bet on which of two hands dealt within strict rules will win, that hand either does or it doesn’t.

They don’t precheck because part of the whole point of having them factory shuffled is to avoid any possibility of funny business. Somebody who prechecks can modify, if they modify they know which hands will win, they can pass that word to somebody else, who can then bet appropriately and take the casino. The whole point of preshuffling is for them to go from a sealed pack, to the shoot, to the table, and on the table is the first time anybody in the building actually sees that card.

They’ve got a case against the factory. The players will win though. All the players did was notice a pattern that the dealer gets paid to notice first and didn’t. Not the players’ fault the casino hired a dumb dealer for a high stakes game.


29 posted on 08/23/2012 9:14:21 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: All

It appears to me that all casino games are basically rigged.

Anytime someone has a “lucky streak”, it’s so unbelievable that it has to be investigated. In this case there was an error, but the obvious conclusion is how rigged these games must be.

My friends and I occasionally go to a local casino for dinner, etc. We’ve seen people playing a bank of slot machines near the restaurant. Several hours later we come out and the same people are playing. So we ask...hit anything? The answer is always no, and we often hear about how much they’ve poured into their machine. Terrible loss of money & time.

Reminds me of the old rigged carnival games.

Gamblers beware!


30 posted on 08/23/2012 9:25:06 AM PDT by OhhTee5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: All

It appears to me that all casino games are basically rigged.

Anytime someone has a “lucky streak”, it’s so unbelievable that it has to be investigated. In this case there was an error, but the obvious conclusion is how rigged these games must be.

My friends and I occasionally go to a local casino for dinner, etc. We’ve seen people playing a bank of slot machines near the restaurant. Several hours later we come out and the same people are playing. So we ask...hit anything? The answer is always no, and we often hear about how much they’ve poured into their machine. Terrible loss of money & time.

Reminds me of the old rigged carnival games.

Gamblers beware!


31 posted on 08/23/2012 9:25:06 AM PDT by OhhTee5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: All

It appears to me that all casino games are basically rigged.

Anytime someone has a “lucky streak”, it’s so unbelievable that it has to be investigated. In this case there was an error, but the obvious conclusion is how rigged these games must be.

My friends and I occasionally go to a local casino for dinner, etc. We’ve seen people playing a bank of slot machines near the restaurant. Several hours later we come out and the same people are playing. So we ask...hit anything? The answer is always no, and we often hear about how much they’ve poured into their machine. Terrible loss of money & time.

Reminds me of the old rigged carnival games.

Gamblers beware!


32 posted on 08/23/2012 9:25:06 AM PDT by OhhTee5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: All

It appears to me that all casino games are basically rigged.

Anytime someone has a “lucky streak”, it’s so unbelievable that it has to be investigated. In this case there was an error, but the obvious conclusion is how rigged these games must be.

My friends and I occasionally go to a local casino for dinner, etc. We’ve seen people playing a bank of slot machines near the restaurant. Several hours later we come out and the same people are playing. So we ask...hit anything? The answer is always no, and we often hear about how much they’ve poured into their machine. Terrible loss of money & time.

Reminds me of the old rigged carnival games.

Gamblers beware!


33 posted on 08/23/2012 9:25:06 AM PDT by OhhTee5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Focault's Pendulum

How are they rigged you asked?

The individual game rules and payouts for the games always allow for the house to win over time and the customer to lose over time. That’s the business model. Perfectly legal but not my cup of tea for gambling knowing out of the shoot I would be at a disadvantage. If I am going to gamble hard earned money I want a level playing field.

Here is where the mob and corrupt politicians get involved. Even a game of skill like 21 is rigged against a smart player such that if they have the ability to keep track of cards, thus improving their odds, the casinos ban them from the game. Up to about 3 decks I can count but beyond that I am lost. In any event the casinos are allowed to ban a private citizen from playing simply because they have a skill.

I would prefer to play games of luck & skill like poker where I do have a real chance of winning and a payout which is not rigged.

Certainly everyone should know that the slots are deliberately rigged.


34 posted on 08/23/2012 9:29:53 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
Certainly everyone should know that the slots are deliberately rigged.

Current slot machines use a random numbers generator. I had a slot in AC pay out five times in a row. And the games are not rigged. It's mathematics...odds. Casinos choose the games where odds are in their favor.

35 posted on 08/23/2012 9:38:52 AM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Focault's Pendulum

I am very familiar with the microprocessor/micro-controller algorithms used to calculate payouts of slots and no way are they 50/50. If they were you would never see a slot machine in a casino.

I don’t care if a slot pays out 10 times in a row. They are programmed to, over time, always return a profit to the casino otherwise the casino would never devote that much square footage to them. Every square foot outside of the toilets must have a positive cash flow otherwise whatever game is there is replaced.

I program micro-controllers and PCs and I can assure you there no such thing as a REAL random number generator in any of the CPUs. There are however, PSEUDO random number generators in many micros or if not, software PSEUDO random routines are written.

The programming, while on spin to spin is based on a pseudo random number sequence, has an algorithm to give X percentage edge to the house. The house determines the value of X (within restrictions based upon local laws)

Ever see a sign for loose slots in a casino? A loose slot machine, which has a smaller house percentage algorithm, is usually place in high traffic areas to give the impression of an easy win. Away from the high traffic areas you will find slots with a higher house percentage algorithm.

I cannot fathom how anyone can say the games are not rigged unless we are just hung up on semantics.

The odds of most of the games and the payout ratio ALWAYS favor the house. THAT is basic math and are an absolute must for the casino to turn a profit.

If there is no rigging of the odds vs payouts then the house would have no better than 50/50 odds/payout and would have to rely on food, drinks for all their profits as the games would simply be a wash.


36 posted on 08/23/2012 10:16:52 AM PDT by Wurlitzer (Nothing says "ignorance" like Islam!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: OhhTee5
I was at the Showboat in Atlantic City last Fall, and I noticed that when I walked through the area where the slot machines were there was an unusual musical chord playing constantly over the sound system. It was an oddly diminished chord, as in the last chord of that little cliche riff which goes Dat da daaaaa .... when something is about to happen. Then I realized that's exactly where it was from, and it was intended to create an almost trance-like feeling of expectation. I suppose, you would sit there while it kept you on edge expecting a jackpot at any moment. Later that weekend we went to most of the other casinos on the Boardwalk, and they all had exactly the same chord playing in the background.
37 posted on 08/23/2012 10:19:05 AM PDT by PUGACHEV
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Wurlitzer
I cannot fathom how anyone can say the games are not rigged unless we are just hung up on semantics.

Semantics.

38 posted on 08/23/2012 10:27:03 AM PDT by Focault's Pendulum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono
If I wind up on the jury the casino wouldn't get a nickel from the gamblers.They did nothing wrong.....they did nothing dishonest.Zip,zilch,nada!
39 posted on 08/23/2012 4:29:18 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The Word Is Out,Harry Reid's Into Child Porn.Release All Your Photos,Harry!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono
The Golden Nugget casino in Atlantic City is suing the 14 gamblers, who together totaled 41 winning bets in a row when the cards at the table began coming out in sequence, the New York Post reported Wednesday.

First of all, as others here have pointed out, the gamblers did nothing wrong. Also, you would think that after, oh, I don't know.....maybe 16 or 17 winning bets in a row, the casino would figure out that something unusual was happening.

40 posted on 08/23/2012 4:36:23 PM PDT by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

‘Ef” ‘Em.


41 posted on 08/23/2012 6:54:06 PM PDT by EggsAckley (m)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Focault's Pendulum

42 posted on 08/23/2012 7:59:40 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: EggsAckley

43 posted on 08/23/2012 8:06:35 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

44 posted on 08/23/2012 8:09:35 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

I love that Perry Mason feels the need for a Sherlock Holmes hat & pipe. Bizarro world had to be a blast to write.


45 posted on 08/23/2012 8:17:21 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa (Vote for Goode, end up with evil, pat self on back repeatedly)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono

Wasn’t the guy who f*@ked up in Casino based on a relative of Harry Reid? I draw that conclusion because the Smother’s Brother PLAYED Harry Reid in that film.


46 posted on 08/24/2012 12:05:54 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Only Obama put a dog on the roof of his mouth. Dogs are friends, not food.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: JoeProBono
I think I got kicked out of that tonight.
47 posted on 08/24/2012 12:13:57 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Only Obama put a dog on the roof of his mouth. Dogs are friends, not food.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: PUGACHEV

My first weekend in Vegas, I was totally disoriented by the bells, clanging coins, etc.

Ever afterward, I knew how to navigate through the non-linear casinos and everything else was so much chatter/clatter.


48 posted on 08/24/2012 12:17:17 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (Only Obama put a dog on the roof of his mouth. Dogs are friends, not food.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson