Skip to comments.Reinstating draft would end needless conflicts
Posted on 09/15/2012 1:11:26 PM PDT by vet7279
Whatever one thinks of the morality of the draft, I believe that the war will continue to drag on as long as upscale Americans see it as an abstract issue that has little relevance to their day-to-day lives. Unless their toilet overflows, these denizens of the Nike and Chablis milieu of our society seldom have any meaningful contact with, or concern for, the strata that furnishes the bodies to be killed or mutilated in our military crusades.
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Ain’t gonna happen!
I’m not going to debate whether this is wrong or right but I have a lot of doubt that the draft will ever be reinstated again. It would destroy any politician who voted for it. Even Charlie Rangel who has brought it to a vote multiple times has voted against it himself.
heck make everyone serve three years starting when they get out of high school no exceptions ...then all the politicians will have had to defend this country
Instead of a draft how about a law that requires all soldiers over seas be armed and required to return fire and any politician who orders otherwise be imprisoned for life.
The liberals are worried the normal male voluteers are not going into the anti Christian sodomy voluntarily?
Draft their butts, baby!
I would say our volunteer forces over the last 30 years are as fine an Army as ever took the field of battle. You don’t mess with that.
I see no reason to believe that the draft prevents wars.
The draft should have never stopped. I doubt it will ever come back, too many would flee to avoid it.
And would you draft women?
I served when the draft was in place, and it was a DISASTER for the military. And the people that want to reinstate it almost universally want to destroy the magnificent military we have now. Forcing a bunch of goof-off, malcontents into the military insures a weak, and left leaning military - exactly what the scum-bag liberal function wants!
Before we even entertain debating this issue on the merits - We should note that the writer asserts opinion, not fact, and his fundamental premise is wrong. The children of the poor and disadvantaged DO NOT make up a disproportionate share of the all-volunteer force.
The draft is slavery ~ pure and simple.
The volunteer force is far better than the draft military, which I served in. Given the amount of training necessary to master the new technology, we can’t afford a revolving door military. And the numbers just don’t work. Most people would never be drafted given the manpower requirements versus the numbers available.
First, the draft is involuntary servitude.
Second, the military doesn’t want it. Professional warriors have always had contempt for conscripts.
Third, the constitution of a military should not be such that it is useless, as those proposing a draft would like to make it.
Unless there is a nuclear war a draft is not going to be acceptable to the American people. IT has to get to that level seriousness first before our youth are even willing to undergo the hardships of compulsory service.
We simply have spent far too long without any sight of warfare on home soil to be able to handle the reality of combat.
How does reinstating the draft end endless conflicts?
All that would do is have a bunch of solders who where conscripted to fight in endless conflicts.
I know it’s quaint of me,
But the 13th Amendment is short, and crystal clear.
“Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Libtards never seem to get tired of confusing the difference between initiation of force and voluntary actions and volitional choices.
That is right, the draft yields a weak, left leaning, impotent military. Just like the Israeli Military. Oops, maybe not.
I served during the draft, and from where I sat, it worked just fine.
I say bring it back and every family will have some “skin in the game”, and will think long and hard about having American blood shed for gang wars in 3rd world countries.
Like it stopped our involvement in WW1, Korea and Vietnam?
The draft wasn’t even popular back when people thought everyone loved it.
So...force our kids to server under obama? FO...
No, it wasn’t popular, but then again we weren’t running around being the world’s police force either.
Back during the draft it actually took an act of congress to get involved in a war, not just done on a whim as today. (Does Libya, Bosnia, and soon to be Syria sound familiar?)
“Imagine if BO’s daughter was being deployed”
Please,, Al Gore finally had to go during the draft days, and SENATOR Gore sr. made sure his tour was short and safe.They will take care of their own, even if they are “drafted” (wink wink,,nudge nudge)
And theres still the problem that it is the ultimate in involuntary servitude. Specifically and clearly prohibited by the 13th Amendment. NO exceptions were placed in there for military service.
We should reissue draft numbers. The numbers would be issued in accordance with the income of the person and/or their parents, women included.
Like Obama’s tax policies, the highest incomes would go to the top of the list. This would also include those $100,000+ college professors.
Also, those who can work but won’t, like the Occupy drones, would go to the top, as would all the college students campaigning for Obama. They should all be happy to carry their benefactor’s flag into battle.
Why not debate its rightness or wrongness. I’ll go first. Not only is the draft wrong, it is illegal. Not only is there no delegated draft power, but it is not necessary for any other power and violates the ban on involuntary servitude.
There was never a draft in peace time, right?
There really isn’t a draft now, although I realize men still have to register.
At the rate things are going I wouldn’t stop that right now.
I also agree with the other person who said you can’t draft everybody, it’s just too many people.
And forget that Ameri-corps idea. We need to be downsizing gov’t, not expanding it in any way.
Clearly our current problems with Muslims/Sharia are not going to be solved on the battlefield. Our future problems with them.....well, the idea is to avoid future problems, but right now I’m not feeling too optimistic.
Go ahead and debate it. I’m not going to.
I served honorably.When I turned 18 there was no requirement to register for selective service. That changed a few years later (back dated!).
Why are females not required to register? Why has the military removed enlisted man clubs (allowed to drink at 18..and drinking age during my youth) from the military installations? Why does the military bow to muslim rules about alcohol in muslim countries?
I wave with my left hand.
interesting numbers you have there...we need to do something to turn the youth around the military is a good start what would you suggest?
Here’s a couple of alternatives. Pay soldiers in combat units the wage it takes to attract all you need. A PFC machine gunner should make over 100k a year.
Crazy? National need comes first? Then in wartime why don’t we pay the CEO and Board of Lockheed a colonels pay, or cancel their DOD contracts? And everyone on the production lines gets say, E-4 or E-5 pay. Do it for the duration.
How about congress and the president are immediately reduced in pay to the level of a PFC for the duration?
Funny, the only ones exected to practically donate their labor, and often their lives are the grunts. No draft. When theres a shortage of grunts, it’s funny how free marketeers, and socialists alike start waving the flag. It never crosses their mind that “you have to pay those wages to attract the talent you want”.
A draft is nothing more than use of gunpoint and force, to circumvent the wage the free market would set.
Bingo, and I have personal experience in my early military career at a time when draftees were still a presence in the ranks as the Army was transitioning to an all volunteer force. The difference in force quality and effectiveness over those 30 years in comparison to my first few years in uniform is like night and day.
I sorta see the authors point, but it’s like extinguishing a fire by instead of dousing it with water throwing fire on it and letting it burn out on its own. Which is stupid. But some people can’t get over the tact that the modern mass army is attractive to the poor, and they want the richer to suffer for it.
There is something to this, in that in the old days war was for princes to run and the nobility and mercenaries to fight. Unsurprisingly they were of relatively limited scope, shorter duration, and les cost. But that was before democracy, industrialism, mass ideology, propaganda, etc. You can’t go hack by throwing richies in the mix. That world is gone.
More to the point is money. We can’t fight endless wars if we’re bankrupt, or not as many and not forever. And don’t worry, we are bankrupt; most of us just don’t know it yet.
Too bad you forgot Article 1, that says the Congress shall have the power: “to raise and support armies, . . . to provide and maintain a navy;”
Lest you draft opponents get carried away, we won World War II with draftees.
Recent Defense Secretary Gates commented that “for a growing number of Americans, (especially for the celebrated and powerful), service in the military, no matter how laudable, has become something for other people to do.”
With Democrats, hatred for and avoidance of the military is the norm. But too many conservatives, and Freepers, don’t care much for military service themselves.
“then all the politicians will have to defend thus country”
I’m not sure what proportion of the armed forces now can honestly be said to directly defend the country, but certainly that ratio would suffer by bloating the services to such a ridiculous size. Mostly future politicians would get practice being bureaucrats.
Enslaving youths is not a good way to turn them around. First of it’s just wrong. Second of all you may stop them from being fat and playing video games and chasing tail for discreet periods of time, but you won’t turn them into Johnny Dogoods. Likelier you’d corrupt the military.
We have enough issues with first term enlistees coming out of our present society. The last thing we need is a bunch of draftees that don’t want to be there. Add to that the current size of the military and the draft would be so small it wouldn’t do any of the things the proponents want it to do.
There are always people who think it’s just fine to make us all property of the state. Like Obama said, government is the one thing we all belong to!
My son spent 5 honorable years in the Marine Corps (E5) including a tour to Iraq. Like most Marines, he was a combat soldier. The last thing I would have wanted was for him to have some saggy pants africanhyphenamerican draftee from Detroit having his back. I don’t want any of our warriors, USMC or otherwise, to be in that position. We took a hell of a beating from the homegrown communist trash because of the draft during the Vietnam War (not conflict) and their crap gave aid and comfort to the enema. Never again.
“we weren’t running around being the world’s police force”
Yes we were. I think Korea might have literally been referred to as a “police action.” Containment had more in common with policing the world. Japan attacked us largely because we slapped them for invading China and acting like we were the gatekeepers of the Pacific (ask yourself what out navy was found on Hawaii, anyway) . The Germans posed no direct threat to us, aside from to transatlantic shipping which was fine until it wasn’t, even though they declared war. We fought them twice more because they were supposedly guilty for starting it and were fighting it criminally.
You may be partially right about the congressional act part; I’d have to check Korea. But we haven’t declared war since WWII. Open-ended vague commitments held for Vietnam as much as for Iraq/Afghanistan.
I was a draftee. Viewed it as my duty to serve and did so to the best of my ability. By the time I got to be truly effective it was time to go home -— and that’s just as true of the “shooting action” part of it as well as my normal MOS.
Years later as I read more and more about the war I was in I came to understand how ineptitude and duplicity got us into it in the first place and in the end what a nearly total waste it was. Thank God I wasn’t wounded or killed, as the “sacrifice” would truly have been in vain.
That said, it I believe it was for me and most everyone I know in the same situation a growing, maturing, character building experience -— and one that taught me to NEVER again trust any government including ours.
So, while the idea of everyone owing their country military service arguably has certain attractions, I doubt the American public will be any less manipulable by virtue of bringing back the draft, and it would certainly lower the overall effectiveness of our military.
What’s peacetime? It’s not peacetime now. Probably hasn’t been since 1941.
Interesting that the Germans couldn’t make it 20 miles across the English Channel but supposedly posed a threat to us ...
I suppose one could argue there some sort of obligation to keep supporting the S. Vietnamese after Kennedy destroyed their government by letting Diem get whacked. Whether it needed to go so far as half a million US troops and 58,000 dead is another matter, IMHO.
well whats your solution
That is rank sophistry. The draft is not necessary to raise and support an army or provide and maintain a navy. We have those now without a draft, duh. Raising an army via draft is also not proper, since it violates the 13th amendment.
“We won WWII with draftees”
Oh, really? I guess they can do anything, then./s
“service in the military...has become something for other people to do”
So it was also for almost all Americans for the majority of US history. So it should be in a free republic that isn’t the world’s police fighting perpetual wars for perpetual peace.
I sometimes wonder if the political system envisioned by Robert Heinlein in Starship Troopers wouldn’t be better than what we have now. Only those who served in the military were considered Citizens with full voting rights. Everyone else was a civilian. If you weren’t willing to risk your life for your country you didn’t get a say in setting government policy.