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Windows 8 Oct. 26 Release Approaches: This Could Be ‘Exactly What Microsoft Needs,’
International Business Times ^ | 09/16/2012 | LISA EADICICCO

Posted on 09/16/2012 8:01:27 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Microsoft's Oct. 26 release date for Windows 8 is quickly approaching, and fans of the long-time PC software creator have seen some new devices that will utilize the OS. At Berlin's IFA 2012, hybrid style laptop-tablet gadgets were unveiled such as the Sony VAIO Duo and the T-Series 13 Ultrabook.

These crossbreed style gadgets may represent exactly what Microsoft needs to make Windows 8 work in the competitive mobile market: something completely new and different, unable to be defined with just one label.

This correlates with exactly what the Windows 8 operating system does, as the new software contains interfaces catered to both tablet and PC devices. But traditional Windows users may need to adapt to Microsoft's new direction if they plan to upgrade to Windows 8. According to Greg Kostello, who has been developing the video sharing app Givit for the Windows 8 platform, Microsoft found a way to make this transition smooth for users.

"Change is hard for a lot of people," Kostello said in an interview. "The Windows interface has stayed largely consistent. You can go from your traditional Windows environment to Windows 8 and go back and forth; I think that's going to solve the migration path for them. They can easily stay in their Windows world if they wish to."

Kostello is the founder, President and CEO of VMIX, a provider of online video publishing and communication solutions. Previously, he was President of Vivendi-Universal Net Technologies where he integrated MP3.com audio technologies into the commercial music industry, and has worked on a team that developed an engine that has become the foundation for Mozilla-based software.

As a developer, Kostello has had experience creating apps for both iOS and Android platforms, and said that Windows 8 relies heavily on its touch screen experience just like these mobile operating systems.

"It is much more like an iPad experience," he said. "But it is an interesting combination now having played with Windows 8 for [several] months. I find myself using both the keyboard and mouse interface and the touch interface when I have a device that supports both. The mouse gives you a lot of precision that you're fingertip does not."

The VMIX president added that Microsoft succeeded in delivering this dual-functionality with Windows 8, emphasizing the importance of being able to switch between interfaces.

"I think what Microsoft tried to do was to blend the best of both worlds, giving you the ability to use your mouse if you like but to migrate to a touch interface if you like. And I think they've done a fine job of blending those two together."

Although Windows 8 may be a new stepping stone for the company, Microsoft does have a tough act to follow. Windows 7 and Windows XP are the most popular operating systems running on PCs as of August 2012, according to w3school.com, a web development site where users learn how to create and code content for the Internet. In October 2011 Windows 7 overtook XP, claiming 40.5 percent of the global web market share, reports website analytics company StatCounter.

But Microsoft's Windows 8 will add a revamped user interface to the OS that users have grown familiar with in these previous iterations. Formerly branded as "Metro," the new layout will tile applications on the Home screen and will cater to the use of touch screen interaction. This is clearly an attempt by the Redmond, Wash.-based company to claim a more aggressive presence in the mobile industry, where Apple and Google reign supreme with their respective iOS and Android platforms.

However, users aren't the only ones that will have to adjust to Microsoft's shift in perspective. According to Kostello, developing for Windows 8 requires a drastic overhaul in creating an application.

"We actually re-did the UI from the ground up," said Kostello when discussing the development of Givit for Windows 8. "I think one of the challenges for people who are coming into the Windows 8 world is that when you're doing your design [for Windows 8], you probably want to throw away all your preconceptions about how you want to develop for it."

Kostello continued to say that the development team for Givit initially had trouble deciding if they should brand the app as a web-based entity or mobile experience.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet; Society
KEYWORDS: microsoft; windows8

THE WINDOWS 8 METRO USER INTERFACE


1 posted on 09/16/2012 8:01:35 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Installed the Release Preview as a dual boot last Saturday. For the last couple days I’ve had major problems with it not shutting down or restarting. Not much online help with the issue, although it appears I’m not alone in having the problem. I’m leaving it installed but not doing anything further with it. I’m tired of pulling the plug and battery just to get my laptop shut down.


2 posted on 09/16/2012 8:10:18 AM PDT by bcsco (Bourbon gets better with age...I age better with Bourbon.)
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To: bcsco

Yawn. Death before DOS.


3 posted on 09/16/2012 8:13:32 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: bcsco

Thanx for the info. I will be AVOIDING Windows 8.


4 posted on 09/16/2012 8:16:49 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (Beware the Rip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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To: SeekAndFind

Or not.


5 posted on 09/16/2012 8:17:27 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: SeekAndFind

If Microsoft persists with making Metro UI the primary interface for PCs and also refuses to add back the Start Menu to the REAL desktop, then I predict an epic failure for Microsoft. It will be so bad it’s going to make Vista look like a work of genius.

Be prepared to short MS stock and those dependent upon PCs for a large percentage of their profits.


6 posted on 09/16/2012 8:20:15 AM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: PJ-Comix

It runs fine. Boots quickly, doesn’t use a lot of resources. Programs boot fast. It’s just the shut down issue. I started having it a couple days ago. There are a few minor issues when running it but nothing really important. The only stupid flaw is the integrated email application only allowing Windows Live, Gmail or Outlook imported email accounts. You can’t set up a pop3 email account such as my Comcast accounts. Oh, and it doesn’t include the normal suite of Windows games (Freecell, Solitaire, Minesweeper, Hearts, etc). But there’s a work around by copying the folders from your Windows7 (or earlier) installation, and adding a dll file to each folder from your Win7 System 32 folder. Some work, but the programs then run.

When the final release comes out in October I just might spend the $40 for the upgrade. But things have to be fixed before I do...


7 posted on 09/16/2012 8:26:32 AM PDT by bcsco (Bourbon gets better with age...I age better with Bourbon.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Change is hard for a lot of people," Kostello said in an interview. "The Windows interface has stayed largely consistent.

Let's not talk about that awful Office 2010 ribbon, shall we?

8 posted on 09/16/2012 8:27:21 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: catnipman

People always make such silly predictions. The “I’m used to X, and this isnt X, so it’s scary, therefore it’s bad” attitude.

Those people can always keep Windows 7.

I see Win8 really catching on as most people will just learn it, and adopt their routine to it.

Look at how some people reacted so negatively to the iPad. Now they swear by it.


9 posted on 09/16/2012 8:27:31 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: catnipman

To put your post succinctly - In recent news “Microsoft Jumps the Shark” with Metro UI ;-)


10 posted on 09/16/2012 8:31:13 AM PDT by fremont_steve
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To: catnipman

The Metro interface is not a big deal. It’s purpose is to place the programs accessible through the Start Menu right there on your screen instead of having to go to them. In fact, when installing a program, the icons are placed on the Metro interface, not on the desktop. If you want to add them to the desktop, you have to add a separate icon manually. The Metro interface can be disabled as well.

As for no start menu on the desktop, the only use that would provide is for shutting down or changing users, all of which is accomplished through one further step through their “charms” option that expands from the right edge of the screen. I don’t see this as a big deal. Not being able to shut down (as I noted in my first post) IS a big deal.


11 posted on 09/16/2012 8:32:40 AM PDT by bcsco (Bourbon gets better with age...I age better with Bourbon.)
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To: VanDeKoik

I am looking forward to touch screen desktops. (as in my desk’s actual top)

non touchscreen monitors will be going away.


12 posted on 09/16/2012 8:34:57 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: SeekAndFind

Windows 8 is gross.. I’ve tried it and find it horrible. I’ll keep win 7 going as long as possible and switch to Macs - love my air book.


13 posted on 09/16/2012 8:51:25 AM PDT by tje
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To: longtermmemmory
I am looking forward to touch screen desktops. (as in my desk’s actual top)

non touchscreen monitors will be going away.


My parents bought a touchscreen desktop from I think HP. They, and my siblings, never use it. It is 99% mouse/keyboard. The only time it really gets touched is if I'm helping my mom around the new Word menus. (WTF why move everything around? Like @%$#%! Barco's projector menus, or Apple refusing to use VGA, the most widely used video input, so you always need an adapter.) And of course, I accidentally touch it and that messes up her mouse and where it was. NO help. Phones/tablets are really the only good places a touch-screen optimized interface is going to work well.

Actual desktop touchscreens, where the surface of the desk is the screen, might be interesting in certain applications, but how do you determine R/L clicks? Double taps? And what about scrolling? Good luck, just ask Samsung! Haha. And I can't see many gamers going with this, keyboard/mouse is how every game works. It'll need some brand new games designed for it, which is gonna be hard for many gamers to adapt.
14 posted on 09/16/2012 9:28:02 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: VanDeKoik
Those people can always keep Windows 7.

Sure they can, for a short time. I seem to remember Microsoft essentially killing off support for XP when Vista came out, even though XP was much better. When I bought my laptop years ago, I would have had to pay an extra ~$200 to install XP instead of Vista. On a $600 machine.

How long will Microsoft take before Win7 support starts dwindling as they try to encourage people to move to 8? When there's a premium for new computers having Win7?

Win8 will catch on for some people, and it looks great for tablet/phone interfaces. But as a lap/desktop OS? Not so much. Some change is good, I'll agree. But like Office 2010, when they changed every menu around, renamed half of them, that just makes it that much more difficult for people to use the product. This'll end up like Facebook. Devs come out with random changes that don't really improve anything, and half the user base will complain and be ignored. Then they'll go on and use it, cause there is no other option for them.
15 posted on 09/16/2012 9:41:02 AM PDT by Svartalfiar
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To: SeekAndFind

How freaking, freaking ugly. Ugh!


16 posted on 09/16/2012 12:15:30 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: bcsco

The Metro interface is not a big deal. It’s purpose is to place the programs accessible through the Start Menu right there on your screen instead of having to go to them. In fact, when installing a program, the icons are placed on the Metro interface, not on the desktop. If you want to add them to the desktop, you have to add a separate icon manually. The Metro interface can be disabled as well.

As for no start menu on the desktop, the only use that would provide is for shutting down or changing users, all of which is accomplished through one further step through their “charms” option that expands from the right edge of the screen. I don’t see this as a big deal. Not being able to shut down (as I noted in my first post) IS a big deal.”

Obviously you’re not a professional, power PC user. I am. I program for a living. I open dozens of programs dozens of times each during development. No way, no shape, no form does Metro UI allow that quickly. That’s what quickstart, desktop shortcuts, and the Start Menu are for.

I, and thousands of other power users tried W8 and we have all given it thumbs down. I was unable to work until I hacked the registry to disable Metro UI and installed Classic Shell to restore the Start Menu.

And don’t tell me I can’t adapt. I’ve worked with computers for 42 years, the last 17 years with PCs. I worked in a corporate environment as the chief network engineer for a corporation with over a 1000 employees. There’s simply no way that Windows 8 as it’s currently configured will be adopted on PCs by anybody except people who have no other choice but to buy their next PC from bestbuy. And even then, i’m guessing most will be taking them back.


17 posted on 09/16/2012 2:45:40 PM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: VanDeKoik

“I see Win8 really catching on as most people will just learn it, and adopt their routine to it.”

Obviously you’re not a professional, power PC user. I am. I program for a living. I open dozens of programs dozens of times each during development. No way, no shape, no form does Metro UI allow that quickly. That’s what quickstart, desktop shortcuts, and the Start Menu are for.

I, and thousands of other power users tried W8 and we have all given it thumbs down. I was unable to work until I hacked the registry to disable Metro UI and installed Classic Shell to restore the Start Menu.

And don’t tell me I can’t adapt. I’ve worked with computers for 42 years, the last 17 years with PCs. I worked in a corporate environment as the chief network engineer for a corporation with over a 1000 employees. There’s simply no way that Windows 8 as it’s currently configured will be adopted on PCs by anybody except people who have no other choice but to buy their next PC from bestbuy. And even then, i’m guessing most will be taking them back.

Governments and corporations are simply not going to retrain millions of their employees to use an interface designed to work well only on touch screen devices that have screens the size of a credit card.


18 posted on 09/16/2012 2:49:22 PM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: VanDeKoik

“I see Win8 really catching on as most people will just learn it, and adopt their routine to it.”

Obviously you’re not a professional, power PC user. I am. I program for a living. I open dozens of programs dozens of times each during development. No way, no shape, no form does Metro UI allow that quickly. That’s what quickstart, desktop shortcuts, and the Start Menu are for.

I, and thousands of other power users tried W8 and we have all given it thumbs down. I was unable to work until I hacked the registry to disable Metro UI and installed Classic Shell to restore the Start Menu.

And don’t tell me I can’t adapt. I’ve worked with computers for 42 years, the last 17 years with PCs. I worked in a corporate environment as the chief network engineer for a corporation with over a 1000 employees. There’s simply no way that Windows 8 as it’s currently configured will be adopted on PCs by anybody except people who have no other choice but to buy their next PC from bestbuy. And even then, i’m guessing most will be taking them back.

Governments and corporations are simply not going to retrain millions of their employees to use an interface designed to work well only on touch screen devices that have screens the size of a credit card.


19 posted on 09/16/2012 2:49:30 PM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: catnipman
If Microsoft persists with making Metro UI the primary interface for PCs and also refuses to add back the Start Menu to the REAL desktop, then I predict an epic failure for Microsoft. It will be so bad it’s going to make Vista look like a work of genius.

Until I actually installed and used Windows 8 (Release Candidate) I said the exact same thing.

Once I had it installed and running, I really hated the Metro Interface still do in fact. Then I pressed the Windows key and UP popped the Windows 8 Desktop. Same look & feel as Windows 7, minus the Start Menu.

Yep, I agree - not having the Start Button and Start menu annoyed the crap out of me. Then I installed StarDock which at least put something that resembled a Start button and menu back in place.

So I worked with Windows 8 a few hours and found myself quickly learning the CTRL-Key combinations to do all the things that the Start menu used to do for me. Lo and behold, I picked most of those combinations up in about 3-4 hours and now have them committed to memory. (I'm 50 years old BTW.)

While I cannot stand the Metro interface and it really annoys the daylights out of me that Microsoft mixed and matched two user interface paradigms, the SPEED INCREASE and REDUCED MEMORY FOOTPRINT of Windows 8 gave my 7 year old Quad-Core, 4GB memory Shuttle small-form-factor PC new life.

For example: Under Windows 7, simply having the OS up and running with my AntiVirus program and a few windows gadgets consumed right about 1.4GB of memory. I configured Windows 8 RC on the same PC (separate drive to boot from) installing the same services, same anti-virus program, etc.. Guess what? It consumes right about 965mb of memory - almost 500MB (.5GB) than the exact same configuration under Windows 7.

Running programs under Windows 8 is a heck of alot faster too.

Starting Word for Windows 10 took 7-9 seconds to see the Microsoft Office Logo come up, then a few second more for Microsoft Word to actually be running.

Same PC with Windows 8, Microsoft Office 10 was up and running in 3.5 seconds.

Launching FireFox in Windows 7 took a good 8-10 seconds. On Windows 8 it's less than 5.

I'm not happy with that "Metro" pastel-colored piece of crap UI that it boots up with either. So I hit the Windows Key and I have the Windows 8 desktop. I learned the CTRL-Key commands to do what the Start menu used to do.

And it just works. All my Windows 7/XP software work just fine, drivers loaded for all my devices fine, and I was even able to load the Windows 7 Chipset Drivers under Windows 8 RC for my Shuttle SFF PC, a SG31G2 pc.

The keyboard CTRL-Key commands and desktop UI to me seemed to have similarities with a Fedora/Unity type of interface so I think Linux users may find some similarities (specially the Ctrl-Key functions) that feel familiar.

Microsoft gets a D from me for mixing user interface paradigms, that was just a flat-out stupid decision. It does however get an A for overall performance of the OS compared to Windows 7. Frankly, this is how Windows 7 should've performed.

Now, I have a Mac and a Windows 8 PC and while I still like the Mac better, the performance of Windows 8 for basic productivity apps is much better than that of Windows 7, Vista or XP. The same PC that now runs Windows 8 ran Windows XP when I bought and built it, upgraded to Windows 7, and now has Windows 8 on it. Windows 8 makes this 7 year old PC scream.

20 posted on 09/16/2012 3:06:02 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: catnipman
"Obviously you’re not a professional, power PC user. I am. I program for a living. I open dozens of programs dozens of times each during development. No way, no shape, no form does Metro UI allow that quickly. That’s what quickstart, desktop shortcuts, and the Start Menu are for."

Dozens? Really?

Press the Windows key and start typing the name of the program and it shows up instantly.

As far as desktop shortcuts and quickstart? Didn't you notice they are all STILL there?

The reality is that you need not even use Metro Start for much of anything if you dont want to. You can unpin everything other than the Desktop tile.

"I, and thousands of other power users tried W8 and we have all given it thumbs down. I was unable to work until I hacked the registry to disable Metro UI and installed Classic Shell to restore the Start Menu."

So now you clicked Start, and moved a mouse around through sub folders? THAT is what a "power user" does?

That's not being a power user. Those people can work effortlessly in new environments and quickly pick up on new methods. What you are describing is the equivalent of the office hen that writes her supervisor because they upgraded the web browser and she cant figure out how to get to her "email webpage" and thus needs it changed back.

If "thousands" of those types cant use their power skills to wing it, well then there are plenty of others coming up that will and they will have your job eventually who will take to it.

"And don’t tell me I can’t adapt. I’ve worked with computers for 42 years, the last 17 years with PCs. I worked in a corporate environment as the chief network engineer for a corporation with over a 1000 employees. There’s simply no way that Windows 8 as it’s currently configured will be adopted on PCs by anybody except people who have no other choice but to buy their next PC from bestbuy. And even then, i’m guessing most will be taking them back."

And I bet I could have heard the same rant from you when you went from command lines to a desktop GUI as I hear now. In this case that 20th century paradigm that older programmers are rooted in is coming to a close. The age of the pretend desktop is over.

Governments and corporations are simply not going to retrain millions of their employees to use an interface designed to work well only on touch screen devices that have screens the size of a credit card.

They trained people to use a mouse. They trained them to use the internet. They trained them to use tablets and smartphones, and they will do so here as well because technology is always progressing.

My advice? Drop the curmudgeon act and start practicing because the kids coming up are going to be skilled in using this stuff and will be the ones setting the pace in your workplace very soon.

And besides, if it is just that terrible, then just keep using Windows 7. No one is forcing you to upgrade, just dont expect everyone else to stay there with you.
21 posted on 09/16/2012 3:20:22 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: SeekAndFind

Doubtful it’s what I’m looking for.


22 posted on 09/16/2012 5:36:17 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: usconservative

Here’s the problem with ctrl-key combinations: you have to use the keyboard. Any time I have to take my hand off the mouse and transfer it to the keyboard (except when I have to actually type a text string) and then transfer it back to the mouse, I’ve been defeated. I’ve been WAY slowed down on the work I do. I want to just click, click, click and NEVER EVER touch the keyboard for anything other than typing.

I’m a true power user and if you talk to any other true power user, they’ll probably tell you the same thing.


23 posted on 09/16/2012 6:24:26 PM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: VanDeKoik

LOL!

I noticed that you didn’t deny my assertion that obviously you’re not a power PC user. Instead, you just ranted and raved.


24 posted on 09/16/2012 6:32:42 PM PDT by catnipman ((Cat Nipman: Vote Republican in 2012 and only be called racist one more time!))
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To: catnipman
I’m a true power user and if you talk to any other true power user, they’ll probably tell you the same thing.

You say you write code, and having to touch the keyboard slows you down. Really? Hmmm, I write code too, and my hands are typically on the keyboard so the CTRL-Key functions work very well for me. Every "power user" I've ever met in my career has been keyboard centric and typically abhor's using a mouse to switch windows, much less requiring it's use to 'write code.'

BTW: What kind of coder simply clicks the mouse to write code without hardly ever having to touch the keyboard? I may need to switch.

25 posted on 09/16/2012 6:37:12 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: catnipman
I’m a true power user

Right. I think that's the fourth time you've made that statement on this thread. Not sure what your definition of a "true power user" is, but most "true power users" I know don't have to brag, they have confidence in their skills and are highly adaptable to learning and exploiting new environments in their craft.

If you're anything in I.T. you know it's a "change or die" environment. Some change, some die. Some assert four times on a thread that they're "true power users" as if that makes them better than everyone else while they whine about not being able to adapt to a new environment.

Change or die. Either way, move on.

26 posted on 09/16/2012 6:41:43 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: SeekAndFind

I’m running full Enterprise version Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 Datacenter version on several dozen machines now, and I love it!

Practical and modern, fast, reliable (haven’t had a crash yet - since install on Aug 16 and Sep 4, respectively).

The Start Page (formerly known as Metro) can be modified and any program, application, administrative tool, control panel and associated item, etc can be put there for instant access.

My monitors are all HP 22” Touch screens, beautiful but I have one big, big problem: The Bezel is too deep and my finger too large to activate the pixels that do the swipe commands, so I have to use the mouse. If you’re going to go to touch screens, make sure they have no bezel, just a smooth surface like a tablet.

Windows 8 can do Hyper-V!!! I actually have virtual machines running on it that are themselves running Windows 8, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows 7, Windows XP, Windows Server 2012, and Red Hat Linux Fedora 17. I have 16GB of RAM and a six-core processor on my main machine—wish I could add more RAM but I am maxxed out. This OS and Machine is a Geek’s dream machine. Ultimate developer and tester of all things.


27 posted on 09/16/2012 6:48:26 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: catnipman

You obviously have a problem with comprehension. I never said you couldn’t adapt. My comments were from my experience over the past week with the Metro interface and the absence of the Start button.

But you have too thin a skin to discuss this further. Coupled with a high opinion of yourself, it makes further discussion unwanted. Goodbye.


28 posted on 09/17/2012 5:52:10 AM PDT by bcsco (Bourbon gets better with age...I age better with Bourbon.)
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To: usconservative

I have to agree with your assessment of Win8. It runs better and uses fewer resources. My only real issue has been the shutdown problem I noted in my first post. BTW, the Metro interface can be turned off. I haven’t, but I saw posts through Google on how to do it.


29 posted on 09/17/2012 5:57:00 AM PDT by bcsco (Bourbon gets better with age...I age better with Bourbon.)
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To: catnipman

“Obviously you’re not a professional, power PC user. I am. I program for a living. I open dozens of programs dozens of times each during development. No way, no shape, no form does Metro UI allow that quickly.”

This was your assertion. I told you all the ways to quickly open these “dozens” of programs you supposedly use in one day. 2/3 of that are already existing methods while the third, pressing the windows key and typing the name of the program, works the same way as it does with the current Start menu.

And yes I do use a number of programs myself, SDKs as well as graphics programs on windows 8 without a meltdown.

Then again, I’m able to embrace new tech far easily than some.


30 posted on 09/17/2012 7:33:12 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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