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The man that is helping to produce strong conservatives. On radio for 52 years!
fhu ^ | 09/16/12 | fabian

Posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by fabian

Now celebrating 52 years of helping people on the radio! For over half a century Roy Masters has been helping people overcome their most difficult problems. As the nation’s first and longest running radio counselor, Roy Masters has advised callers with a unique ability to hear inner problems, heal fears and sexual stresses, and help people take charge of their own lives. Great show and exactly what the world needs! Here is a radio show stations page... http://www.fhu.com/radiostations.html


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous; Religion
KEYWORDS: conservative; cults; deception; roymasters; selfhelp; stress; talkradio
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tune in, you will love it!
1 posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:51 AM PDT by fabian
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To: fabian; lily; tedw; abigail2; Bob J

I love this show...very, very unique and a Godsend.


2 posted on 09/16/2012 11:54:26 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

bump!


3 posted on 09/16/2012 12:15:23 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: OneVike; JesusBmyGod; buffyt; rom; persistence48; Hanna548; DvdMom; leftyontheright; FrdmLvr

Great show here....take a listen if you haven’t already.


4 posted on 09/16/2012 12:48:47 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: whatisthetruth; the jogger

ping to a Roy Masters thread.


5 posted on 09/16/2012 12:55:36 PM PDT by dynachrome ("Our forefathers didn't bury their guns. They buried those that tried to take them.")
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To: fabian

* * * ( crickets ) * * *


6 posted on 09/16/2012 2:49:08 PM PDT by Misterioso (Trying to explain music is like trying to dance architecture. -- Thelonious Monk)
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To: dynachrome

Thank you!


7 posted on 09/16/2012 3:11:18 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Misterioso

Thank you!


8 posted on 09/16/2012 3:12:06 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

I used to hear Roy Masters late at night while driving. My recollection is that he was interesting to listen to but always seemed a little weird in the way he spoke down to people. He would have been a good cult leader, if he’s not already.


9 posted on 09/16/2012 3:26:59 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: wideminded

He is actually the kindest man I have ever heard on radio. He can be pretty strong also at times for sure but does not speak down to people.


10 posted on 09/16/2012 4:45:22 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

bump!


11 posted on 09/16/2012 7:13:19 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

He can be kind. He can also be very strong and blunt. He will tell you the truth and that is for sure.


12 posted on 09/16/2012 8:38:59 PM PDT by tedw (addiction)
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To: fabian

Thanks for the ping. :>)


13 posted on 09/16/2012 8:40:38 PM PDT by OneVike (I'm just a Christian waiting to go home)
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To: tedw

yes...actually I have seen the kindest people be the strongest also in truth.


14 posted on 09/16/2012 8:59:32 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: OneVike

you’re welcome


15 posted on 09/16/2012 9:00:10 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian; Colofornian; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; ..

He may be a conservative, and understand some valid principles and say some good things, but he is not simply a conservative, but a spiritual leader with as gospel, and thus i cannot join the adulation of this hypnotist- turned-psychologist, with his often rude manner.

Masters basically approaches Christianity from a mystical viewpoint, and provides little doctrinal material in the classic Christian sense. Masters sees being “ born again” as a process of growth, resulting in ceasing to sin. (www.fhu.com/statement-of-belief4.html)

Christian salvation is seen being a process of God’s work reclaiming the corrupted hearts, minds, and consciences of individuals who repent of their weakness. His teaching and emphasizes individual conscience and adherence to life principles, mainly from a psychological or philosophical perspective, and for which he promotes his meditation techniques, which apparently involves looking through the middle of the forehead, as though one was sitting inside their head and looking out. (www.drlwilson.com/articles/meditation.htm).

Masters affirms that Jesus of Nazareth is the only begotten Son of God and Messiah, yet he denies the historical Christian Trinity. (www.fhu.com/statement-of-belief1.html), and instead stated that “one of the biggest curses in religion Christendom is the false idea that Jesus is God; it is imperative that you not believe that Jesus is God.”

Masters states he takes the Bible literally as the word from God, versus the word of God, nor the Bible itself as holy, as consistent with his mystical viewpoint he distinguishes between the words and understanding, so that the standard for truth is not the Bible, but what the Bible awakes one in his own heart. Masters explains that he meditates in a special way so as to detach his conscious spirit from his imagination and thereby attains reality. This is criticized as being overly subjective, as is Masters’ claim that he does not break any of the laws of God, and that being born again being a result of growth from Divine sperm (metaphorically) being implanted. (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/waltermartindotcom/2011/06/05/walter-martin-takes-on-roy-masters.mp3 Walter Martin Takes on Roy Masters], audio debate, 1980, 9-10, 34-43, 47-50 minute periods)

Moreover, the type of adulation “above that which is written” (1Cor. 4:) exhibited by some of his followers is disconcerting, and Masters also once boasted, “I could get people to die for me any day. I’ve got more power over people than Adolph Hitler and Jim Jones combined, because I’m smarter. I know how to push people’s buttons” (Los Angeles Times, 12/3/78; http://www.watchman.org/cults/newdimen.htm).

Roy Masters, founder and director, was born Reuben Obermeister to a Jewish family in London, England. At age 15 he worked at his uncle’s diamond-cutting factory in Brighton after his father died.

As a young boy he became interested in hypnotism. He added to his hypnotism techniques after studying African witchdoctor rites during his apprenticeship at South African diamond mines when he was 18.

He came to America in 1949, at age 21, to lecture on diamonds. He legally changed his name to Roy Masters in 1954 (yet never acquired American citizenship) and eventually became a professional hypnotist claiming he could “save people by teaching them self-sufficiency meditative hypnosis.” More: http://www.watchman.org/cults/roymstrs.htm
http://www.dionysus.org/forums/archive/index.php4?t-147.html


16 posted on 09/17/2012 6:26:40 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

His own words...

http://www.fhu.com/statement-of-belief1.html


17 posted on 09/17/2012 6:46:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

What you did was a very liberal thing...hit piece. A good example of that is your quote here..”Moreover, the type of adulation “above that which is written” (1Cor. 4:) exhibited by some of his followers is disconcerting, and Masters also once boasted, “I could get people to die for me any day. I’ve got more power over people than Adolph Hitler and Jim Jones combined, because I’m smarter. I know how to push people’s buttons” (Los Angeles Times, 12/3/78; http://www.watchman.org/cults/newdimen.htm).";
What you left out was Roy was using that as an example of how he knows how to use the mind control techniques of evil people, but NEVER would. It was merely said in that light to explain that he knows the info about the darkness, and you are actually using that to a degree with your judgment of a very good man. That is all I will say and it is religious hypocrites like you that give Christianity a false name. God bless though! You don’t know how much you need it.


18 posted on 09/17/2012 7:26:38 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Elsie

Thank you


19 posted on 09/17/2012 7:27:54 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Elsie

Indeed, that was one of my references, as is his own words in the linked debate which provides more of his denial of basic Christian truths, and substantiates his highly subjective means of determining the truth he boldly asserts.


20 posted on 09/17/2012 7:41:06 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fabian; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; smvoice; HarleyD; HossB86; wmfights; ...

Can you provide the article with the missing context? I would like to see it, while the the level of adulation of him, even as a “very good man” while denying the Deity of Christ and making being born again into a process, and that the Bible itself is not the standard for truth, but his highly subjective understanding of it, and denigrating listening to preachers (does he ever recommended one?) while exalting himself, indicates to me that rather than NEVER using the mind control techniques of cults, then he knows the craft too well.


21 posted on 09/17/2012 7:54:46 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fabian; daniel1212
What you did was a very liberal thing...hit piece.

LOL! Now letting us know the truth, that Masters denies the essential Christian belief in Jesus as God, is a liberal hit piece. Who knew?

Tnx, Dan'l.

Peace,

SR

22 posted on 09/17/2012 7:56:04 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: fabian; daniel1212
What you did was a very liberal thing...hit piece.

No, on the contrary, daniel1212 did something increasingly rare in today's uncritical Christian environment - employed spiritual discernment. In his own words, Masters shows that he doesn't even understand the fundamentals of the doctrine of the trinity but expressedly speaks in modalistic terms. The simple fact that he cannot clearly express the concept of the trinity is a huge red flag. Studying under shaman witchdoctors, etc is another - absolutely NO evidence he seriously studied the scriptures.

Roy Masters teaches another Jesus, one that we are scripturally warned not to follow.

23 posted on 09/17/2012 8:14:09 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: daniel1212

You can know that EASILY by reading his site that he OBVIOUSLY was demonstrating that he knows how evil works. How dare you slander s good man...yes, wow, I wrote good man! Adulation no, respect and love, yes. You are misrepresenting your faith in a bad way.


24 posted on 09/17/2012 8:42:18 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Springfield Reformer

for the first few hundred years of Christendom, Jesus was NOT seen as God...because anyone with any sense could see he served his Father. What dummies..... : )


25 posted on 09/17/2012 8:44:12 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

Masters is a lost fool.

The blind leading the blind. He has no understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and leads all his victims astray like lemmings.


26 posted on 09/17/2012 8:50:58 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: fabian; Springfield Reformer

>> “for the first few hundred years of Christendom, Jesus was NOT seen as God.” <<

.
What an ignorant lie!

Jesus said plainly “I and the Father are ONE.”

And, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.”


27 posted on 09/17/2012 8:56:09 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: fabian

>What dummies<

Why is ignorant is the idea that to be subject to someones disallows them as being of the same nature, which would renders wives to be subhuman due to being in subjection to their husbands, which is patterned after the order of the Godhead. (1Cor. 11:3)

And which also reveals how “one” in Scripture can refer to a composite unity. As it is God said “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness,” (Gn. 1:26; cf. 11:6; Is. 6:10) and man has a body, soul and spirit. (1Ths. 5:23)

That Jesus is ontologically one (having the same Divine nature), wit uniquely Divine titles, attributes and glory being attributed to Him is what Scripture reveals. Again, see http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/DEITYofCHRIST.html


28 posted on 09/17/2012 8:57:53 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fabian

He is the one who slanders us, and is now exposed.


29 posted on 09/17/2012 8:58:52 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Godzilla

Amen


30 posted on 09/17/2012 8:59:54 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fabian
for the first few hundred years of Christendom, Jesus was NOT seen as God...because anyone with any sense could see he served his Father. What dummies..... : )

That is not the view of the Apostles. John wrote - 1:1 . . the Word was with God andthe Word was God

Paul wrote in Titus 2:13 ". . . our great God and Savior Jesus Christ"

Anyone with any biblical sense can see your view is bunk.

31 posted on 09/17/2012 9:28:33 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: fabian

Well, I think John the Apostle, who was a contemporary of Jesus, went out of his way to make sure people understood Jesus was an uncreated being who was rightly considered God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Please note this is well supported by both the Greek and the historical circumstances of the writing of John, who directed considerable effort to dispelling the early heresy of the Gnostics, who viewed Christ as an intermediate deity in the “eternal progression,” the great gulf that separated the perfection of the Unknowable Spirit from evil materiality. No room for an uncreated being in that motley crew of so-called lesser deities.

John’s statement in these and many other places make it easy to understand why the very first generation of Christians fell into believing in Jesus as God in the flesh. Don’t blame the Babylonians or the Mithraists for this. Blame the Holy Spirit of God, who Himself caused these words to be written, knowing full well any decent student of the Greek would have no honest choice but to believe that john was teaching the full deity of Jesus Christ.

Peace,

SR


32 posted on 09/17/2012 10:42:50 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: editor-surveyor

yes..he was one with the Father...not literally! Daaaa! Good lord you guys are so caught up in the apostasy because you just will not accept that we can live sinless, just as Jesus told Mary to go and sin no more and John said if we continue to sin yet say we love God we are liars. You guys need to see Jesus as God to have one BIG excuse for sinning. After all, if you cannot do as only God was able to do, you are Ok! wow, you guys demean and miss the power of what Jesus came to do and shame on all of you! : )


33 posted on 09/17/2012 10:43:39 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian; editor-surveyor
John said if we continue to sin yet say we love God we are liars.

Play with John, get burned by John -

1Jo 1:8 KJV - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:10 KJV - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You are lacking the truth and his word fabian if you claim you are not committing any sins.

34 posted on 09/17/2012 10:58:27 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

Guys; he’s all yours!


35 posted on 09/17/2012 11:10:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla

that is past sins! Daaaa! obviously Jesus defeated sin for us to be free of it finally! You and many are missing it. Too bad....and sad.


36 posted on 09/17/2012 11:22:09 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian

You must be contexturally challenged fabie.


37 posted on 09/17/2012 11:59:06 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: fabian

The apostasy is all yours.

Jesus made the point that he is God sufficient times that there is no excuse for your absurdities.

There is none righteous, no not one. That is what God’s word says. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. That is also what the word says.

You say you aree sinless? You are a liar!


38 posted on 09/17/2012 1:46:23 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

You don’t know if I sin or not. On the other hand I know you do as you are full of judgement thinking it is righteousness. Jesus will treat you just like he treated the pharisees of his time unless you wake up. I am very happy I am not in your shoes! Yikes!


39 posted on 09/17/2012 2:18:25 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian
for the first few hundred years of Christendom, Jesus was NOT seen as God...because anyone with any sense could see he served his Father. What dummies..... : )

And you are misrepresenting the Christian faith in a bad way! If this is the kind of "theology" Masters is teaching his followers, he is leading them down the wide path to hell - get out while you can. Jesus was ALWAYS seen as Almighty God in the flesh and the New Testament is FULL of passages that prove it!

40 posted on 09/17/2012 3:09:43 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: fabian

John 10:32-36

King James Version (KJV)

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


41 posted on 09/17/2012 3:29:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fabian; Godzilla
that is past sins! Daaaa! obviously Jesus defeated sin for us to be free of it finally! You and many are missing it. Too bad....and sad.

Too bad and sad for the Apostle Paul? After 25 years as a Christian he said:

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25)

As long as we are in this human body, this flesh, we are subject to the law of sin and we continue to sin even though we have a new nature, a spirit nature, that lives for God. Christ has freed us from the penalty of our sin - which is eternal death in hell - and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, we are given the strength and grace to be conformed more fully to the image of Christ. But we will NEVER be perfected in the flesh until we go to heaven to be with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and we will put on incorruption and immortality and sin will no longer have any place within us. If someone is saying we can be free of ALL sin, right now in this flesh, he is not speaking the truth.

42 posted on 09/17/2012 3:39:14 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: fabian


Turn to Exodus 3, where Moses encounters God in the burning bush. God tells Moses that he is the one He has chosen to lead the Israelites out of Egypt.

Moses says to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me 'What is His name?'

Then what shall I tell them?"

God replies to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

God has said that His own name, His personal name, is "I AM."

Now...

a) Turn to John 8:56-58. Jesus is talking to the unbelieving Jews.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing My day; he saw it and was glad."

"You are not yet 50 years old," they said to Him, "and you have seen Abraham?"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus announced, "before Abraham was, I AM!"

Jesus was the great I AM from before the beginning of time; He existed before Abraham ever was. He is claiming here to be the I AM of the Old Testament. Verse 59 says the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but the Lord Jesus slipped away. The reason they wanted to stone Him was because stoning was the death penalty for blasphemy. He was claiming to be Yahweh--Jehovah--Almighty God--I AM. (Of course, it wasn't blasphemy when Christ claimed to be who He truly was!)

b) John 8:24. "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins."

In your Bible, it may read "if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be...." The extra words are supplied by the editors; they're not in the original text. If you're familiar with Exodus 3 you don't need the extra words for it to make grammatical sense. The Lord Jesus is again claiming to be God.

c) John 18:4. In the Garden of Gethsemane, Judas and some priests and soldiers are about to take Jesus prisoner.

"Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to Him, went out and asked them, 'Who is it that you want?'

'Jesus of Nazareth,' they replied.

'I AM,' Jesus said.

When He said, 'I AM,' they drew back and fell to the ground." (Again, in your Bible the editors may have supplied "I am [he]" to make it grammatically correct. The Greek just says, "I AM.")

The force of Jesus' claim to be Yahweh (I AM) was so powerful that it literally knocked the arresting officers and the Jewish priests off their feet!

43 posted on 09/17/2012 3:44:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

same ole mantra of brainwashed Christians...disregarding the fact that Jesus severed his father and said so many times.


44 posted on 09/17/2012 3:59:23 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: boatbums

fine..keep believing the lie.. : )


45 posted on 09/17/2012 4:01:04 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian; Godzilla
that is past sins!

No. John is quite explicit. The verb “exomev” ("to have"), in "we have no sin," is present tense indicative plural. John includes himself, and puts it in the present tense. John has sin, I have sin, you have sin. John is saying this is our condition, and even his condition, right now. Then, as if anticipating the objections of the self-righteous, he doubles down and says if you think you don't have sin, right now, you are lying to yourself.

So for you to conclude this passage speaks of past sin, you are required to invent meaning that is just not present in this text. Sorry. You need to double check the logic that led you to your conclusion. There is probably an error if you look closely.

You also referred to those who believe in Christ's deity as dummies. Illuminate me. What is the difference between a dummy and a fool? Because if you are calling us fools (aka dummies), then how do you square your proposed sinlessness with direct disobedience to an explicit command of Christ regarding name-calling?:

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Peace,

SR

46 posted on 09/17/2012 4:59:57 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Because I am not mad and still call you guys very gullible dummies! : ) Have a good one!


47 posted on 09/17/2012 5:58:45 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: fabian; editor-surveyor; Godzilla; Springfield Reformer; metmom; boatbums; caww; ...
John is providing a basic contrast btwn the with lost and believer, and as Martin stated in refuting Masters on the tape, John did not teach that born again Christian never sin, but as the Greek is in the continuous sense in 1Jn. 3:8-10; 5:18, and are contrasted with the lost, and as John told believers that they have forgiveness when they if they confess them, while those who deny they have sin are liars, then this refers to knowingly impenitently practicing breaking God's law. As the classic scholar Robertson stated long ago, The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive). Other texts also confirm true born again believers sin, even if out of weakness, (Gal. 2:11) and may struggle with sin, such as of the heart. (Heb. 12:1) J. C. Ryle does a good job of describing the attitude of the born again believer: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/rubornagain.html Scripture also refutes that being born again is a process of growth, but a regeneration of conversion that results in growth. Finally, John also taught that "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God," (1Jn. 5:1) and that Christ is God, (1Jn. 1:3) even the Lord whom Isaiah saw in His glory and said, "who shall go for US, (Jn. 12:34b-46; Is. 6:1-10) and he is faithful to record Thomas declaring so, as "my Lord and my God." (Jn. 20:28) "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. " (1 John 5:20) Masters denies that Jesus is one in nature with the Father, sounding like an ignorant Muslim in objecting to it, and which denial is most consistent with cults who likewise mix a little key poison in with much truth. Masters is also akin to such in his wholesale denigration of Christian teachers - these being his competition - and the those who are born of God but must disagree with him, and exalting himself. Sounds more like Joseph Smith than John who said, that "we should love one another." As one interviewer said, In fact, he opposes any and all who claim to teach the truth, heal the sick, counsel the troubled, or lead the way to God. "Anyone who has a remedy, a pill or technique to gain health and sanity," he emphasized, "--all the problem solvers--will be out of business when my message reaches the general public." (www.fhu.com/articles/healers_book1.html) Thus rather than us guys needing to see Jesus as God to have one BIG excuse for sinning, Masters sins as he must in reducing Christ and Christians who dare oppose him, exalting himself.
48 posted on 09/17/2012 6:36:08 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212

Paragraphs and spacing please. It would make the post easier to read.


49 posted on 09/17/2012 6:40:37 PM PDT by Mears
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To: fabian; editor-surveyor; Godzilla; Springfield Reformer; metmom; boatbums; caww; ...

Lets try that again, as some the Greek must look like html to the FR software :

John is providing a basic contrast btwn the with lost and believer, and as Martin stated in refuting Masters on the tape, John did not teach that born again Christian never sin, but as the Greek is in the continuous sense in 1Jn. 3:8-10; 5:18, and are contrasted with the lost, and as John told believers that they have forgiveness when they if they confess them, while those who deny they have sin are liars, then this refers to continually knowingly impenitently breaking God's law, rather than practicing righteousness.

As the classic scholar Robertson stated long ago,

The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,” as is true of hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8 and hamartanōn in 1Jo_3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see hamartēte and hamartēi in 1Jo_2:1.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here. Paul has precisely John’s idea in Rom_6:1 epimenōmen tēi hamartiāi (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with hamartēsōmen in Rom_6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).

Other texts also confirm true born again believers sin, even if out of weakness, (Gal. 2:11) and may struggle with sin, such as of the heart. (Heb. 12:1)

J. C. Ryle does a good job of describing the attitude of the born again believer: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/rubornagain.html

Scripture also refutes that being born again is a process of growth, but a regeneration of conversion that results in growth.

Finally, John also taught that "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God," (1Jn. 5:1) and that Christ is God, (1Jn. 1:3) even the Lord whom Isaiah saw in His glory and said, "who shall go for US, (Jn. 12:34b-46; Is. 6:1-10) and he is faithful to record Thomas declaring so, as "my Lord and my God." (Jn. 20:28)

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. " (1 John 5:20)

Masters denies that Jesus is one in nature with the Father, sounding like an ignorant Muslim in objecting to it, and which denial is most consistent with cults who likewise mix a little key poison in with much truth.

Masters is also akin to such in his wholesale denigration of Christian teachers - these being his competition - and the those who are born of God but must disagree with him, and exalting himself. Sounds more like Joseph Smith than John who said, that "we should love one another."

As one interviewer said,

In fact, he opposes any and all who claim to teach the truth, heal the sick, counsel the troubled, or lead the way to God.

"Anyone who has a remedy, a pill or technique to gain health and sanity," he emphasized, "--all the problem solvers--will be out of business when my message reaches the general public." (www.fhu.com/articles/healers_book1.html)

And rather than us guys needing to see Jesus as God to have one big excuse for sinning, that actually serves to deter sin, while Masters )and cults) sins in reducing Christ and Christians who dare oppose him, and exalting himself.

50 posted on 09/17/2012 6:51:07 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute actual sinner, + trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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