Posted on 09/16/2012 8:03:11 PM PDT by Thorliveshere
My brother and I have been going back and forth over the last few years, his atheism has really taken a sharp curve into aggravating territory. I got this message from him, and I'm trying to let my anger subside before I respond. I'm curious what you would say:
The only two things you should ever worry about getting married to each other are big government and big religion. While many are very vocally opposed to "redefining marriage" (even, though there are more than one definition of marriage if you bother to look in a dictionary) they don't realize that, in the process, they are redefining the word "liberty". Anyone who believes that big government is too intrusive on their personal lives, but also believes that using religion to dictate the liberty of others isn't intrusive, needs to look in a mirror... for there they will most definitely find the definition of "hypocrite".
He is absolutely right in my minority opinion on this subject.
Marriage is a sacrament of traditional Faith, and I object to the state’s perversion of it.
Statism is not intrinsically a good thing.
Are you conflating atheism and libertarianism?
“Be sure to tell him you love him every chance you get.”
I totally agree with that.
And just don’t discuss religion or politics with him. He has made up his mind unless something happens in his life to change him. We can’t control our relatives but we can love them anyway.
Maybe you’re lucky. Listen to this. My sister is a regular churchgoer (RC), I’m not, and while I’m sorta goody-goody, she’s the devil in disguise.
I don’t know, maybe encouraging stability and responsibility that started with the Mycenaeans from a Western Civilization standpoint. Marriage and government coincided with each other way back in those days and continued all the way to today. In America before the 16th Amendment and expansion thereof the people did not have to worry about tax credits and stuff like that because they policed themselves in that regard plus the tax liability was not an issue because they understood why the Mycenaeans did what they did.. Enter big government, with a resentful Libertarian view and ta-da, 4,000 years of correct stability down the drain. Also, was a nifty way at organizing society thus the tradition of the wife to take the husband’s last name, would not want incest to be a problem one example...
It’s really very simple: marriage already has a definition and a function that has been observed, nurtured and promoted in every nation and/or culture on planet Earth throughout time and that definitely isn’t coincidence. Of what other custom or institution can anyone make that claim?
The definition is the key here because it provides the most unassailable base of logic, namely A is not transformed into B simply because someone says it is or wants it to be so.
The same goes for the rather bizarre argument that because problems such as divorce exist in marriage that married people are somehow ‘unworthy’ of its stewardship and that only gays can ‘rescue’ marriage. I hate cliches and motherly nagging but in this case two wrongs definitely don’t make a right.
Making a religious argument about marriage with an atheist is probably futile since they will be happy to attack religion all day in an attempt to redefine marriage. Ditto for religious objections to homosexuality, however justified.
For a nice head-spinner, ask him why he spends so much time attempting to disprove that which he is convinced is false already.
First amendment :
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . .
Marriage is an establishment of religion
Gay marriage is a government ruling regarding the religious establishment of marriage
American civics allows massive freedoms to transgress almost all known Christian ethic. To pretend we are close to or on the verge of theocracy is absurd and betrays gross ignorance of such governance would look like. That ignorance is further betrayed by the abundance of such odious governments around the world that are rightly opposed by America.
Ignore the elephant in the living room. Got it.
No... Government, at ANY level has no business in a Holy Sacrament.
Government doesn't keep Big Caveman from knocking anyone over the head, or knocking anyone up.
Move marriage back to the Church, and away from government.
/johnny
Well, may the living God in His mercy convict them otherwise!
We do not advocate laws promoting addiction.
That is not a loving thing to do either for society or the individual.
Government or authority generally has been for many, many centuries, even before Christianity.
It makes things like a Brad Pitt & Angie Jolie divorce easier.
19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”
8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Graham Cooke explained this story like this...
So in those days to have a man of Honor stay at your house was a gigantic honor in that community. It was the ultimate shout out, or retweet that you were “it”. So why did Jesus honor him? Look what he says in verse 8. If I have cheated anyone (the term “if” in original language is ... “if,and um.. I have” I will pay them back 4 xs that amount” By Jesus honoring Zacheaus the entire community was blessed because he changed his heart in the present, went back and repaid 4 times that amount for the past. And would not abuse the community in the future....
Ok, so... whats the point. The point is, Jesus showed up loving Zacheaus first. Did he say, “ zacheaus you ripped people off you suck. You are going to hell if you dont repent!” No, he loved him. I would contend that your brother is blind, and you wouldnt mock a blind man for tripping over the furniture. You would love him and show him mercy.... his atheism does not invalidate your faith. You have something he does not, peace. Show up loving him and have a sense of peace as you do it. That will be what screams to him more than telling him he will go to hell.
Islam, Mormonism, and the SanFranatheist animal farm church, defining marriage? No thanks.
Yes, the radical left agenda of theirs does match up with atheism.
Marriage has definitely existed in (almost) every culture.
But the definition and form of marriage has varied quite dramatically, along with its social and legal implications and consequences.
What has never existed before, AFAIK, is anything resembling true “gay marriage,” but the variety of marriages between men and women is quite large.
So they can make a buck off of divorce
Separation means the state is a hired servant and has no beans in how its master worships. That being said, the master has a say in how the state shall behave, that, definitely so, according to certain guidelines that can be traced back to religion but which involve no worship.
As for the “Under God” allegiance, that is an allegiance of the citizen to his Country and some form of higher powers, and it has nothing to do with allegiance to the state or a church police state like in the Vatican. A nation can have a church or a religious like character, and it is not a state.
In other words, by mixing state and nation, your brother is thinking of a Nazi or a church or cult nation-state like culture colonizing and privately/corporatitavely, so to speak, owning an entire nation. So, the atheists are the ones militanting for a full blown establishment of religion, mores and cults by the government.
This is because atheists are inherently government animals who want to take over their master and tell their master what to do and how to worship.
I think you should tell him that when you marry a rock and a cloud the kids will be eoither a crock or a croud...make that a crowd.
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