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1 posted on 09/16/2012 8:03:17 PM PDT by Thorliveshere
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To: Thorliveshere
Homosexuality is about personal addiction, though many deny it.

We do not advocate laws promoting addiction.

That is not a loving thing to do either for society or the individual.

30 posted on 09/16/2012 8:41:00 PM PDT by what's up
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To: Thorliveshere
The only two things you should ever worry about getting married to each other are big government and big religion.
Hmmm that is exactly what we are seeing right now . Big government married to big religion .
Secular humanism is a religion and a great big fat one at that .

34 posted on 09/16/2012 8:49:19 PM PDT by Lera (Proverbs 29:2)
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To: Thorliveshere

Separation means the state is a hired servant and has no beans in how its master worships. That being said, the master has a say in how the state shall behave, that, definitely so, according to certain guidelines that can be traced back to religion but which involve no worship.

As for the “Under God” allegiance, that is an allegiance of the citizen to his Country and some form of higher powers, and it has nothing to do with allegiance to the state or a church police state like in the Vatican. A nation can have a church or a religious like character, and it is not a state.

In other words, by mixing state and nation, your brother is thinking of a Nazi or a church or cult nation-state like culture colonizing and privately/corporatitavely, so to speak, owning an entire nation. So, the atheists are the ones militanting for a full blown establishment of religion, mores and cults by the government.

This is because atheists are inherently government animals who want to take over their master and tell their master what to do and how to worship.


38 posted on 09/16/2012 9:00:43 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Thorliveshere

I think you should tell him that when you marry a rock and a cloud the kids will be eoither a crock or a croud...make that a crowd.


39 posted on 09/16/2012 9:04:30 PM PDT by stevem
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To: Thorliveshere

When kids believe in Santa Claus there’s a naughty and nice list. Does one child get to declare I don’t believe in Santa therefore I get a gift from Santa no matter what I do, while the other child plays by the rules to get a gift from Santa? Usually the non-believing child no longer gets a gift from Santa but from mom and dad.

Marriage is a gift from God and we believers live under His law, if you don’t believe and live by Gods law, why should you get a gift of God that is for His believers? Have a civil union that isn’t a gift from God but a gift of mans law.

Does a Mathematician rant and rave and go ape-chit offended with a book containing words because it is not all numbers? Atheists and homosexuals just want to snatch the lolly from another. Miserable Nellie Olesons...the lot of them!


41 posted on 09/16/2012 9:05:48 PM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: Thorliveshere

Now, as for marriage, it is the story of the union between man and woman, as masters of the state, to their fruitfulness, which defines marriage.

It is not the reverse, marriage which defines what a union is.

This is historical revisionist stuff. THey do not understand what defines what. They redefine the word marriage.

Homosexuals can have contracts with each other, but, that, in and of itself, is not marriage per say, it is another form of a union or allegiance to each other, however horrifying in this instance, because it inherently makes for sexual slavery and exploitation.

How can atheists who have been howlering against marriage as a way of enslaving women now say it is ok for a man to enslave another one. It makes no sense at all.

This is a loophole for sexual exploitation and sex trade that they are seeking, as well as all the other sorts of cannibalisms.

Food makes blood, blood makes not food. Man and woman makes marriage, marriage does not make man and woman. Just as when a muslim tells me Jesus came down from the cross unharmed, I tell him that is not the same Jesus as mine. The story is what makes the name, and the name cannot be ascribe to stories that keep changing, this is utter corruption and weak mindedness, a cop out.

Gays are like that, they have to live a “Bagdad Bob” life of true denial in the ways they harm themselves. They cannot think of any other way to hide their shame and repent. They are inherently unforgivors and dangerous. Taboos or restriction against sin or compulsive human impulses that do exist is not true denial, it’s temptation.

THey are mixing everything up and confusing themselves and us in the process. It is a mental disease of theirs which can be contagious.


43 posted on 09/16/2012 9:10:36 PM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Thorliveshere

There is a huge difference in not believing in God and being militantly anti-God.


45 posted on 09/16/2012 9:13:42 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Thorliveshere

For me at least, God and organized religion are two different entities. It seems like your brother’s problem is with organized religion more than with God.


47 posted on 09/16/2012 9:17:36 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Thorliveshere

it’s very simple. your brother has it historically backwards. it is he who is the hypocrite, imposing his *elimination* of the elements of God’s original, pure Law of Marriage to suit his own purposes. it is man and his government that has gradually encroached on God’s Law of marriage, making it into no more than a secular contract. it is your brother and his leftist ilk (yes atheists are the worst kind of leftist) who are imposing their own idol (the anti-god; or man the god) in place of the true God.

God was First. there can be no question. the Law of marriage was written by God on man long before man could make his own law. God’s law must take precedence or there is no civil society possible. period. a nation divided cannot stand. a nation of laws imposed by opposing gods cannot stand either. so your brother’s ignorant or, perhaps, unstated purpose is the destruction of our civil society which was crafted by our founders specifically for and can therefore continue to exist only under the one true God.

denial of this truth for atheists is paramount. ergo, the need for atheists to *separate* God from government and polities, which is an absurdity on it’s face.

again. man cannot change the defintion of true Marriage. that is writ large by the Almighty Himself. to the extent that he imposes his changes on that original definition on all of us, he must enslave us and destroy society. this is why we conservatives oppose all attempts to eliminate God’s precepts from marriage.


49 posted on 09/16/2012 9:20:18 PM PDT by dadfly
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To: Thorliveshere

Make up with your Brother and only talk about positive stuff.


51 posted on 09/16/2012 9:21:36 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: Thorliveshere

Ok, first what do you think marriage is?
Does the government really have a roll in deciding what it is?
If someone wants to get married in the US there are hundreds of churches who will perform the ceremony.
Most states will grant a civil union certificate, which gives all the state’s rights of a married couple.
The federal government does not recognize civil unions for tax purposes.
I do not know of any insurance company that does not provide coverage for civil unions.
So what is it that you are angry over?
It is important for you to know what you think marriage is.
In my opinion marriage is the earthly representation of the marriage between Christ and His church.
No government can change that, it is what it is, God had ordained it.
Homosexuals want normalization, they do not care about “marriage in and of it self, they can already get married, they can all ready have a civil union....that is not their goal.
Homosexuality can never be normalized in the Eyes of God, no anger towards your brother will change that.
No anger towards homosexuals who are desperate to be normal will do that.
We can not redefine what God has defined.
Decide why you are angry, decide if your anger towards your brother is a valid.
Those are questions that can only be answered by you.
I pray for your wisdom.
God’s speed.


53 posted on 09/16/2012 9:30:04 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Thorliveshere

Ask him to explain the difference between liberty and anarchy.


58 posted on 09/16/2012 9:47:53 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Thorliveshere

A book that could be helpful for you in thinking through how to deal with him is “Evangelism Made Slightly Less Difficult”, by Nick Pollard.


59 posted on 09/16/2012 9:49:40 PM PDT by butterdezillion
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To: Thorliveshere

Don’t bother, he’s lost. His logic is flawed.


62 posted on 09/16/2012 10:03:45 PM PDT by Fledermaus (Democrats are dangerous and evil. Republicans are just useful idiots.)
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To: Thorliveshere

He is just trying to irritate you. Unless you enjoy arguing with him... don’t respond at all... it is just a waste of your time and energy.


63 posted on 09/16/2012 10:13:33 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: Thorliveshere
Your brother is operating from the premise that homosexuality is normal, natural behavior, and therefore any law against it is purely for religious reasons. This is where you attack.

Inform him that a majority of Americans still consider homosexuality to be a sexual disorder (as well as a sin), so why would anyone support using the government to force Americans to accept homosexuality as normal? And the only reason for "gay marriage" is precisely to force people to accept homosexuality as normal because it will be law that two men or women having sex is the same as a man and a woman having sex. Tell him forcefully that homosexuality is a SEXUAL DISORDER and should be treated as such.

If you accept the premise that homosexuality is normal natural behavior, you've already lost the argument, because "human rights" concerns logically appear after that concession.
64 posted on 09/16/2012 10:45:46 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Thorliveshere

Secular humanism is a religion, so our Big Government is already wedding to a big religion.


65 posted on 09/16/2012 10:50:24 PM PDT by Truthsearcher
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To: Thorliveshere
The only two things you should ever worry about ...

Stop right there. Your dear brother is already presupposing things that he cannot account for, explain or justify, given his atheistic world-view. He is adopting a presupposition contrary to the conclusion he wants to argue; namely, that there is no God.

Already, when he says, "should", or (later) uses the word, "hypocrite" he presupposes some sort of absolute standards of morality or reason that are universal and prescriptive in nature, the very things that are precluded by his own world view. His prescriptions do not make any sense unless it is objectively wrong, for example, to redefine the word "liberty", marry big government and big religion, or be a hypocrite.

But how does he justify his notion that some things are good and some things are evil when in the atheistic world-view everything just amounts to different combinations of matter in motion? What sense does it make to think that matter in motion is not behaving as it 'ought" to?

Your brother's atheism cannot account for his moral umbrage. He is not in any position to explain the objective and unchanging nature of moral notions like good or evil because his atomic makeup as opposed to someone else's atomic makeup ultimately reduces to mere relativistic preferences for thinking,

And because your brother is a finite, ever changing collection of molecules and electrochemical reactions he is also in no position to pronounce on what is universally true even in a descriptive sense because the aforesaid electro-chemical reactions that make up your brother are limited in the scope of their use and experiences.

In short, his arguments and claims are self-vitiating and incoherent.

Cordially,

66 posted on 09/16/2012 10:54:43 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Thorliveshere

Is your brother a homosexual? Maybe he is trying to tell you something. Ask him. If he isn’t it might take him back a bit to be asked if he is one.
Other than that I would simply tell him that darkness cannot comprehend light and since he doesn’t at this time confess Christ as LORD and Saviour he cannot understand the truth of the matter, but you will pray for his salvation. And then do it. Pray for him. Ask God to save him, as only He can. Pray and even weep for him before The LORD, because if he doesn’t get saved, he will burn in the lake of fire forever. If all of us would come to stronger grips with this fact, we would be praying with many tears for those we love, and The LORD would hear.


67 posted on 09/16/2012 11:06:36 PM PDT by Bellflower (The LORD is Holy, separated from all sin, perfect, righteous, high and lifted up.)
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To: Thorliveshere

He sounds like my brother and I have decided that the only thing that will get through to him is prayer. I said the same thing to my other brother who wanted to reason with him, it can’t be done because he isn’t reasonable and will not change his mind absent an act of God.

So I will optimistically pray for him and also pray that he doesn’t find the time to vote if God doesn’t change him in the next few months.


68 posted on 09/16/2012 11:22:40 PM PDT by tiki
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