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X marks the spot: Walter Elliot on his use of ancient art of divination
The Southern Reporter (Scotland, UK) ^ | 9-16-2012

Posted on 09/17/2012 11:50:46 AM PDT by Renfield

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This stuff really works. I've dowsed for water lines for years, and on our recent trip to Britain, we used copper dowsing rods to find the Michael and Mary lines.
1 posted on 09/17/2012 11:50:48 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 09/17/2012 11:51:57 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield
This stuff really works.

My wife's uncle used to help out at old cemeteries, divining for lost grave sites. Apparently it worked.

3 posted on 09/17/2012 11:55:04 AM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Renfield

Silliness, i can walk around half of the great plains with two sticks and say “dig here”. Guess what? They’ll hit the water table.

This is about as scientific as using a pocketwatch pendulum over a pregnant woman to guess the sex, or reading tea leaves.


4 posted on 09/17/2012 11:58:26 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino
as scientific as using a pocketwatch pendulum over a pregnant woman to guess the sex

Really? It's that accurate, huh? I'm 100% out of 22 on sexing babies with a needle and thread.

I guess I should try the rods.
5 posted on 09/17/2012 12:03:49 PM PDT by SpinnerWebb (In 2012 you will awaken from your HOPEnosis and have no recollection of this... "Constitution")
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To: randog

My well was witched. He was off by 5’ in dept,spot on in gallons per minute. Fascinating.


6 posted on 09/17/2012 12:03:49 PM PDT by gunner03
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To: Renfield

Powder..patch..ball FIRE!

I can remember my grandfather deciding where to put the new well for his house using a “Y” from a willow.

when he hit the spot where the well actually ended up the ends in his hands twisted the bark off as the “witch” bent to the ground.

he could find a water or sewer pipe anyplace.


7 posted on 09/17/2012 12:03:49 PM PDT by BallandPowder
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To: randog

My well was witched. He was off by 5’ in dept,spot on in gallons per minute. Fascinating.


8 posted on 09/17/2012 12:04:10 PM PDT by gunner03
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To: Renfield
Good ol' Moses. Numbers 20:11

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

9 posted on 09/17/2012 12:04:10 PM PDT by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: Renfield

It’s hocus pocus nonsense, like a ouija board.


10 posted on 09/17/2012 12:05:12 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: ZX12R

I have seen scientific studies. When the “diviner” is blindfolded, the results are at best random.


11 posted on 09/17/2012 12:07:43 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (“We can’t just leave it (food choice) up to the parents.” moochele obozo 2/12/2012 (cnsnews))
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To: Renfield

If it really works, then it should be easily proven by having the practioner walk over a few test surfaces,,including one or two control beds with nothing in them at all.
Of course, then we’ll be told it was a prepared course, and the rods can only discern natural situations, not the others or some such excuse. This is New Orleans crystal ball fortune telling for old geezers. This is ESP.

This sounds like global warming science. Absolutely no requirement to follow the scientific method. Add in a compete denial of physical science, and just say “it works”.


12 posted on 09/17/2012 12:08:18 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Renfield

http://www2.connect.ab.ca/~tylosky/


13 posted on 09/17/2012 12:09:51 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: SpinnerWebb

Needle and thread? I want to believe you are not serious. Please say you are not serious.


14 posted on 09/17/2012 12:10:29 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: ZX12R
It’s hocus pocus nonsense, like a ouija board.

Not at all nonsense. Almost ANYONE can do it, except, I think, you. Myself, I dowsed an entire old lost water system. Accurately. I use metal coat hangers.

15 posted on 09/17/2012 12:14:56 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("There's an Ethiopian in the fuel supply!")
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To: DesertRhino

I have used metal witching sticks to find underground lines. It works. Have you tried it?


16 posted on 09/17/2012 12:16:35 PM PDT by matt1234 (As Obama sowed in the Arab Spring, so he is reaping in the Arab Fall.)
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To: Renfield

By all means bring your skills to the Amazing Randi and a check for $1 millioin dollars awaits you


17 posted on 09/17/2012 12:17:09 PM PDT by qam1 (There's been a huge party. All plates and the bottles are empty, all that's left is the bill to pay)
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To: freedumb2003
I have seen scientific studies. When the “diviner” is blindfolded, the results are at best random.

Yes, because that is all that's possible. People want to believe in old wives tales, superstitions, and that there exists all manner of magical goings on, but it simply isn't true. The real world is a rather dull place, compared to what some people believe.
18 posted on 09/17/2012 12:18:46 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: DesertRhino; Renfield
I have seen the use of metal rods to locate metal and pvc pipes. My theory is they work the way a regular utility locator works - VLF fields in the earth are disrupted/concentrated along long metal features. And in soils with magnetic minerals, the natural alignment of the magnetic minerals is disrupted when putting in a trench - so even a pvc pipe can be detected. Or perhaps an old Roman wall. A magnetometer survey can also find old trenches when the soils have magnetic minerals.

I don't know why a wood stick would work though. And definitely talking to the stick is weird.

19 posted on 09/17/2012 12:18:46 PM PDT by 21twelve (So I [God] gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices. Psalm 81:12)
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To: DesertRhino

“This is about as scientific as using a pocketwatch pendulum over a pregnant woman to guess the sex”

The pocket watch pendulum works. Only deniers would say otherwise. Every time it’s tried it works, with 100% accuracy. Every pregnant woman it’s been tried with has been proven to be a female.


20 posted on 09/17/2012 12:19:33 PM PDT by Flash Bazbeaux
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To: EggsAckley
Not at all nonsense. Almost ANYONE can do it, except, I think, you. Myself, I dowsed an entire old lost water system. Accurately. I use metal coat hangers.

I believe, that you believe you did that with coat hangers.
21 posted on 09/17/2012 12:21:41 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: matt1234

“It works. Have you tried it?”

No, been too busy with astrology and in my Alchemy lab. I’ll get to the other medieval magic soon as i can though.
Oops, gotta run, my favorite medium is telling me that my dead uncle wants to chat.


22 posted on 09/17/2012 12:22:20 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Renfield

It’s an electromagnetic response, and it’s well validated. All you have to do is look at the human body as an electromagnetic detection system, a magnifier if you will. That’s why blindfolding the dowser is bunk - how do you know that’s not part of it? Why should it be excluded? Who cares if the entire body and all the senses are magnified by the extension of the rods? Are seismographs bunk because the needles won’t move if you isolate the mechanism? Bah.

I’ll tell you why this is suppressed - because mainstream science doesn’t want to acknowledge sensitivities of the human body, or the limits of the technological applications of the scientific method. The idea is that in a thousand years, people will just be blobs of jello inside technological extrensions of the body that can be controlled by access to the “cloud” of the time. Realities of the abilities of the actual human body without technology - like dowsing, or meditation, or psi - get in the way of that. In fact, they sabotage it. After all, whether physical, mental, emotional, psychic or spiritual, you can’t have people thinking they can develop themselves through personal exploration and effort! That gets in the way of the developing collective!


23 posted on 09/17/2012 12:22:26 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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I can get you started for only $67.99 !!!

Order now, and I'll throw in

But wait... There's more!!!

24 posted on 09/17/2012 12:24:04 PM PDT by evets (beer)
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To: Talisker

“I’ll tell you why this is suppressed - because mainstream science doesn’t want to acknowledge sensitivities of the human body, or the limits of the technological applications of the scientific method. The idea is that in a thousand years, people will just be blobs of jello inside technological extrensions of the body that can be controlled by access to the “cloud” of the time. Realities of the abilities of the actual human body without technology - like dowsing, or meditation, or psi - get in the way of that. In fact, they sabotage it. After all, whether physical, mental, emotional, psychic or spiritual, you can’t have people thinking they can develop themselves through personal exploration and effort! That gets in the way of the developing collective!”

Dude, you got some pineapple express?


25 posted on 09/17/2012 12:27:36 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: evets; a fool in paradise; Slings and Arrows

26 posted on 09/17/2012 12:28:16 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: ZX12R
I have used both the Ouija board and divining rods and they both work. One is good and the other is evil.
I know from good and bad personal experiences.
27 posted on 09/17/2012 12:29:52 PM PDT by tractorman (I never miss a chance to tweak a liberal.)
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To: All

If you don’t believe in gifts beyond rational explanation, then you don’t believe in the salvation of God.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Atheists, go your way.


28 posted on 09/17/2012 12:30:53 PM PDT by Tuanedge
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To: ZX12R
It’s hocus pocus nonsense, like a ouija board.

All I can say is you must have never seen it done.

29 posted on 09/17/2012 12:32:00 PM PDT by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Renfield
I used to work in surveying and witnessed several "old hands" witching for well sites. We had an ancient dude who would come in and map dowse for buried landmarks if we were really stumped. It was an accepted practice in rural areas twenty years ago.

A pastor friend of mine was "run out of town" for interfering with water witching. He was pastoring a church someplace in New England where ground water is hard to locate and most of the local drillers used rods. Some of the fellows in the church were troubled by it, so they along with the pastor decided to "test the spirits." To accomplish this, they prayed together once a week that if the witching was the result of the action of unclean spirits that it would fail to work. Lo and behold, almost immediately the well drillers started having trouble finding water. Somehow they found out about the prayer group and then things got real ugly-fires, broken windows, gunshots at night, dead pets, you name it. The pastor ended up fleeing the state.

True story. And it happend in the 1970's, not the 1790's.

30 posted on 09/17/2012 12:35:12 PM PDT by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: Revolting cat!

A little TOO happy, I think.


31 posted on 09/17/2012 12:36:03 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Revolting cat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgiQPdPUNvs

Jack Nicholson, Easy Rider, the pot-induced Venutian conspiracy speech.


32 posted on 09/17/2012 12:37:04 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Renfield
I don't doubt this.

I use a dowser made of copper tubing to witch for Double Eagles.

The most I've ever found was a Garcia Y Vega cigar box full of them in my neighbor's abandoned cistern.

Haven't figured out what to do with them yet.

33 posted on 09/17/2012 12:37:08 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Tuanedge

So in your world, (and welcome to FR) if someone rejects Oija boards, ESP, and water witching,, you are an athiest?
Do ecplises scare you?


34 posted on 09/17/2012 12:40:13 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: tractorman
I have used both the Ouija board and divining rods and they both work. One is good and the other is evil. I know from good and bad personal experiences.

I know, due to understanding and education, that neither of those work. In fact, it is absolutely impossible, and can be confirmed with even the smallest effort of experimental control. By the way, I have a Mahindra tractor. If I put divining rods out on the bucket of my front end loader, and dug where they told me, do you think I'd dig up anything special? I don't think so. Not in a million years of trying. Only coincidentally, would I find anything. And I'm not guessing.
35 posted on 09/17/2012 12:41:04 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: DesertRhino
No, been too busy with astrology and in my Alchemy lab. I’ll get to the other medieval magic soon as i can though. Oops, gotta run, my favorite medium is telling me that my dead uncle wants to chat.

LOL!
36 posted on 09/17/2012 12:42:10 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Tuanedge

Nicely put.

But one has to be wary of abilities beyond rational explanation that might have dark forces behind them.

I definitely would put the Ouija Board in that category. Divining, not so much, especially given the Bible passage quoted earlier.


37 posted on 09/17/2012 12:45:28 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: DesertRhino
FYI, the method was taught to me by a professional underground locator. He had modern equipment for locating undergound power/tel lines. I told him I wanted to locate water lines. He did not have equipment for that, so he showed me the witching method.

Are you more knowledgable about locating underground lines than someone who does it professionally every day? If so, please state your credentials. We're all eager to hear them.

38 posted on 09/17/2012 12:48:06 PM PDT by matt1234 (As Obama sowed in the Arab Spring, so he is reaping in the Arab Fall.)
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To: jboot

That’s an interesting story. I told above about my wife’s uncle witching for lost graves, and my wife’s father, learning the craft from his brother but never using it, taught it to me one day. Although the rods did move without my perceived intervention (we walked my front lawn and the rods crossed whenever I passed over a known water line), the whole thing did give me that ‘Ouija Board’ vibe, IOW I felt that I was dealing with something I really shouldn’t be dealing with. Tossed the rods (bent coat hangers) and never did it again.


39 posted on 09/17/2012 12:48:06 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: Talisker
It’s an electromagnetic response, and it’s well validated. All you have to do is look at the human body as an electromagnetic detection system, a magnifier if you will

That may be all fine and well, but can it explain map dowsing? Several times I witnessed a fellow seated in a comfortable chair in a downtown office use a roadmap and a pendulum to locate hidden foundations and culverts on a long-abandoned parcel fifty miles away.

I can think of a spiritual explanaton for map dowsing, but not a scientific one.

40 posted on 09/17/2012 12:49:42 PM PDT by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: DesertRhino
Silliness, i can walk around half of the great plains with two sticks and say “dig here”. Guess what? They’ll hit the water table. This is about as scientific as using a pocketwatch pendulum over a pregnant woman to guess the sex, or reading tea leaves

Don't be so hasty. there is a perfectly logical explanation...

41 posted on 09/17/2012 12:50:40 PM PDT by The_Sword_of_Groo (My world view is accurately expressed in the lyrics of " The Fightin' Side of Me")
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To: randog
IOW I felt that I was dealing with something I really shouldn’t be dealing with. Tossed the rods (bent coat hangers) and never did it again.

Too late. You are a devil's minion now. (just kidding)
42 posted on 09/17/2012 12:51:30 PM PDT by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: Theoria
I'm not sure if you are making a joke or being serious, but either way you have drifted over into blasphemy.

“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead" (Deuteronomy 18:9-11).

Divining with rods is a form of divination. And, you can see what the Bible lumps that in with.

There is zero scientific evidence that there is any physical mechanism behind divining. So, if there isn't a physical mechanism, then what kind of mechanism makes divining work? The only possible type left is a supernatural mechanism.

In other words, "if" divining works (and I put if in quotes, because I personally believe most people involved in this are simply frauds), then the only reason it works is because there is a supernatural cause--a spirit--moving the rods. But, since the Bible forbids this, we know the spirit moving this isn't God or a holy angel. That leaves only one option: a fallen angel (a demon, the devil, whatever you want to call it).

This is why the Bible condemns divination, because when you get involved in it you are either (1) committing fraud, or (2) teaming up with a demonic spirit (perhaps unknowingly, but still teaming up).

43 posted on 09/17/2012 12:52:16 PM PDT by Brookhaven (The Democratic Party has become the Beclowning Party)
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To: Renfield

(NOTE: It also works as a Gaydar.)

44 posted on 09/17/2012 12:52:52 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: ZX12R

LOL!! That might be true had I not turned to Christ and taken the plunge 3+ years ago...8)


45 posted on 09/17/2012 12:54:10 PM PDT by randog (Tap into America!)
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To: randog
I felt that I was dealing with something I really shouldn’t be dealing with...

The pastor that I heard the story from was adamant that when encountering something uncanny it is unsafe to assume that it is wholesome. Hence his "testing of the spirits." Having witnessed several forms of witching, I will verify that it can be uncanny. Whether or not it is never wholesome I cannot say, but you won't catch me doing it.

46 posted on 09/17/2012 1:01:44 PM PDT by jboot (This isn't your father's America. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.)
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To: steve86

The Biblical passage quoted about Moses no more supports dowsing than the passage saying “David loved Jonathan” supports homosexuality. Both are taken out of context for someone’s worldly purpose and are gross distortions of scripture.


47 posted on 09/17/2012 1:01:57 PM PDT by Brookhaven (The Democratic Party has become the Beclowning Party)
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To: Renfield

48 posted on 09/17/2012 1:03:29 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: Talisker

Yes, well put.


49 posted on 09/17/2012 1:03:57 PM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: matt1234

Superstition like that amazes me, and not in the way you wish. Maybe instead, you could explain to me why that method is not in widespread use by most power companies and underground locators?


50 posted on 09/17/2012 1:05:57 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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