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A little note on that 47% that pays no taxes... (vanity)

Posted on 09/18/2012 7:58:30 PM PDT by MacMattico

I volunteer in a place where many of those "47 percenters" come in for various aid, services, etc. I'd say between 5 and 10 percent of those that show up really are in need, which can really get to me because the other 90% are a bunch of freeloaders. But it's that 10% that keeps me going back. We offer refreshments at this site, and it's amazing that the 10% in need can get up and pour their own juice or lemon aid, and say thank you, but the 90% want it hand delivered!

Anyway, there is a whole segment of the 47% that pay no taxes that THINK they pay to much in taxes! Maybe they won't vote Romney, but maybe they won't vote at all. I dealt with one woman, a waitress (not putting waitresses down in any way) who is furious with the amount of tax she has to pay. She pays none! I even helped her with her taxes so I've seen the raw numbers! All she sees is that taxes are taken out of her check weekly. But if she could do simple arithmetic she would realize she gets all that back and more at tax time, and in addition gets the Earned Income Credit, child tax credit so she probably gets most if not all of any other taxes she paid back including sales and property taxes. Every February she and her boyfriend take a 10-day cruise on our dime. But she THINKS the government rips her off big time. This is not an isolated case. So saying Romney has no chance at 47% of the electorate may not be true. I couldn't estimate a number, because there are other factors, but many in this group don't understand taxation and to be blunt because of their stupidity may not side with Obama. Some are not stupid, but think things should be fair across the board. These people I enjoy volunteering my time for.

TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: obama; romney; taxes
I'd say it's more like 30-35% Romney has no chance with, but that number increases his odds, at least.
1 posted on 09/18/2012 7:58:34 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

The problem is the segment of the 47% that votes multiple times, and believe they have a civil right to do so.

2 posted on 09/18/2012 8:06:04 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: MacMattico
Oh, and you've also got your group that thinks Obama will cut their taxes even more when they already pay zero. More food stamps and HUD assistance, I guess. Obama is basically paying people to vote for him, oldest trick in the book.
3 posted on 09/18/2012 8:08:58 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico
You are assuming that Romney does not know that a full 32% of the stated 47% of non-taxpayers are cheaters, liars and amoral.

He knows. So do I. And so, apparently do you.

He stated it accurately, so did I, and so did you.

I don't see anything controvercial about the truth. Do you?

4 posted on 09/18/2012 8:09:59 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: MacMattico

It depends what the meaning of TAX is.

5 posted on 09/18/2012 8:10:59 PM PDT by Domangart
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To: MacMattico
Note - Romney did not say that the 47% who pay no tax are the same 47% who are going to vote for Obama no matter what.

His comment was the 47%, locked-in Obama vote includes various voter SEGMENTS, and then he went on to list those sub-groups, one of which is SOME of the people who pay no tax.

By no means was he saying that 100% of each sub-group was a locked-in vote for Obama, or making any linkage (as some have inferred) between low-income workder who pay no tax and those who live off the government dole. He was just saying that collectively, he estimated the number of those locked in for Obama to be 47% (too high, I believe), and that is going to make his task difficult (and therefore, his rich supporters should fork over more dough).
6 posted on 09/18/2012 8:12:21 PM PDT by zencycler
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To: MacMattico

For our last 2 1040s, We paid No tax & got all our withholding back.

That doesn’t make us ObamaBOTS.

7 posted on 09/18/2012 8:19:05 PM PDT by PizzaDriver ( on)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I don't doubt that. The place I volunteer at is in the basement of a church, (Oh no!) and groups know services are provided to the poor there. Lunch is provided. They come in with voter registration cards and I tell them I know these people and have kept a list, they're all registered. If I didn't basically kick them out they'd be signing them up again under who knows what name. And they probably do at other places these people go to.
8 posted on 09/18/2012 8:22:23 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: sarasmom

Not at all. I’m just saying it’s being put out there, the 47% number, like it’s over for Romney. I don’t think it is.

9 posted on 09/18/2012 8:26:34 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

I’m a 47 percenter, and I’m voting for Romney because I desperately want to move up and get out of that club. Interesting, before Obama became President, it was 30 percenters.

10 posted on 09/18/2012 8:27:31 PM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Obama does not have the work ethic to be Anti-Christ.)
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To: MacMattico

I wonder what is the number of our servicemen and women in combat zones that are included in the total of 47%...

11 posted on 09/18/2012 8:34:41 PM PDT by montanajoe (Blame Flame Shame or Beg I won't vote for R/R)
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To: zencycler; PizzaDriver

I agree with both of you. But the MSM is trying to, in my opinion, assert Romney can’t win any of this 47% group and by doing this they can suppress voter turnout and paint Romney as only caring for the rich, “his people”.

12 posted on 09/18/2012 8:34:46 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

I heard Colmes on FOX tonight say that people never receive welfare for more than a year or two before they go back to work. Boy. Is that guy misinformed. He’s living in a Fantasyland.

13 posted on 09/18/2012 8:48:20 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The United States of America apologizing to knuckledragging, cavedwelling Neandethals. Whodda thunk!)
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To: MacMattico

I’m on SSDI and I dislike Obama, but I feel trapped now. With the huge swelling in SSDI claims and approvals I’m afraid I’m going to get caught up in a backlash no matter who’s elected.

Whoever said that only 10% of the claims (for any assistance program) are legitimate, well that number is way to low. My estimation are about 55% legitimate and 45% are on the other side of legitimate. Of those, I guess that 70% or more are at the state level rather than the federal level.

One of the disadvantages that face conservatives is that these programs are for the most part populated by ready made constituents for the liberals. So the liberals do peddle these. Obama’s whole plan for amnesty for illegals is to keep building that constituency. The recent upswing in SSDI is also to build on and maintain that constituency, but it’s tougher to get approved for SSDI — it requires lawyers and doctor’s — at least when I applied.

14 posted on 09/18/2012 8:53:32 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: MuttTheHoople

Bravo! And good for you. I’ve been there as well. Even for the few that really need public assistance, I tell them that the fewer people taking and the more contributing, the better for them and the longer before the inevitable time that TSHTF.

15 posted on 09/18/2012 8:55:02 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: MacMattico

My wife volunteers at a local food pantry. We farm ground around the building. While I was disking ground, I watched for two hours as a parade of able bodied “needy” folks streamed in driving late model cars, big 4 x 4 pickups...most smoking cigs and sporting tattoos.

It was amazing watching the 60-80 year old male volunteers carting groceries out in bags for these 20-30 y/ losers who stood by and watched their free stuff being loaded up.

I believe we are outnumbered at the polls....between these folks and the Federal, state and local union workers... it’s over. We’re screwed.

16 posted on 09/18/2012 9:01:58 PM PDT by So_ILFarmer
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To: MacMattico
The Romney video has been played all night on TV. I think it's a hoot that the MSM hasn't figured it helps Mitt with those who should be his base and it plays well to independents.

IMO, only the Libs would think this hurts.

17 posted on 09/18/2012 9:10:13 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
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To: MacMattico

The PRODUCERS are NOT going to be happy about this...and the “takers” (abusers, or actually needy) really better hope there are MORE all crashes...

18 posted on 09/18/2012 9:27:33 PM PDT by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: PizzaDriver

You should be paying some income tax. Everyone should quite frankly.

19 posted on 09/18/2012 9:36:40 PM PDT by rudabaga
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To: PizzaDriver

my last 4 1040s showed a loss. I paid no federal tax.

I WON’T be voting Obama. Next year I’d like to turn in a 1040 that said I made some money :)

20 posted on 09/18/2012 10:08:23 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: Usagi_yo

you must have got your SSDI approved long ago.

Our lawyer said it’s almost automatic for people running out of their 99 weeks to put in a app saying they can’t go back to work for some hard to prove mental problem. They are currently turning away 95% of the people that come to them for “help” because after a quick run through of the case they know they will never win. Since the lawyers are probably very good at figuring out who can and can’t pass the SS test, I suspect 95% is very close to the actual number of BS claims filed.

It’s one of the reasons my physically disabled wife keeps getting turned down doctors note after doctors notes. One even says “Cableguymn’s wife CAN NOT RETURN TO THE WORKFORCE” They denied that appeal too.

We are still waiting to see the judge. Been about 1.5 years now.

it’s not often you can get a doctor to be that specific in a letter.

21 posted on 09/18/2012 10:13:54 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: rudabaga

damn straight. And if your on welfare, no vote for you.

Once in the wagon they realize they can vote for more goodies, it’s just a matter of time before there are more in the wagon than pulling it.

I think we are at that tipping point now.

22 posted on 09/18/2012 10:16:00 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: cableguymn

I agree with that. Anyone sucking off the government teat should not be permitted a vote.

23 posted on 09/18/2012 10:39:33 PM PDT by rudabaga
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To: FlingWingFlyer; Usagi_yo; MuttTheHoople; PizzaDriver
It's a tough and very gray area; at root, to be conservative includes being both egalitarian and compassionate.
But the narrative does not show that.

If I am even somewhat successful, or just doing OK, I'm self-obliged to give a hand to someone who is struggling to join me - race/origins, handicaps, likability, level of education, or good looks should not be a factor; that's what we were taught was "right" all those years ago.

I am not obliged to give a hand up to the neer-do-wells and hangers on who populate much of the Socialist ranks...but I am at core a Christian and I cannot wish them misery.

So the dilemma is four fold (not two as in "horns of"):
How to identify those who legitimately deserve assistance.
How to identify the others.
How to improve those who might be improved.
And, what to do with the rest.

That's a lesson learned from five years of trying to help those who could benefit while not insulting those who would only handicap the candidates.
It's a lesson you try to apply daily even when it isn't part of your formal portfolio.

Damn few people see it as a part of being "conservative".
Much like damn few realize that "conservative" does not automatically mean "rich":
I hope that (by my age) each of you have made it.

OH, yeah, Colmes' ignorant/elitist comments on Fox;
Allan/Skeletor, you can contact me via FR and I'll gladly give you a meet and greet tour of Los Angeles, much like I once did as a Vietnam veteran's AA advocate, then we can discuss your asinine "...year or two before they go back to work" comment.

24 posted on 09/18/2012 10:42:15 PM PDT by norton
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To: cableguymn

I chose SSDI because it was the lesser of two bad thing, drop dead at work, live longer and drop dead at home.

I will tell you that most of your doctors will make you feel like you’re a malingerer and a cheat, they’ll scoff at you and tell you they have people on dialysis, or awaiting transplants who still work. It took lawyers to convince the Doctors they weren’t doing their job.

I will also tell you it’s no easy thing being out on disability. I have private plan that supplements my income above and beyond SSDI to my 65% cap of my salary at the time I became disabled, and while SSDI encourages people to work part time very easy type jobs with no reduction in benefits, the private plans prohibit you from even doing volunteer work.

Then while on disability, you do feel guilty, bored, worthless, and the anxiety builds up. You want to jump back in to the labor force, but you know you’ll only last a few months, then you become afraid that it’s going to be taken away from you and you’ll end up dead on Skid Row.

25 posted on 09/18/2012 11:27:03 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: rudabaga

I agree - able-bodied welfare recipients should not get a vote. Conflict of interest.

Prisoners should not get a vote either, until they’ve done their time.

I would like to be a benevolent dictator for about 10 years.

26 posted on 09/19/2012 1:36:24 AM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: Usagi_yo
You could be considered a malingerer and a cheat. If you can post on the Internet, you can work a job. Plenty of jobs that consists of entering data into a computer. I bet you have a phone you can use. Plenty of jobs require just using a phone and a computer. My sister works for Blue Cross/Blue Shield. All she does is use a computer and a phone all day. Makes in excess of $60k/year. Maybe it doesn't pay as much as your previous job, but why should I support you. Nothing guarantees you a great wage to live off of. I am almost totally deaf, wear hearing aids, and still have to read lips to communicate. My right hand does not work at all from an injury. I became left handed. I couldn't do the job I had worked most of my life at. I found a new job I could do. No where near as much money. I refuse to be disabled. There is work you can do. No one owes you a living to which you feel accustomed to.
27 posted on 09/19/2012 1:45:37 AM PDT by lynn4303
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To: Usagi_yo

My son got permanent SSI within 4 weeks of the first time he applied and without a lawyer. Why was it so easy for him? He is truly disabled. All it required was putting the bazillion doctors and hospitalizations on the application with the dates to facilitate SS being able to check. Lawyer threats were completely unnecessary.

People on disability that CAN work in some manner, but still draw it give those that do need it a bad name.

BTW, AFTER our business got off the ground and we were able to afford his insurance again, he took himself off SSI. We feel that it is OUR responsibility to care for our son as long as we can. We are very grateful the government was there to TEMPORARILY help us with him while we were laid off.

28 posted on 09/19/2012 2:38:28 AM PDT by publana (Beware the olive branch extended by a Dem for it disguises a clenched fist.)
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To: cableguymn

I know a lawyer acquaintance whose firm dealt with a lot of personal injury claims. His firm was convinced 90% of the people claiming injury benefits were fakers. I have no way of knowing if that’s true or not, but after working for about forty years (I’m now retired), I knew more than a few people who faked their problems to the max.

29 posted on 09/19/2012 3:16:14 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: driftless2
It's amazing how many people can be too disabled to work, but yet still pretty do everything they did before for personal enjoyment. It's also amazing, and I'm sure not connected, how many people file for disability as their unemployment runs out.

I have a sister-in-law. She is only child and will inherit $36 mil when her father dies. She worked for him her whole life (42 now). He sold the business to retire and suddenly she could not work when new ownership required her to. Previously her job, while working for dad,was a go to work at 10a, lunch with mom, and shop all afternoon. She immediately developed Fibromyalgia so bad she could not hold her arms up. Filed for disability. Was turned down. Hired a lawyer, was turned down 3 more times. Last time the ortho person did not show up to the hearing to contest her disability, so the judge found in her favor. Now she gets Medicare, $1300/month for the rest of her life, and a lump sum of $48000. She still posts her crocheting and painting on Facebook. Does arts and crafts all day. Remember, she cannot hold arm up for 1 minute without horrible pain. And this setup will never go away. Once the judge decrees, it will never be reversed.

30 posted on 09/19/2012 3:35:46 AM PDT by lynn4303
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To: lynn4303

Well, you know hardly anything about me, so you’re just a blow hard.

But you’re right, nobody owes me, because I payed into SSI for 35 years, and I bought an additional disability insurance plan that I payed premiums on for 20+ years. I pay state, federal, medicare, and social security on that income.

I probably still pay more taxes than 47% of Americans. I might even pay more than you do if your income is only 60k a year.

The trade off is, I probably won’t reach 65.

It’s people like you that give conservatives a bad name, namely ignorant.

31 posted on 09/19/2012 8:11:23 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: lynn4303

The 48k lump sum payout is retroactive SSDI from the date of first filing.

And no, it didn’t take lawyers to strong arm my doctors, it took lawyers to explain the law to them.

32 posted on 09/19/2012 8:18:30 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

I’m betting you get nowhere near paying federal income taxes. And I agree we shouldn’t be paying to take care of you forever. Everyone pays into SS. That’s no reason to make us take care of you when you suck way more out than you paid in. It’s your and your family’s responsibility. I’m shocked at all these freepers who are exactly the problem they espouse to oppose.

33 posted on 09/19/2012 9:50:10 AM PDT by rudabaga
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To: rudabaga

More air.

Dude, at 65% (SSDI+private plan) and I’m still about 2/3 the way to the max wage base — the wage where you stop paying SSI tax. My private plan pays 2x what SSDI pays, and since I don’t have an employer I pay both ends. Thats 6.2% twice. Which comes to 2/5ths of what SSDI pays me. That’s just SSI, I still pay federal and state income tax on my total income.

So all taxes total, I pay just about what I get from SSDI at the 28% tax bracket.

And the only reason why I’m on SSDI is that the private plan requires me to be eligible for SSDI benefits.

So tell me again how you’re subsidizing me?

34 posted on 09/19/2012 10:38:45 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

If you are collecting SSDI and making enough income to owe the federal government tax, then you must be committing fraud. In 2012, the individual income limit for SSI is $698 per month, and the asset limit is $2,000.

35 posted on 09/19/2012 11:19:28 AM PDT by rudabaga
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To: rudabaga

I’ll let my lawyer know that rudabaga from freerepublic thinks I’m scamming SS.

Thanks for playing the “how stupid can you be” game. You’re the current leader of the day.

36 posted on 09/19/2012 11:54:06 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: rudabaga

.... “No Limits on Unearned Income

While a disabled (nonblind) person applying for or receiving SSDI cannot earn more than $1,010 per month by working, a person collecting SSDI can have any amount of income from investments, interest, or a spouse’s income.”

And not mentioned but qualifying as unearned income ... 3rd party disability plans.

And BTW, SSI is not SSDI.

37 posted on 09/19/2012 12:09:52 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

How nice for you to have so much unearned income that you owe federal income tax and yet will still collect ssdi for the rest of your life. And you think I am not now or won’t be subsidizing you? Yeah right. Ok I’m going to have to end this because I have work to do. I have to keep paying you to sit here on your butt pontificating on the Internet because you simply cannot do a thing for work, make so much money you owe the federal government and must collect your government check. forever.

38 posted on 09/19/2012 12:25:14 PM PDT by rudabaga
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To: rudabaga


39 posted on 09/19/2012 12:39:29 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

I hope you did not misunderstand me. I am not faulting you at all. You sound like someone who should be getting it. We are lucky, the wife has a couple of doctors on her side. It’s really rare for them to make a statement with no wiggle room. You’ll get “it’s my opinion that Cableguymn’s wife won’t be returning to work in the near future” out of most any of them. But to get a “she won’t be working again. ever” type statement out of them is rare.

my wife feels the same way you do, on days shes doing alright she feels she should be doing something to get the bills paid. For about 10 months I really had money troubles. I had to sell my business and shift in to something else to keep up with the bills.

Turns out that shift really paid off for me. Like someone was watching over us.

Had that not happened we’d be living with family trying to get by while the gears of the SS office turn so slow you wonder if they are moving at all.

40 posted on 09/19/2012 1:36:13 PM PDT by cableguymn (peace through strangth. if they don't like you at least they will fear you.)
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To: lynn4303

Dad should spend all that money or give it to someone who won’t piss it away.

She’ll learn quick.

41 posted on 09/19/2012 1:39:24 PM PDT by cableguymn (peace through strangth. if they don't like you at least they will fear you.)
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To: rudabaga

That’s no reason to make us take care of you when you suck way more out than you paid in.

Umm.. SS was sold to us as “insurance” people buy “insurance” for just what your complaining about. I insure my house in case something destroys it. I’ll never pay in premiums what it costs the insurance company to replace it.

So before you go off on someone, think about it. Do you buy insurance on your home or cars thinking the insurance company will only pay up to the amount you paid them? Insurance companies spread the risk out over ALL their policy holders. Charging more or less depending on what your insuring and where it is.

Disability insurance is you betting you will become disabled and the insurance company (in this case Social security) is betting you won’t.

42 posted on 09/19/2012 1:44:05 PM PDT by cableguymn (peace through strangth. if they don't like you at least they will fear you.)
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To: cableguymn

I had no problem with your post. I commiserate with you. It’s tough when others think you’re either a vegetable or you can work. The system is rigged to deny deny deny and in a way that’s good, doctors want to deny deny deny because it’s known that many people with real but ambulatory disabilities put out on disability suffer from depression and anxiety which lead to quicker deterioration if you don’t find ways to adapt.

Keep appealing as when they finally approve you, you receive retroactive benefits in lump sum from the date of first filing, and the lawyer fees are capped at like $4500 so don’t be afraid to get a lawyer involved.

43 posted on 09/19/2012 9:53:10 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Usagi_yo

Started with a lawyer. In MN I think they are capped at 6000. We will keep plugging along.

44 posted on 09/20/2012 5:43:27 PM PDT by cableguymn (peace through strength. if they don't like you at least they will fear you.)
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