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Catholics, moving to the right?

Posted on 09/23/2012 1:43:05 PM PDT by Vinylly

Seattle, WA is extreamly liberal, think -Boston liberal. Yesterday St. Benidicts in the Wallingford community was celebrating their annual 'Borkwurst' Festival to raise money for their school. I wore a 2 1/2"X 3 1/2" pen I made up on my computor that said: 'ROMNEY: God, Freedom, and Prosperity. Obama: Socialism, Slavery, and $20 TRILLION Debt.' As I walked around the playground with our family, I recieved quite a few requests to take a picture of my sign with their i-pods. One girl said she wanted to send the pic. to her dad to prove that not everybody in Wallingford was a Communist. I don't know if this says anything about the election coming up, but, don't Catholics generally vote d'RAT? Is there a change of attitude going on here? I was quite surprised how well my little slogan went over with this Catholic community.


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: catholicvote; homosexualagenda; prolifevote; vanity; wa2012

1 posted on 09/23/2012 1:43:07 PM PDT by Vinylly
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To: Vinylly

I think it’s more of a case of the further left the Dems have moved post-JFK, many(not all but many) Roman Catholics are learning it is not in their best interest to continue voting for his party.


2 posted on 09/23/2012 1:49:25 PM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: Vinylly

It’s about time; ethnic Catholics missed the boat for the past 40 years when the leftists took control of the democrat party back in ‘72, I guess they either were asleep at the switch, fellow travelers ignoring the basic edicts of their faith (pro-life, pro-marriage, etc.) or were praying for a miracle that the party would go back to it’s earlier roots, representing the common man and union worker. Oh well, never too late, but we’re at the end of the line, and it finally took the Church to file lawsuits to finally protect their rights after looking the other way for four decades. Give them 12 recitations of the Rosary as part of their penance and vote for Romney/Ryan. Now get on board and pay attention. Sheesh.


3 posted on 09/23/2012 1:51:13 PM PDT by john drake
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To: Vinylly

I think the damage the contraceptive mandate did to Obama with Catholic voters is underestimated by political and media liberals. It was in bulletins and priests were speaking about it in church. The liberals may be very surprised on election night, as stunned as they were in 2004 when “values” were found to be the number one issue. Also, I think the seeds planted in this country by Popes Benedict XVI and John Paul II on their visits here may be starting to sprout.


4 posted on 09/23/2012 1:58:31 PM PDT by MDLION ("Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: Vinylly

Abortion...
..


5 posted on 09/23/2012 1:59:04 PM PDT by Red Badger (Anyone who thinks wisdom comes with age is either too young or too stupid to know the difference....)
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Berlin - September 23, 2012. After Church Event, Face Paint/Male Choir
6 posted on 09/23/2012 2:07:19 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Vinylly

I have to ask. What is Borkwurst?


7 posted on 09/23/2012 2:07:27 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: Vinylly
Let me summarize the letter from the Bishop that was read at this morning's Mass in the diocese of St. Augustine.

“Vote, register to vote (and here's how). I will not tell you who to vote for, BUT you must remember that certain issues are not acceptable and not negotiable to Catholics and you stand accountable to God on this. Those issues are:
1. Life is sacred before birth, throughout life, and until natural death. Euthanasia is evil. You cannot vote for what is evil, or for those who support it.
2. The religious freedom of all people to refuse to pay for abortion and forms of birth control that may cause an abortion must be defended.
3. The definition of marriage is defined by natural law and the word of God to be solely between a man and a woman.

I'm not sure that North Eastern Priests/Bishops have the stones to say this, but it was said clearly and unequivocally at Mass today. When the letter was finished, the congregation applauded.

Now I'd like to here from some of you in the North East, as my experience while attending Mass there in the summer has been a severe case of Catholic-lite.

8 posted on 09/23/2012 2:38:39 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Vinylly
Let me summarize the letter from the Bishop that was read at this morning's Mass in the diocese of St. Augustine.

“Vote, register to vote (and here's how). I will not tell you who to vote for, BUT you must remember that certain issues are not acceptable and not negotiable to Catholics and you stand accountable to God on this. Those issues are:
1. Life is sacred before birth, throughout life, and until natural death. Euthanasia is evil. You cannot vote for what is evil, or for those who support it.
2. The religious freedom of all people to refuse to pay for abortion and forms of birth control that may cause an abortion must be defended.
3. The definition of marriage is defined by natural law and the word of God to be solely between a man and a woman.

I'm not sure that North Eastern Priests/Bishops have the stones to say this, but it was said clearly and unequivocally at Mass today. When the letter was finished, the congregation applauded.

Now I'd like to here from some of you in the North East, as my experience while attending Mass there in the summer has been a severe case of Catholic-lite.

9 posted on 09/23/2012 2:38:52 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: MDLION
I think the seeds planted in this country by Popes Benedict XVI and John Paul II on their visits here may be starting to sprout.

That was clear with the election of Cardinal Dolan to be head of the USCCB. He wasn't even on the BALLOT at first, but the Bishops most recently elevated by John Paul II and Benedict XVI were instrumental in putting Dolan in over the liberal Bishop who many expected to win.

10 posted on 09/23/2012 2:46:26 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Vinylly

In recent decades white Catholics have been moving some toward republicans, but this shift is too little, too late, because those white Catholics are rapidly being replaced with Hispanic Catholics, just as the older white Catholics are starting to see the light.

As bad as it is, people don’t realize that this is the best period of Catholic voting in our history, but this small window is already disappearing, and will quickly return to the normal Catholic vote.

California is the American future.


11 posted on 09/23/2012 3:07:44 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: john drake
As a Catholic, I can tell you that voting for a pro-abortion candidate when there is a choice not to is in direct disobedience to Church teaching. Obviously, there are too many people who call themselves Catholic who should not.

Then again, there are too many people who call themselves Americans who should not.

12 posted on 09/23/2012 3:48:24 PM PDT by Barnacle (Is treason a high crime or misdemeanor?)
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To: Vinylly; PJBankard; scottjewell; ebb tide; Sirius Lee; lilycicero; MaryLou1; glock rocks; JPG; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


13 posted on 09/23/2012 3:53:25 PM PDT by narses
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To: Vinylly

The majority of Catholics in America came from minority ethnic groups—Irish, Italian, Polish, and so on. They were mostly discriminated against in the earlier years, and mostly working class. They identified with the Democrat Party as the party of the workers.

That began to change with Roe v. Wade. As the abortion issue became more and more identified with Democrats, many Catholics moved over to the Republican party, until it became roughly 50-50, instead of 70-30 or whatever it was before.

Regretably, in that same time period the Church in America began to lose its way, with dissident voices and too many dissident bishops. Otherwise, the movement from Democrat to Republican would have been more decisive.

I think some Catholics were fooled into voting for Obama because of social justice issues, and because they didn’t know how extremely pro-abortion he was. How would they? The press didn’t tell them, and Juan McCain stupidly refused to make an issue of it.

A lot of them still don’t really understand the problem, but I think the word is spreading. FWIW, I haven’t heard a single word from the pulpit of our parish on Obama’s extreme baby-killing and gay marriage positions, or his plans to violate religious liberty. There has been a lot of words spreading around the web, but not everyone is aware of that.

Anyway, I think fewer Catholics will vote for Obama this time around. And if the bishops and pastors would only do their job (IRS to the contrary not withstanding), even fewer would vote for Obama.


14 posted on 09/23/2012 4:15:19 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SampleMan

I love our bishop here in St Augustine! He’s been really bold on this, and I plan to go to the overnight Adoration in the Blessed Sacrament chapel at the Cathedral.

For those of you who don’t know, our bishop (Bp Felipe Estevez) got out of Cuba as a teenager with a Catholic refugee program called Operation Pedro Pan, and was brought up by a family in Indiana until he went to seminary.

He knows first-hand what happens when government attacks.


15 posted on 09/23/2012 4:24:15 PM PDT by livius
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To: Vinylly

You made a pen on your computor?


16 posted on 09/23/2012 4:31:26 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: ansel12
California is the American future.

Catholicism is the American future. Whether that future is good or not so good depends on American Catholics, both laity and clergy.

17 posted on 09/23/2012 5:17:15 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: ansel12

You need to stop omitting the caveat “in my unlearned opinion” from your posts.


18 posted on 09/23/2012 6:34:44 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: annalex

I wouldn’t say that, while immigration maintains the Catholic percentage of the population and makes up for the whites leaving Catholicism, that is all that it does, it doesn’t increase the numbers, and any modest immigration reform could slow even that.


19 posted on 09/23/2012 6:43:46 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Yes, but these are merely numbers. What counts is the leadership and above all leadership of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Apostles were twelve in number, and look...

The operative illusion here is that in a democracy demographics decide. In fact, the elite decides. Today, we have the secularist-agnostic media and education elite putting the Democrats on top. They do so in every market: in Hispanic Southwest and in Anglo-Saxon Northeast, and even in the largely white long-ancestry Midwest we struggle to elect people who represent our values, because -- not of the Hispanics, however they back-fill the white working class of old as Democratic fodder, -- but because of the semi-educated, well-spoken, secure in their liberal bias, irreligious, white middle class; they are the transmission belt of liberal ideas into the American voting public. They are the ones who perpetuate the caricature of a conservative being an illiterate racist who can't compete for high-tech jobs with the Hindus, or a religious fanatic straight from the Middle Ages who thinks the earth is flat, or a big guy with a tiny penis driving an SUV because he can't control his woman anymore.

Now, that is what Protestant White America produced: these faithless wimps sitting in our schools and regulatory agencies are the American ruling class and they are product of American Protestantism. Conservative Protestantism exists, but it has nothing to propose that does nor further reinforce the liberal stereotype; it in fact cannot see itself straight out of the three-stick forest of Protestant theology.

Where is Pat Robertson's "invisible army" of 1988? Right, same place as in 1988, caricature fodder. Protestantism does not have a credible Protestant elite to move the numbers. It presently serves as a giant denominational pump that consumes Catholic weaklings and produces well-meaning agnostics, America's other growing religious group besides Islam.

The Catholic Church has its share of problems, mostly self-inflicted, but we are the force of intellectual superiority because we operate in the realm of truth. The numbers will come along, -- certainly not this election cycle and maybe not a few more. But we are the force ascendant. Observe, by the way, the Left knows who is going to read to them their last rites. No one tries to slander, discredit, ridicule, lie about, recruit to the cause, intimidate, and harass with lawsuits the American Protestants, because no one is afraid of them any more. It is the Catholic Church that is the target of the Left, and we like it that way.

[12] ...they will lay their hands upon you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, dragging you before kings and governors, for my name's sake. [13] And it shall happen unto you for a testimony. [14] Lay it up therefore into your hearts, not to meditate before how you shall answer: [15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to resist and gainsay.

[16] And you shall be betrayed by your parents and brethren, and kinsmen and friends; and some of you they will put to death. [17] And you shall be hated by all men for my name's sake. [18] But a hair of your head shall not perish. [19] In your patience you shall possess your souls. (Luke 21)


20 posted on 09/23/2012 8:45:54 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
Protestants vote conservative.

Catholics, and atheists vote liberal, it is the fact of American political life.

It is truly bizarre to blame liberal victories on the group that always votes against them.

What you call merely "numbers" are the facts. If you don't like liberal politics,then vote against the democrats, if you do, then vote for them, how do Catholics vote? How have Catholics voted always, with the exception of 6 times?

21 posted on 09/23/2012 8:54:37 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: SampleMan
When the letter was finished, the congregation applauded.

Same response from my Parish.

22 posted on 09/24/2012 5:04:05 AM PDT by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: ansel12

Catholic vote with a slight bias toward the liberals and Protestant vote with a slight bias toward the conservatives. But except for the Kennedy disaster. American Presidents have been all Protestants and the Protestant electorate is much larger, so the (for example) 45% Protestants that vote liberal are a bigger problem than 55% Catholics: they are more people.

Besides the country was set up by the Protestants. They therefore built in the liberal bias into the system. They wrote the Constitution; they voted for Protestant Roosevelt to create the New Deal and they voted for Protestant Johnson to cement the Great Society, America’s crippling welfare system. These two defections (over the course of three election cycles) of the Protestant electorate to the left were critical in the liberal slide of the 20th century. Now they should own the outcomes of their bad theology and unworkable social theories.

If you want to move the Catholic Church to the left, come join her. There is nothing that can possibly endear you to the Luther’s and Calvin’s theological fables, and you’ll be a part of true spiritual awakening of America rather than ones watching from the sidelines and tsk-tsking over things past.


23 posted on 09/24/2012 5:47:04 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

You seem to have an agenda that isn’t conservative, a sort of tribal identity that trumps conservative politics, even an insulting view of America as getting better as it becomes leftist and foreign, as long as it is absorbed by Rome.

Judging by a 150 years of Catholic voting, that agenda explains why Catholics are a liberal voting block and why they are the power base of the left, as we have seen in California.

Since FR is a political site, you really should think more like a conservative, and less like someone who embraces the left as long as it can lead to America becoming Catholic.


24 posted on 09/24/2012 9:18:48 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: Vinylly
2 1/2"X 3 1/2" pen

A two and a half inch by three and a half inch pen? And people actually noticed it?

25 posted on 09/24/2012 10:43:32 AM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: ansel12

I don’t need you to tell me how to think, especially since you don’t seem to understand my posts. Where, for example, did you see any “tribal identity” in my posts or that I “embraced the left”?

I simply look forward rather than backward. I am, after all, both American and Catholic, and Catholic America will do just fine.


26 posted on 09/24/2012 5:06:43 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
You sound like a foreigner that would be happy for the original America to disappear, and for it to turn into a European like Catholic nation.

I have seen that from some tribal like Catholics, they see 1776 America as a Protestant curse of freedom and individuality, that needs to be fixed by being conquered and Europeanized, by Catholicism.

This has been the general agenda that immigration has brought to America since Catholic immigration started in the 1840s. Liberalism, unionism, and the usual problems of Europe. Today the hope for the left is that Catholic immigration will make the United States, a totally owned property of the Democrat party.

Here is the effect it has had on California.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Look at how Catholic immigration affects the vote in California, and this was in an election where life issues dominated.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

27 posted on 09/24/2012 5:45:11 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: iowamark

It sounds like getting Borked, but in the extreme. If I am correct, the clearest example to-date would be Clarence Thomas.


28 posted on 09/24/2012 6:13:29 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: MDLION

Our priest received a standing ovation when he discussed having to disobey the government in regards to religious freedom. Everyone knew what he was discussing and we were on our feet in the middle of the sermon.

Hopefully obimbo stepped in it big time. Or as slow joe says, “this is a big fxxxing deal”.


29 posted on 09/24/2012 6:31:42 PM PDT by I_be_tc
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To: ansel12

Do you need any help comprehending my earlier posts regarding the value of statistics and projecting the future from them?

Protestant America did very well in the first 100 years. I would be happy if it returned to these practices; however the New Deal and the Great Society, two projects invented and put through by Protestants, foreclosed on the possibility. That is the chief failure of American Protestantism, again, as I explained before. There are others. For example, the failure to end slavery other than though the Civil War would not be possible under a Catholic leadership; the failure to end abortion today is rooted in Protestant inability to provide moral leadership.

To preserve individual freedom a nation must have an anthropological view that is correct. Protestant view is not correct: for example, it separates works from faith and has a legalistic view on the Holy Scripture; this is why we as a nation could not protect either our borders or our freedom. We therefore are looking at an historical shift away from the Calvinist value set that dominated the past two centuries and toward a more Catholic value set. You mentioned Europe, but I don’t think you did so other than as a cliche; the reality is that Europe, it seems to me, has lost its ability for renewal, and, as happened many times before, will have to rely on American leadership in these matters. If you need me to elaborate on this or on anything else you missed in my earlier posts, I’ll be happy to.


30 posted on 09/24/2012 6:47:30 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Actually Protestants voted against Roosevelt in 1940 and 1944, and against Truman in 1948, against the dems in 1952, and 1956, and against JFK in 1960.

Three times they voted democrat, against all but six times for Catholics, and you think the anti-democrat voters are the problem?

If America voted like it’s original Protestant people, then we wouldn’t be in this situation, Catholics on the other hand almost always support the democrats, and while the Catholic percentage of the population won’t grow, the Catholic vote will be moving even farther left than it is today.

I was right though, you want America ended and replaced as a European, Catholic nation, closer to what you came from.

That has been the Catholic influence since they started immigrating here.


31 posted on 09/24/2012 7:01:15 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

As I pointed out a few times, “Protestants voted Republican” or “Catholics voted Democrat” are meaningless propositions. Enough Protestants voted for the New Deal, and for the Great Society to outweigh the Catholics however it was that they voted, and yes, the immigrant vote tends to be Catholic and very bad for the country. I am very happy when the Protestants vote Protestant, but the problem is, they don’t seem to know how to win. Besides, again, as I pointed out before, America so far has been a Protestant project. If, for example, there is an engineer and he had built a plane that crashed on the ground, it happened not because the engineer wanted for the plane to crash or “voted” for it to crash; it is because his design did not prevent the plane from crashing. Again, if this thought is difficult to understand, — and since you keep repeating the statistical points it is a difficulty for you, — I will gladly explain again.

Also, your conjectures of what I am or want for America are factually false; however, quite regardless of what I am like personally (if it helps to clarify your thinking imagine you are talking to a Vatican’s secret agent and be done with my persona), would you please make a coherent comment that is not about past statistics which I never disputed, or about the harmfulness of immigration which I never disputed either?


32 posted on 09/24/2012 7:21:16 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Since America is still the greatest nation on earth, your whole premise is silly, and since you ignore that Protestant voted AGAINST Obama while Catholics voted for him, you seem unreachable with reason.

America’s problem is immigration, as this thread reveals.

As far as choosing to ignore facts, no thanks, that is how you got to your mind set, ignoring facts and reality.


33 posted on 09/24/2012 7:31:47 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Vinylly

55-60% will vote for black Jesus


34 posted on 09/24/2012 7:38:36 PM PDT by demsux (Obama: THE job destroyer)
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To: ansel12
Please re-read my previous post regarding "Protestant voted AGAINST Obama while Catholics voted for him". America is still the greatest nation on earth ... America’s problem is immigration

Agree and agree, but I would add that America has more problems than immigration alone. Protestantism is a bigger problem.

35 posted on 09/24/2012 8:08:01 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

No, Protestantism is what created America, and made it possible.

Evangelical Protestantism is what holds it together, and keeps it going.

As a supposed conservative, you should have some awareness of voting and religion.


36 posted on 09/24/2012 8:16:42 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

That is true that Protestantism created America and it continues to be a largely positive force today, on the strength of it being a form of Christianity.

However, if presents a flawed picture of man and his freedom. It, for example, believes that a profession of faith, apart from the daily works in the company of God toward greater acceptance of Divine Grace, is sufficient to make man free. This is manifestly not true: man is in a state of struggle which necessitates, in order for him to be free, to become free from various passions such that surround the man economic and the man sexual. The result is the formal political freedom where virtuous choice is rarely made, and in fact, the prevailing political philosophy, contaminated by Calvinism, teaches that freedom definitionally includes the practice of vice. Very quickly such formal freedom is bracketed by the nanny state, which then begins to grow a dependent political client class of men incapable of freedom: the Romney’s 47 percent.

Another defect of Protestantism is the legalistic notion of the Bible combined with populist anti-clericalism, and divorced from the historical Christianity. If you are interested I will elaborate on that in my next post.

There is something good in Protestantism, simple because Protestantism still offers, howbeit meekly, Christ as a model. But where one compares Protestantism with Catholicism, one finds the distinctives of Protestantism big on slogans but short on actually nurturing free men.


37 posted on 09/24/2012 8:42:20 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

When you can get Catholics to quit supporting the party of abortion and evil and liberalism, then you can try your tribal spin again, until then, which by the way will never happen, your fantasy remains only your personal fantasy.


38 posted on 09/24/2012 10:12:54 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Yes, it will be good if even greater number of Catholics dropped their illogical support for the "party of abortion and evil and liberalism". However, on that score, I would invite the Protestants, if they truly reject abortion and liberalism, to make the GOP into a party that puts an end to abortion and liberalism in more places than just their platform. Every time the GOP gets to power they quickly forget all about being supposedly pro-life. Every time they have a real opportunity to win an election, they make room for someone without a clear pro-life record and hush down their pro-life rhetoric in order not to scare away the mythical "undecided voter"; in the meanwhile the voter who is already decided, and instructed by their religion to vote pro-life sees no credible pro-life candidate. Something similar occurs with liberalism: GOP does a lot of chest-beating about restoring capitalism in America, then they nominate "tax collectors for the welfare state": classic examples are Romney and his wobbly pro-life record (and, what should be clearly unacceptable to any Christian, Mormonism) and Dole with his career in the US Senate making tax deals. Every time the GOP nominates someone lately, the Tea Party has to fight not the Democrats but the GOP to get a true conservative in the race. That is the Protestant leadership in the GOP: cowards and weasels. If you want to attract a greater number of Catholics, become attractive.

Yes, I have personal opinions. I also argument them. If you don't agree with them, argue back; that is what the Free Republic is for.

39 posted on 09/25/2012 5:47:04 AM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

What you can’t escape with your anti-Americanism, is that Protestantism leads to conservatism, and Catholicism leads to liberalism, that is why the rewriting of our Immigration laws to import democrats, was such a deliberate strategy of the left, to gain power over America, Catholics=liberalism=the end of the original Americans of 1776.


40 posted on 09/25/2012 12:03:15 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

I don’t deal with sloganeers, sorry.


41 posted on 09/25/2012 5:01:41 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

I’m not fond of anti-American immigrants with hostile, internationalist goals.


42 posted on 09/25/2012 5:21:03 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

Neither am I; I do however, also dislike people with reading comprehension problems.


43 posted on 09/25/2012 5:58:23 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: demsux

your numbers are utterly wrong — last time around he squeaked with 52% of the votes. this time all indications are that he’ll get a lower % than 52%, even among CINOS or “easter-christmas catholics”


44 posted on 10/20/2012 11:17:53 PM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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