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Officials field Flemington residents' questions on need for assault rifles for police
NJ.com ^ | September 25, 2012 | Rick Epstein

Posted on 09/28/2012 7:20:01 AM PDT by Altariel

FLEMINGTON — Several residents questioned the need to buy four assault rifles for the borough Police Department at the Borough Council meeting Monday night.

When council candidate Dorothy Fine asked why the guns are needed, Mayor Erica Edwards said that they would be needed in case an “active shooter” must be dealt with.

****

The mayor and council want to buy four .40 caliber 30-shot Heckler & Koch automatic rifles for $10,000. A final vote on the funding for that equipment and other capital equipment for the borough could take place on Tuesday, Oct. 9, a meeting that will be held a day later than usual because of the Columbus Day holiday.

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; flemington; newjersey
We're talking about a small town, population ~4500, with a low crime rate, folks.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Flemington-New-Jersey.html

I submit that if they really wanted rifles to use in an active shooter situation, they would use something more akin to an M-16.

Perhaps they want to engage in a few "wrong house" raids with their desired toys.

1 posted on 09/28/2012 7:20:06 AM PDT by Altariel
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To: Altariel
I submit that if they really wanted rifles to use in an active shooter situation, they would use something more akin to an M-16.

If they had an active shooter, I could see the use of a sniper rifle. I have no idea why the cops need to "spray and pray" in such a situation.

2 posted on 09/28/2012 7:24:09 AM PDT by KarlInOhio ("Government is the only thing that we all belong to"=implicit repeal of the 13th amendment for all.)
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To: Altariel
Call me ignorant, but what's a .40 cal automatic rifle?

I know this is .45, but it's still a pistol caliber.


3 posted on 09/28/2012 7:24:54 AM PDT by wastedyears (The First Law of Heavy Metal: Not all metal is satanic.)
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To: KarlInOhio
If they had an active shooter, I could see the use of a sniper rifle. I have no idea why the cops need to "spray and pray" in such a situation.

It's because they want to play military for real, instead of doing an Airsoft skirmish.

4 posted on 09/28/2012 7:26:05 AM PDT by wastedyears (The First Law of Heavy Metal: Not all metal is satanic.)
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Besides, they REALLY want them!

BTW, I’m no expert, but the only .40 caliber rounds that I can find are pistol cartridges. Would be fun in a carbine, but not really that tactical?


5 posted on 09/28/2012 7:29:21 AM PDT by Rio (Tempis fugit.)
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To: Altariel

Of course the police need these toys!

So does the Social Security Administration, the EPA, Homeland Security, the IRS...



6 posted on 09/28/2012 7:30:45 AM PDT by Bon mots (Abu Ghraib: 47 Times on the front page of the NY Times | Benghazi: 2 Times)
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To: Bon mots
We just need to arm ourselves and our dogs well.


7 posted on 09/28/2012 7:36:29 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

And I would say ‘follow the money’ ... with the KelTec sub2000 accomplishing the same shooting task as the expensive H&K but for under$750 fully equiped with optics, etc, this smells of funneling money to a favorite at taxpayer’s expense.


8 posted on 09/28/2012 7:40:00 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Altariel

It has to do with the magical powers of the evildoer’s weapon.

If you are faced with a shooter with an AK, he has a strength of 50. If you have merely a Glock .40 cal, you have a strength of 10, and you can’t shoot him even if you are in a superior position.

You need to upgrade your weapon rating to at least 55, and a .40 subgun with 30 rd mag and hollowpoints will do that. Maybe with a green laser sight too!

In other words, the cops think that they will become better at tactics and shot placement if they have a gun with special powers. This is either magical thinking, or too many hours playing Quake and Halo.


9 posted on 09/28/2012 7:42:22 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: MHGinTN
"...this smells of funneling money to a favorite at taxpayer’s expense."

Yep. Who's the proposed supplier? Have to bet that there's a dealer close at hand who's cosy with the local LEOs.

10 posted on 09/28/2012 7:51:03 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Socialism consumes everything)
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To: MHGinTN

I’ve owned a Sub2000 (.40SW that uses Glock 22 mags) and I wouldn’t issue it to anybody who’s serious about the task at hand.

Crappy trigger.
Crappy ergonomics.
Inaccurate as hell.
You cannot mount an optic to it if you want to fold it.

The cops need a moderately expensive AR in their cruiser trunk and they’d be able to outfit a lot more than 4 cops for $10,000.


11 posted on 09/28/2012 7:52:42 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: KarlInOhio

Active shooter usually means that you usually have to go in and stop them, not wait until they pop up in a window. A subgun or a semi-automatic AR makes much more sense.


12 posted on 09/28/2012 7:54:08 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Altariel

PETA might try to attack Flemington Furs, so I’d say just let the employees buy and carry their own.


13 posted on 09/28/2012 7:56:09 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Altariel

Seems like a massive waste of money to me. They are going to outfit a 4 man SWAT Team with this, when they could outfit their entire force for that money with AR-15 based weapons.


14 posted on 09/28/2012 8:04:13 AM PDT by Thunder90 (Kick Obama out of the White House in 2012.)
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To: Altariel

Don’t allow them the funds to purchase those weapons unless the public has the right to buy the same thing.

Things should be balanced Afterall.


15 posted on 09/28/2012 8:09:00 AM PDT by puppypusher (The World is going to the dogs.)
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To: Thunder90

If they want a 40 caliber plinker they could get the Beretta CX4 Storm for around $700. Not automatic but maybe the media could confuse them like they do the citizenry when someone uses a semi-auto in a crime.


16 posted on 09/28/2012 8:13:51 AM PDT by Edison (I don't know what irks me more, the lying or the incompetence.)
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To: Edison

If the CX4 could be converted for Glock 22 mags, I’d get one in a second. I’ve used them and they’re really one of the better pistol-caliber carbines out there.

Still waiting, after 20+ years, for a TRUE Glock carbine.


17 posted on 09/28/2012 8:15:57 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: SJSAMPLE

I live in Flemington. There hasn’t been an active shooter ever in this part of New Jersey. The cops here deal with dealers of small quantities of drugs, domestic problems and traffic. They don’t need these kinds of expensive toys.

Hunterdon county, of which Flemington is the seat, is the safest county in New Jersey.


18 posted on 09/28/2012 8:25:15 AM PDT by JeanLM (Obama proves melanin is not enough)
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To: Altariel

12 gauge with buckball is much more suitable for the tasks at hand: To establish superior firepower and clear a room if need be.

None of the mass killings involved assault weapons.


19 posted on 09/28/2012 8:26:23 AM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: Altariel

Pistol caliber is now an assualt rifle?

Ridiculous.


20 posted on 09/28/2012 8:28:16 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Bon mots

Canting his rifle to his left, he may miss what he is aiming at, depending on the range. I still would not like to be down range from him.


21 posted on 09/28/2012 8:28:27 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Altariel

Ruger Mini-14

Springfield Armory SOCOM-16

M1 Carbine

Cheaper, better.


22 posted on 09/28/2012 8:34:17 AM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
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To: JeanLM

I recall seeing several stories recently about black bears “invading” that part of NJ..possibly the cops feel the need for more firepower..?


23 posted on 09/28/2012 8:35:39 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: JeanLM

I don’t deny that the need/chances are small.
I’m questioning the choice of firepower and the cost.

They chose expensive insurance for a low-opportunity event.
They could easily have covered more bases with cheaper rifles.

The retired officer is right.
They just want ‘toys’.


24 posted on 09/28/2012 8:36:07 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Altariel

This is about Homeland Security money I would bet. They are getting “free” money and want to spend it.


25 posted on 09/28/2012 8:45:04 AM PDT by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: SJSAMPLE

I priced the system at the rate it would be delivered, With A SPECIAL RAIL SYSTEM SO OPTICS CAN BE MOUNTED AND ROTATED WHEN WEAPON IS FOLDED. lOOK IT UP, BECAUSE YOU ARE APPARENTLY STILL THINKING OF THE WEAPON AS ORIGINALLY SOLD. i HAVE A LASER AND FLASHLIGHT ON MY .40 CAL AND IT FOLDS QUITE NICELY.


26 posted on 09/28/2012 9:35:30 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Altariel
There is no legitimate purpose for any police department to have, possess, or use any full-auto weapon of any kind.
27 posted on 09/28/2012 10:05:47 AM PDT by zeugma (Rid the world of those savages. - Dorothy Woods, widow of a Navy Seal, AMEN!)
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To: zeugma

You can buy AR15s for $800 all day long, $1000 if you add for scopes, etc. Police don’t need H&Ks. Springfield Armory, etc will do just fine.


28 posted on 09/28/2012 10:19:36 AM PDT by rstrahan
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To: rstrahan

Decent optic is at least $400 and add a light.
I’d go with $1500 for a complete rig, just to be safe, but you’re on the right track.

However, semiautomatic patrolman ARs just aren’t as sexy or fun as a .40SW submachinegun...


29 posted on 09/28/2012 10:35:49 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: wastedyears
Call me ignorant, but what's a .40 cal automatic rifle?

A sub-machinegun.

30 posted on 09/28/2012 10:45:04 AM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: gundog

I know the H&K UMP 45 is obviously .45; do they make that submachine gun in different calibers?


31 posted on 09/28/2012 11:26:04 AM PDT by wastedyears (The First Law of Heavy Metal: Not all metal is satanic.)
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To: Altariel

The town must have a high dog population.


32 posted on 09/28/2012 1:16:00 PM PDT by patriotsblood
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To: wastedyears

.40 and 9mm...all the good modern sub-gun calibers. Seems an extravagance for this force, though.


33 posted on 09/28/2012 5:24:08 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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