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Trying to fill 6,000 jobs, Microsoft pitches $10,000 H-1B visa
Network World ^ | September 28, 2012 08:55 AM ET | Patrick Thibodeau

Posted on 10/02/2012 7:20:23 AM PDT by knittnmom

WASHINGTON -- With the recession hit in 2008, Congress put the idea of a "skills shortage" and a need for more H-1B visas in a closet.

That didn't mean, though, that interest in raising the H-1B cap went away for everyone.

New York City Mayor Bloomberg, for instance, last year called the limits on both temporary and permanent employment-based immigration a "form of national suicide."

Microsoft has long advocated for more work visas. But the company's advocacy was quieted during the recession as well, as it announced in 2009 a layoff of 5,000 workers.

Circumstances at Microsoft have since changed for the better.

Microsoft said Thursday that it has some 6,000 open positions in the U.S., and is creating new jobs faster than it can fill them. The company is now using its own workforce needs to make a case for a new type of H-1B visa as well as a permanent employment visa.

(Excerpt) Read more at networkworld.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: computerindustry; cultureofcorruption; foreignlabor; h1b; h1bvisa; india; jobs; liedtocongress; lyingliars; microsoft; microsoftlies; milliondollarmarxist; obamascandals; outsourcing; techsector
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1 posted on 10/02/2012 7:20:27 AM PDT by knittnmom
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To: knittnmom

How about increasing your wages and expaning in more cities aholes.


2 posted on 10/02/2012 7:24:24 AM PDT by jjw
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To: knittnmom

MS should put a bunch of scholarships out there, and then maybe more graduates will appear.


3 posted on 10/02/2012 7:25:57 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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Microsoft is lying its a** off when it says it can’t fill positions with Americans. Filling a position with an H1B employee allows a company to trap an employee in the position while and until all H1B conditions are met. I’ve seen many employees get stuck in bad situations in this condition. My company does this intentionally also.

There are enough Americans easily available to do these jobs. The problem from the company’s perspective is that American’s won’t take the crap that comes along with the position, the crap being that you’re competing with slave labor companies in China that drive you out of the market.


4 posted on 10/02/2012 7:26:50 AM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: knittnmom

I do not often propose areas in which the federal government should become more active, but I think we might consider taking federal funds for college loans (do we need more Women’s Studies majors?) and shift that money over to corporate subsidies for companies that bring back On The Job training. You don’t need H1-Bs and not everyone needs a college degree. Just hire some eighteen-year-olds, and teach them a trade.


5 posted on 10/02/2012 7:30:53 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: knittnmom

$10,000?

How about 1/2 of the salary over 7 year green card period in escrow? If Green card isn’t awarded, escrow gets forfeited.


6 posted on 10/02/2012 7:31:06 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: AlmaKing

Lumpy, cynical, middle-aged, white software veterans aren’t willing to work 70 hours a week for $45,000/year the way young, single Indian nationals are, and thus represent a poor economic value for Microsoft when the global labor arbitrage is taken into consideration. Microsoft’s threat is, “Hey, at least the H1B’s are doing the work here and paying US taxes...but we can do this in Bangalore, if you really, really want us to.” And government is likely to fall for that argument.


7 posted on 10/02/2012 7:35:48 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: knittnmom

Bringing people in to do work that Americans won’t do is a big mistake.


8 posted on 10/02/2012 7:37:14 AM PDT by I want the USA back
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To: knittnmom

Uhuh.

How’come the Billy and Milly Gates Foundation has done such a crappy job of elevating the qualifications of American graduates?

Or is it just that H1B imports with their feet dangling over the caste system back home make for better, more obedient, McTech$laves?

What happened to Microshaft outsourcing its brainpower from Pashtukistan?


9 posted on 10/02/2012 7:39:47 AM PDT by TArcher
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To: knittnmom

Wow, with more and more options everyday in computers. Why buy Microsoft products?

Their the #3 IT company now (in size) behind Apple and Google. They will never catch up.


10 posted on 10/02/2012 7:44:28 AM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: desertfreedom765

Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, and other hi tech companies created the shortage of American hi tech employees by getting the Clintoon administration to raise the H1-B limits in the 1990’s and deflating the salaries of existing American hi tech workers and contractors. When the salaries plummetted, the college students studying computer science switched majors to something more lucrative.


11 posted on 10/02/2012 7:51:03 AM PDT by CarmichaelPatriot
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To: Mr. Jeeves; ClearCase_guy

They don’t need to hire middle aged. I like ClearCase_guy’s idea better, hire our American youngsters and teach them a trade. It’s a better long term investment.


12 posted on 10/02/2012 7:52:48 AM PDT by AlmaKing
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To: knittnmom

Seems like the saying today is “American’s need not apply” with corporate interest and their connection to our Outstanding Leader.


13 posted on 10/02/2012 7:53:45 AM PDT by CORedneck
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Thirty years in software consulting leads me to this point.

Yes, it is more difficult to re-train software folks. However, proficiency in a software program is akin to a religion. What I know is better than anything someone else knows. “

“Give me more time and budget and I can solve the problem with 1) COBOL, 2) C++ FORTRAN 3)Etc. , Boss.”

The “bitter clingers /S” hold to their skills even as the world moves on


14 posted on 10/02/2012 7:56:36 AM PDT by Makana
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To: CarmichaelPatriot

Between Outsourcing, Insourcing and immigration, everything possible is being done to lower the wages of Americans.

Then they wonder why the economy is so bad and they can’t collect enough taxes to fund Government. Idiots.


15 posted on 10/02/2012 8:01:12 AM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: AlmaKing

Yeah, I don’t think there is a shortage of American tech workers in the United States.

That’s a big lie in the Tech industry. It’s much more profitable to hire an Indian worker and pay them a meager salary than paying an American a 6 figure income.


16 posted on 10/02/2012 8:04:34 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: Makana

Never understood that as new languages are easier to use. I used to be a C++ guy, now I do all my coding in C#. Much easier.

The nadir for programming languages was Ada. Worst language ever.


17 posted on 10/02/2012 8:11:17 AM PDT by rbg81
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To: rbg81

That’s great. You should be proud.

If more software folks were like you, I would have had much less business!


18 posted on 10/02/2012 8:13:54 AM PDT by Makana
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To: stuartcr

Nobody believes in training any longer. Nobody.


19 posted on 10/02/2012 8:16:15 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: wiggen

That’s probably why they can’t fill openings.No one wants to charge overhead...the bean counters figure it’s better to hire foreigners for cheaper. Everyone knows no one has experience right out of school but it’s still cheaper to hire a bunch of people at lower wages, figuring on some of them becoming valuable, than spend money on training. Put them on contract money, then after the contract, if they are any good, keep them, if not, lay them off.


20 posted on 10/02/2012 8:28:56 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: Makana
Thirty years in software consulting leads me to this point.

I've been doing a lot of consulting, too.

There are plenty of people that refuse to retrain. I'm not going to defend them -- their fate is their own fault.

But, I refuse to believe that we have to bring in a bunch of people on H1B visas to fill the gap. There are plenty of people that will gladly retrain.

I've worked at places that are ENTIRELY staffed by people on H1B visas. I find it really hard to believe they couldn't find current US residents (citizens or otherwise) to do at least some of the work.

21 posted on 10/02/2012 8:29:07 AM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good WOMAN (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) with a gun)
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To: knittnmom

How about a boycott of Microsoft and their crappy products? Then they wouldn’t need any more workers.


22 posted on 10/02/2012 8:29:39 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: AmericanSamurai

Many of the kinds of guys they need are getting six-figure salaries in India. If you are in India and have a PhD in CS from a good school, you have it made.

Even the schlock Indian programmers who took the two-month Java course in the trade school next to the curry stand are making $25K these days.


23 posted on 10/02/2012 8:30:09 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: AmericanSamurai

Many of the kinds of guys they need are getting six-figure salaries in India. If you are in India and have a PhD in CS from a good school, you have it made.

Even the schlock Indian programmers who took the two-month Java course in the trade school next to the curry stand are making $25K these days.


24 posted on 10/02/2012 8:30:18 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: knittnmom

The H-1B program is the biggest employment fraud ever perpetuated by corporations and it has decimated the IT industry.

It wasn’t that long ago we were telling Americans that manufacturing was dead, get a high tech degree and go to work in the new services economy.

Now with 8% unemployment businesses can’t find folks to do manufacturing or technology? I call BS.

And corporations wonder why young folks aren’t choosing IT careers...


25 posted on 10/02/2012 8:32:06 AM PDT by TSgt (Pope Benedict XVI - The Vatican's Joe Paterno)
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To: rbg81
Never understood that as new languages are easier to use. I used to be a C++ guy, now I do all my coding in C#. Much easier.

I'm pragmatic about it. I use whatever is right for the task. A good software developer can figure out how to use any programming language and come up to speed quickly -- the real skill is integration of already functional parts anyway.

26 posted on 10/02/2012 8:35:33 AM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good WOMAN (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) with a gun)
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To: jjw

Where in the Constitution does it say Microsoft has to pay over the odds for employees?

I compete with Bangalore + Mumbai-based IT staff everyday. It’s not hard to adjust to a global market. All you have to do is to price your labor correctly.


27 posted on 10/02/2012 8:38:34 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: knittnmom

One of the issues here is that Americans with IT skills created their own kingdoms within companies in the 1990s.

Those IT managers mostly resisted moving forward and resisted streamlining their operations as technology improved.

Therefore, many non-IT executives still have a bad taste in their mouths for American IT workers who constantly threatened management with disaster if they did not continue to comply with the IT manager wishes.

IT salaries shot up and many have resisted the normalization as more and more students saw the lucrative opportunity at many corporations.

Bottom line: there is blame on both sides.


28 posted on 10/02/2012 8:39:32 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Makana
The “bitter clingers /S” hold to their skills even as the world moves on...

True enough, and I have no problem letting as many skilled immigrants in - as free agents. I've always been an "open borders - no benefits" advocate, but the feudal serf terms of the H1B visa are unacceptable. Microsoft and other H1B advocates don't want a free market for talent - or anything else, for that matter.

29 posted on 10/02/2012 8:42:39 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: rbg81; Makana

I agree with you rbg81-

I do not understand Makana’s comment

I have been a software contractor for 25 years- I HAVE TO Learn the latest stuff and keep my skills up

In addition, since I know the OLD stuff I am in demand updating old C++ to new C#, and/or fixing old C++ no one else can do


30 posted on 10/02/2012 8:51:09 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The only thing the World would hate more than the USA in charge is the USA NOT in charge")
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To: justlurking

I have also worked at places that were PREVIOUSLY staffed with H1B visa people from India

I had to re-write EVERYTHING

India is onto this and their best and brightest have long since been picked.

Now anyone can get a degree and get shipped overseas to USA and the managers in USA think they can actually code things


31 posted on 10/02/2012 8:54:06 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The only thing the World would hate more than the USA in charge is the USA NOT in charge")
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To: justlurking

I apply the same argument every time I turn on a MLB game or other sport. You telling me that they cannot find good American boys to ball? Let Dominicans and others form their own league and compete.


32 posted on 10/02/2012 8:55:18 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: knittnmom

They JUST LAID OFF about 2000 here in Puget Sound Region not two weeks ago. They moved a bunch of jobs to China at the same time, about 2800 or so.

They then announced they hired people to the tune of 800.

This is nothing but patent bull sh!t. This is what gives corporations bad reputations.


33 posted on 10/02/2012 9:16:52 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Does beheading qualify as 'breaking my back', in the Jeffersonian sense of the expression?)
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To: Mr. K
Now anyone can get a degree and get shipped overseas to USA and the managers in USA think they can actually code things

The problem is the bean counters in HR. They think that software developers are interchangeable.

If someone is willing to settle for indentured servitude at a slight discount off the market rate, that person is automatically preferred, even if they have no knowledge or experience relevant to the application.

On the other hand, the guy that is already familiar with the application (perhaps because he wrote the previous version) is considered over-priced.

I've seen development outsourced, only to find we had to throw it away and start over. The bean counters never figure that risk into their cost comparisons.

34 posted on 10/02/2012 9:16:52 AM PDT by justlurking (The only remedy for a bad guy with a gun is a good WOMAN (Sgt. Kimberly Munley) with a gun)
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To: AlmaKing

I saw an ad on dice.com last year for what appeared to be someone to test software that runs GPS receivers.

To do it right is a non-trivial task.

The ad was offering $33 per hour. Contract. In LA.

That’s not even new-grad pay.

They were clearly trying to build justification for an H1B visa, for a guy who would share a one-bedroom apartment with three other guys, and send half his pay home to India or China.

All the while claiming “There are no qualified Americans to fill the job”, hiding the fact that that’s half the going rate for anyone who wants to be able to support a family.


35 posted on 10/02/2012 9:34:52 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: knittnmom

Why does all the whining and crying about finding qualified tech employees always seem to come from Microsoft? Their success has been due to being at the right place at the right time, marketing, and strategy. Their technology is sloppy and mediocre at best.


36 posted on 10/02/2012 9:56:05 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: AlmaKing
One point which is missed on both sides of the argument.

Programming is a VERY rare skill set in which the general population is not capable of learning.

37 posted on 10/02/2012 10:01:15 AM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic at 9.8357x10^8 FPS)
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To: jjw
How about increasing your wages and expaning[sic] in more cities aholes[sic].

IT unemployment is a little less than 1.4% nationwide, and less than 1.2% here in Dallas. There are simply not enough resources to fill the open jobs. We're talking $85k and up jobs here.
38 posted on 10/02/2012 10:02:27 AM PDT by TexasGunLover ("Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."-- President George W. Bush)
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To: AlmaKing
There are enough Americans easily available to do these jobs.

I live right in the middle of flyover country looking for this talent everyday. There are 10 openings for every qualified C#/.NET developer and I'm including H1B applicants. There is a BIG shortage of this talent.

39 posted on 10/02/2012 10:08:06 AM PDT by IamConservative (The soul of my lifes journey is Liberty!)
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To: rbg81

What programming languages have the worst documentation or instruction sets?


40 posted on 10/02/2012 1:53:49 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: knittnmom
Billionaire Marxists don't have enough damn cash yet. They have to petition the government to lower degreed engineering position salaries down to third world wages.

It doesn't just affect Microsoft employees, it hits the entire tech industry.

FUBG.

And for the record, I know that Bill Gates no longer runs the company but he did this crap in the 1990s and has the balls to say that I'M not paying enough in taxes. He also has come out in FAVOR of death panels.

Screw Million Dollar Marxists.

41 posted on 10/02/2012 6:32:42 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Obama likes to claim credit for getting Osama. Why hasn't he tried Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yet?)
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To: AmericanSamurai

The fat cats who are demanding lower wages for workers are making a hellf*** more than 6 figures in their BONUS CHECKS alone.


42 posted on 10/02/2012 6:54:48 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Obama likes to claim credit for getting Osama. Why hasn't he tried Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yet?)
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To: desertfreedom765
Wrong. Microsoft is still WAY ahead of Google in revenue, profit and market cap.....but WAY behind Apple.
43 posted on 10/02/2012 8:27:25 PM PDT by ravager
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To: AlmaKing; Mr. Jeeves; ClearCase_guy

Train them for the trade because its a better investment ya think?

And what happens when they leave the company for a better job after they get trained? If training is a better investment then why do you think companies don’t do it? Because it never occurred to them?

Training is the job of schools. Companies have products to make and stuff to deliver to customers. Look at it from beyond the prism of H-1B, Indian or American engineer. Fact is there is huge surplus of engineers from overseas. They are cheap, they are available and they fulfill the minimum skill level requirement. Companies face a choice, either THEY utilize those resources or their competitors will. And the choice is very clear.


44 posted on 10/02/2012 11:00:24 PM PDT by ravager
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To: Mr. Jeeves; AlmaKing
Firstly I have hardly seen any H-1B actually make $45,000/year. The average income of Indian minority in the US is $90k. And lot of people make much more then that. And considering most H-1Bs work on contract with “middle-man” companies taking a cut, and companies have to hire attorneys for H-1Bs and green card filing, H-1Bs are actually much more expensive in reality.

Secondly I highly doubt an unemployed “middle-aged, white software veterans” would pass up a job offer only because he has to work 70 hours a week for less wage... unless of course he is having too much fun sitting on his butt collecting unemployment.

For most “middle-aged,software veterans” there might be a bit of a skill gap. The world have kinda moved far away from Cobol and Mainframe. Its always a challenge to keep up with younger blood with fresh skills in this trade.

45 posted on 10/02/2012 11:31:32 PM PDT by ravager
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To: desertfreedom765

Microsoft sucks because they hire Indians?

Who do you think Apple and Google hires? 100% all American work force?

Apple:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tech/news/hardware/Why-Apple-hires-more-outside-US/articleshow/11649594.cms

Google:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/Technology/Google-India-to-hire-more/Article1-750461.aspx

http://www.webpronews.com/google-india-to-hire-hundreds-of-engineers-2010-11


46 posted on 10/02/2012 11:49:19 PM PDT by ravager
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To: ravager
Fact is there is huge surplus of engineers from overseas. They are cheap, they are available and they fulfill the minimum skill level requirement.

Any sensible company would jump at the chance to get access to that pool of talent. I understand why Microsoft (and others) push for certain policies.

Any sensible national government would try to help its own citizens first, and develop domestic policies that help We The People rather than foreigners and rather than corporations. If the only policies in place are policies that help US citizens, then US companies may ask for different policies but they shouldn't get them. Through tax policies and tariffs, US companies could be discouraged from off-shoring.

If the US government works against its own citizens, then the citizens should overthrow the US government.

I know that big corporations want to call the shots, but that's not how our Constitution is written.

47 posted on 10/03/2012 3:24:59 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: knittnmom; All

If you cannot find Americans to work....you are Anti-American. So tired of this Anti-American horse crap

We do not need H1-B Visa Amnesty....much less any other form of Amnesty


48 posted on 10/03/2012 3:26:25 AM PDT by SeminoleCounty (Political maturity is realizing that the "R" next to someone's name does not mean "conservative")
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To: ravager

As for your first post. The Market Cap for MSFT is 248 Billion, Google is 247.8 Billion. So they are virtually tied. Google is gaining ground fast.

I don’t like it when any company uses the H1B program as an excuse to not hire Americans. Their are plenty of qualified Americans for these jobs. But not at the salary these companies want to PAY. They want CHEAP LABOR, and they should be called out on it. This applies to all companies.

Microsoft is in trouble because they are not an innovative company. Never was. They got ahead by using their Market Size to crush more innovative companies. (Netscape, Novell, Word Perfect, etc).

They can’t use this strategy with Apple or Google. Both companies are too big, fast and innovative for them.


49 posted on 10/03/2012 7:48:16 AM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: ClearCase_guy
So you are saying the Government should do something. And what should they do? Let me guess....slap another regulation to shut out the foreigners. Because it is too much work for kids to go through 4 years of college, study tough subject like math, science and engineering, start out small and work their way up. Too much work for people to retrain themselves and compete globally. Its just easier to slap another regulation because we have so few of those.

Yeah the government should do something. And the companies must also spend money on training us so we can make our $100k/year that we are entitled to make. That is what the Constitution says.

/s

50 posted on 10/04/2012 5:32:34 AM PDT by ravager
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