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German court warns Catholics: pay church tax or face expulsion
Belfast Telegraph ^ | Thursday, 27 September 2012 | Tony Paterson

Posted on 10/04/2012 5:57:10 PM PDT by Olog-hai

A German court gave its backing yesterday to a decree by the country's Catholic bishops declaring that believers who refused to pay an eight percent church tax could not be considered Catholic and would automatically lose the right to receive Holy Communion and a religious burial.

The verdict, which was delivered by Germany's chief administrative court in Leipzig, was a bitter defeat for Germany's grass-roots Catholics and conservative church campaigners who had denounced the bishop's decree as "pay and pray" and claimed it sent "the wrong signal". …

The ruling was welcomed by Germany's Catholic bishops who said it had finally dispelled the notion that individuals could belong to a church without paying church tax. …

(Excerpt) Read more at belfasttelegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: europeanunion; germany; russia; unitedkingdom

1 posted on 10/04/2012 5:57:17 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Is this from the Onion?


2 posted on 10/04/2012 6:06:09 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Olog-hai

directly from Belfast Northern Ireland....a Catholic cannot be excommunicated for not paying a tax....doesn’t happen.


3 posted on 10/04/2012 6:08:30 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: Talisker
I see this in lots of other sources. Fox News is even carrying the AP stories on this.
4 posted on 10/04/2012 6:12:37 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: terycarl
directly from Belfast Northern Ireland....a Catholic cannot be excommunicated for not paying a tax....doesn’t happen.

LOL, yeah, but read the article: "Catholic bishops stressed that non-payers could no longer be considered Catholic and would automatically be banned from receiving Holy Communion, working in church schools or hospitals and taking part in parish activities. They also stated that without a "sign of repentance before death" religious burial could be refused. Opting out of the tax would also bar individuals from becoming godparents to Catholic children, they added.

5 posted on 10/04/2012 6:13:00 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: terycarl
No; they do stop short of excommunication, but they appear to be holding firm on sacrament denial.

The Belfast Telegraph story is the same one that is in the UK’s Independent.
6 posted on 10/04/2012 6:15:06 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
I absolutely accept a Catholic’s obligation to support the Church as well as many other obligations.But a *tax*,mandated by an “earthly” government cannot be binding.
7 posted on 10/04/2012 6:18:02 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Ambassador Stevens Is Dead And The Chevy Volt Is Alive)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Apparently this is a continuation of a nineteenth-century tax imposed on Catholics, Protestants and Jews. Why we didn’t disestablish that when we were occupying escapes me.


8 posted on 10/04/2012 6:22:53 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

I’ve already commented on a few of these.

They need to stop collecting taxes for the church. I don’t think I would call it a church if its that intertwined with the state/


9 posted on 10/04/2012 6:24:34 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Olog-hai

Guess they want to drive people away from the Church with this medieval tactic.


10 posted on 10/04/2012 6:41:18 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: Olog-hai

Desperate people do desperate things, and it works both ways. The bishop apparently needs money, and his “faithful” are desperate for salvation.


11 posted on 10/04/2012 6:59:14 PM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: RginTN
Guess they want to drive people away from the Church...

That was my first thought too. The Church has won the battle, but they will lose the war.

12 posted on 10/04/2012 7:03:37 PM PDT by Leaning Right
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To: Olog-hai

I’ve had people tell me Hitler was a good practicing Catholic too. Uh NO. What is it with Germans and treatment of individuals based on religion?

(I am 1/4 German fwiw)


13 posted on 10/04/2012 7:35:02 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Leaning Right

1517, anyone???


14 posted on 10/04/2012 8:01:21 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun Control means hitting where you're aiming!))
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To: MacMattico
It would be impossible to categorize Adolph Hitler as a good or even observant catholic considering his well documented world view which he articulated in some way in almost every speech he made. however, Hitler did remain until his death a Catholic in good standing with his diocese by virtue of his regular payment of his ‘confessional tax’ . Strange but true.
15 posted on 10/04/2012 8:05:30 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: castlebrew
1517, anyone???

I hear you. But I'm more concerned about an eventual repeat of 1453 (the fall of Constantinople). But next time it won't be a city that falls, but a continent.

16 posted on 10/04/2012 8:10:06 PM PDT by Leaning Right
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To: robowombat
Yet many of his private remarks and writings reveal to us today that he really hated Catholicism and only used it for personal gain by pretending to be a Christian. He knew the Catholic church would be a powerful force against him amongst the German people if attacked. Conversely, this is also why many Catholics were able to secretly work against him because they were allowed a little bit of freedom. Claus Von Stauffenberg, of Operation Valkyrie, was a Catholic from an aristocratic Catholic family. Hitler tried to appease this group but not everyone fell for it.
17 posted on 10/04/2012 10:19:50 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: robowombat

I responded to you like you said he was a good Catholic but you clearly make the case in your first sentence he wasn’t. Sorry about that.


18 posted on 10/04/2012 10:24:24 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Olog-hai
About the 57th thread on this.

People, the format Catholics are being denied Communion because they RECOUNCED THEIR FAITH -- LEFT THE CHURCH, not because they didn't pay a tax.

19 posted on 10/04/2012 10:33:12 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: steve86

format = former


20 posted on 10/05/2012 9:18:41 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: GeronL
They need to stop collecting taxes for the church. I don’t think I would call it a church if its that intertwined with the state/

I always find it interesting that many FReepers are surprised to find that there is no clear separation between church and state in Germany. In some regards, Germany really is different. E.g. not only are there pastors giving religious education in public schools, in some German states there are even confessional state schools.
21 posted on 10/05/2012 2:10:14 PM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: wolf78

No, the problem is that when government is inside the church the church becomes a puppet of the government.


22 posted on 10/05/2012 2:22:24 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
No, the problem is that when government is inside the church the church becomes a puppet of the government.

You see a disagreement where there is none (as a libertarian I do see some sense in a separation of church and state). I merely observed that it is funny how we all look at other countries through the lense of our own cultural bias. Instead, we ought to see things in their original context. In Germany the government is inside the church just as the church is inside the government. Heck, the last presidential election in Germany basically came down to three theologians. We can agree or disagree with that. My point, however, is: We shouldn't be SURPRISED. Germany is not the US.
23 posted on 10/05/2012 2:45:41 PM PDT by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: wolf78
In Germany the government is inside the church just as the church is inside the government

Then they are not church as we know them.

24 posted on 10/05/2012 2:58:57 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Leaning Right

That too.

And they don’t even see it coming...


25 posted on 10/05/2012 6:40:16 PM PDT by castlebrew (Gun Control means hitting where you're aiming!))
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