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Unarmed Army reservist shot dead by NYPD cop while reaching for drill at traffic stop
The Daily Mail Online ^ | October 5, 2012 | Emma Reynolds

Posted on 10/07/2012 6:36:02 AM PDT by Uncle Chip

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To: Uncle Chip

I just put down my drill about fifteen minutes ago...my default position is usually forward, but it was reversed today...wtf?


51 posted on 10/07/2012 9:50:52 AM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: GreaterSwiss

Indeed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/det-hamdy-named-earlier-brutality-lawsuit-article-1.1176119


52 posted on 10/07/2012 9:54:41 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: rlmorel

“Perhaps” is all I intended. Since the guy turned out to be clean, and it would be incredibly stupid to point a drill at the police in the dark, I was looking for a reasonable accidental explanation.

As to the predictable bifurcation of default positions on FR, it is what it is.

I tend to be sympathetic to the police, but I’ve experienced enough occasional bullying and threatening behavior to be very careful, more careful than I think I should have to be.


53 posted on 10/07/2012 10:02:20 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: rlmorel

That was my point.


54 posted on 10/07/2012 10:08:09 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
"...I’ve experienced enough occasional bullying and threatening behavior to be very careful, more careful than I think I should have to be..."

On this, we agree. Also, in my younger days, I was fairly well paranoid of police, and thought they were out to get me while I was driving. Driving a sports car (if an MG Midget may be categorized as such) and being a young man are two ways you can get on a cop's radar, literally speaking.

Then, I came to the realization they weren't specifically out to get me, they were simply looking for things that stuck out, like someone going faster than the other traffic, driving a car that someone might cross traffic laws with, etc.

But I am not too naive to think that big city cops don't have a huge problem with larger groupings of people, because in those big cities, they deal with crappy people from all walks of life, and I expect it is difficult not to become callous, resulting in bent and broken limitations on their power.

55 posted on 10/07/2012 10:10:42 AM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I know...I know!


56 posted on 10/07/2012 10:11:19 AM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: NVDave

I will say, from appearances, that detective looks like a “boiling pot” to me. Granted, they probably were snapping his picture when he didn’t want them to, but even so.


57 posted on 10/07/2012 10:15:01 AM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: Uncle Chip

The cops had been cut off twice by an erratic driver who then attempted to flle. At 5 in the morning. When he was finally forced to pull over by being “boxed in”, the cops approached the vehicle with apprehension and extreme caution (obviously).

Moments later the driver was shot dead.

In my opinion there are three possible reasons for the shoooting
1. The cop murdered the driver in cold blood in front of a lot of witnesses.
2. The cop fired his weapon unintentionally, perhaps out of nervousness or a hair trigger or some other reason. (And yeah, “another reason” the cop had a tight grip on his weapon could be that the cop was pissed because the driver had cut him off twice on a highway at night, thereby endangering his life and the lives of the other passengers.)
3. The driver continued to act stupidly, and did indeed reach down toward the floor of his dark vehicle as the cop’s weapon was trained on him, at which point the cop fired. (And yeah, maybe the “road enraged” cop just wanted an excuse, any excuse, to shoot the driver. ... And the driver was helpful.)

Regardless of the above possibilities, it was the driver who put himself in a position to suffer this tragedy.
In any event I feel badly for everybody involved.


58 posted on 10/07/2012 10:17:29 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

And then there is this interesting observation from a commenter to this article:

HananJamaica, NY
The account of the NYPD sounds unbelievable. When seated in a car, unless the seat were leaned back in a lounge position, the stomach area is a tight space to have a bullet fired into. The body is in a near 90 degree angle between knees under the steering wheel and the back being upright. Hamdy would have had to have been standing at the front side of the car window near the windshield to shoot someone seated as such in the stomach— from a very specific angle. At this angle, Hamdy would see the chest, shoulders and hands maybe, They may not have been visible if they were on the steering wheel. As described by NYPD, Polanco made a motion reaching down to the floor of the car. Polanco could only move so far and almost any move would have provided more protection for his stomach area reducing the angle to much less than it was in a seated position. Polanco can’t get shot in the stomach if the gun is at the side of the car; there is virtually no angle for this to occur. If Polanco moves, there is less opportunity for a stomach wound. If Polanco’s hands remain on the wheel and he does not move— this provides a logical, measurable angle for a stomach wound to occur. Hamdy’s positioning outside of the door nearly facing Polanco and Polanco’s limited movement appear to be the only way a stomach wound is possible. Until the trial with ALL of the details emerge, the NYPD can say anything. Don’t believe the off-duty officer was asleep through all this! Polanco did not have a chance!

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/mother-of-man-killed-by-police-i-want-no-cover-up-i-want-answers/?partner=rss&;

In other words the officer could not have hit Polanco in the abdomen if he had been leaning forward to reach under the seat at the time. It would have had to go into his side not his abdomen. The autopsy and ballistics will be interesting.


59 posted on 10/07/2012 10:28:46 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
"Watch carefully as we will be told that this elite ESU force has not been trained in how to do traffic stops."

That'll be a little hard to claim seeing as they more than likely started out as rookies, and had to do that in their early years with the force. And I'm sure that they all undergo mandatory training and refresher courses every year.

60 posted on 10/07/2012 11:01:49 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: NVDave
"Watch carefully as we will be told that this elite ESU force has not been trained in how to do traffic stops."

Interesting that Hamdy is wearing a U.S. Marine t-shirt in that recent photo. Wonder if he was ever in the Marines. Hopefully some reporter will do some digging into his record...if that's possible.

61 posted on 10/07/2012 11:08:10 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: mass55th

Yes he was and yes they did:

“Before becoming a police officer, Mr. Hamdy served four years in the Marine Corps, joining in 1992 and rising to the level of sergeant in an artillery division based out of Camp Lejeune, in North Carolina. He performed well there, his military records indicate, earning medals for good behavior and for performing his duties above and beyond what was required.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/nyregion/grief-and-anger-after-noel-polanco-is-fatally-shot-by-police.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


62 posted on 10/07/2012 11:40:38 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard

Although I,more often than not,side with the cops in a situation like this I’m strongly inclined to take the other side in this case.


63 posted on 10/07/2012 11:41:28 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Ambassador Stevens Is Dead And The Chevy Volt Is Alive)
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To: Uncle Chip
"Before becoming a police officer, Mr. Hamdy served four years in the Marine Corps, joining in 1992 and rising to the level of sergeant in an artillery division"

So he was a DRILL Sergeant.

Sorry...couldn't resist.

And thanks for providing the info.

64 posted on 10/07/2012 11:57:15 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: mass55th

That was a reach

You’re welcome


65 posted on 10/07/2012 12:00:13 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
The autopsy and ballistics will be interesting.

Whoa... It almost sounds here like you are ready to wait for an investigation before crucfying the cop!
Congratulations.

66 posted on 10/07/2012 12:03:28 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Investigation -- yes.

Whitewash -- no.

Sleeping Beauty's silence tells me that it will be a Whitewash.

67 posted on 10/07/2012 12:31:29 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: muawiyah

So, which is it...a hit over a girl...a mob hit...the taliban in the NYPD? As I said...you are delusional.


68 posted on 10/07/2012 12:50:54 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

All the evidence points to exactly that ~ there is no evidence whatsoever that any one of the cops ~ and there were a lot of them on all sides ~ said anything like “Watch it he’s got a Black and Decker”


69 posted on 10/07/2012 1:05:31 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lancey Howard
The cops were doing a maneuver I've seen Secret Service and FBI do HUNDREDS of times over on nearby I-95 on their way to Quantico.

They use the firing ranges there and they drive down to the site using large SUVs ~ and sometimes even trucks.

They weave in and out of traffic and never leave enough room in between their vehicles to allow someone to get between them. This is for practice for when they might need to do it for real.

This sort of thing in heavy traffic turns them into targets but don't tell them that everybody in Virginia is already armed to the teeth ~ they don't care ~ because they know that as long as they don't do a "Squat and Stop" it's more than likely nobody will shoot them ~ and they know that only because no one has done that yet.

We all know who they are. Still I'm sure a number of them think other drivers have no idea!

There have been road rage events in that area. A truck driver and a motorist got into a regular shooting match one day near the main bridge over the Occoquan.

From the viewpoint of the drivers in the convoy anyone attempting to change lanes into their lane would look like there was an attempt to 'cut them off' ~ and that's because everyone in the convoy but the lead driver does not view the lane changes as real ~ they don't even sense them.

The second driver who failed to keep up would see any car in the lane to the left as cutting him off.

I bet a good civil practice lawyer is going to be sitting there with an insurance adjuster at his side interrogating every officer present in a command interrogatory.

They will find out the cops were practicing high speed convoy protocols ~ which means they shot their victim without even any provocation ~ it wasn't him moving back and forth, it was them!

So, murder 2? All the cops in this one? Or just the shooter? GAZILLION DOLLAR AWARD FUR SHUR>

70 posted on 10/07/2012 1:20:49 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Uncle Chip
Sleeping Beauty's silence tells me that it will be a Whitewash.

Sleeping Beauty is only suspended at this point. She is still on the police force. Therefore, she has to keep her mouth shut and allow all communications with the press and public to come through official channels. Wait... You didn't know this?

/headshake

71 posted on 10/07/2012 1:21:27 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: muawiyah

That’s an interesting story, but this was not the Secret Service. This was a SWAT team that was in Brooklyn for the purpose of executing a warrant. Also, it was 5:00 in the morning and I doubt the traffic was especially heavy at that hour.


72 posted on 10/07/2012 1:25:45 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Uncle Chip

The guy has a drill in the seat next to him. He throws on the breaks and the drill slides onto the floorboard, possibly under the break pedal. He reaches down to move it because it is a hazard to have something sliding around under the break pedal.


73 posted on 10/07/2012 1:26:54 PM PDT by Walmartian (I'm their leader. Which way did they go?)
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To: Lancey Howard
She is still on the police force. Therefore, she has to keep her mouth shut and allow all communications with the press and public to come through official channels.

and those official channels first said that she was awake holding her ID outside the windows just before the shooting. And then after they heard what she had to say about the incident those same official channels decided that she was really asleep the whole time until after the shot went off.

So who is lying??? Is she lying or are the official channels lying???

According to you it is the official channels and I tend to agree.

74 posted on 10/07/2012 2:23:43 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Walmartian
He had a passenger in the seat next to him. But it is possible that when he stopped the drill that was under the seat did slide forward and he reached down to push it back.

However, if you have been on the force for 14 years and driving for 20 you would know that this is happens often to vehicles that are stopped suddenly and you wouldn't be shooting drivers for pushing things back under the seat.

And then there is the matter of ballistics. If his hands are both on the steering wheel, a shot to the abdomen from the passenger side window where the officer was is easy. But if he is reaching under the seat as the officer claims, the shot would have likely hit his arm or side -- not his abdomen.

75 posted on 10/07/2012 2:43:51 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard
Do you have a story about the warrant? Anybody get a picture of it?

The SS and FBI around here DO THEIR GAME with or without heavy traffic ~ they just do it.

I doubt these sharp eyed protectors of the public interest had a warrant ~ and they could have simply taken down the plate number and looked up the driver later on.

It was a hit; it was stupidity; it was a jihadi after an Army reservist; it was somebody upset about his girlfriend; it was maybe somebody upset about his boyfriend; whatever you want it to be, that's what it could very well be, even officers needing more time on the range so they learn to deal with triggers.

And no traffic at 5AM around LGA? What is this?

76 posted on 10/07/2012 2:54:33 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lancey Howard
Do you have a story about the warrant? Anybody get a picture of it?

The SS and FBI around here DO THEIR GAME with or without heavy traffic ~ they just do it.

A Few months back we had a jihadi driving up and down I-95 in the wee hours of the morning shooting at the Pentagon, military recruiters, Quantico, various other military installations around here, so I know those guys do that stuff too ~ so there's a war on.

I doubt these sharp eyed protectors of the public interest had a warrant ~ and they could have simply taken down the plate number and looked up the driver later on.

It was a hit; it was stupidity; it was a jihadi after an Army reservist; it was somebody upset about his girlfriend; it was maybe somebody upset about his boyfriend; whatever you want it to be, that's what it could very well be, even officers needing more time on the range so they learn to deal with triggers.

And no traffic at 5AM around LGA? What is this?

77 posted on 10/07/2012 2:57:54 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

It’s like talking politics with a moonie at the airport.


78 posted on 10/07/2012 3:00:26 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Uncle Chip
and those official channels first said that she was awake holding her ID outside the windows

Wrong. That item was in the first (Daily News) story and was attributed to alleged "police sources", ie, NOT official channels. But thanks for being an audio-vusal aid for why it's wise to wait for a thorough investigation to be complete before jumping to knee-jerk conclusions and convicting the cop.

Anyway - - yet again - - who cares if she was or wasn't waving a stinking ID out the back window of a car that had to be forced over at 5:00am after reckless driving and an attempt to flee? A cop is going to stroll up and examine this alleged ID? Really?

79 posted on 10/07/2012 3:07:22 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: wtc911
You seem to be oblivious to the fact your Freeper name takes on the exact same form as the guys and gals at the Obama Truth Squad.

There's 3 initials, 3 numbers from a significant historic event. The top pukes over there get that sort of netname. Those a little down the Obamugabe daisy chain might have to accept '123', or maybe even '666'.

So, how do you expect to be spoken to?

You might be dealt with differently around here if you got a new name. BTW, the fact you skip right on past the fact the shooter has a typical Moslem name is also taken into consideration as we weigh the factoids in this case.

80 posted on 10/07/2012 3:11:04 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lancey Howard
Wrong. That item was in the first (Daily News) story and was attributed to alleged "police sources", ie, NOT official channels.

Do you hear me laughing!!!!

It wasn't "alleged" -- it said "police sources" which means "cops on the ground". closest to the vehicle. And no one would think to say something like that except a police officer.

No one else on the ground there had "sources" giving out information -- only the police. So that came from a policeman in the know.

What makes you think that those "police sources" were not telling the truth from the start.

Do you really think that people out here are that naive???

Official sources are censoring sources selecting facts and twisting words to craft a narrative beneficial to the department.

I'll take police sources over official channels any day.

81 posted on 10/07/2012 3:29:52 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard
A cop is going to stroll up and examine this alleged ID? Really?

The point is that she put it out the window JUST BEFORE THE SHOOTING according to police sources on the ground at the scene -- which means that she wasn't asleep as official channels now allege.

That means that she saw the shooting and knows whether Polanco had his hands on the steering wheel or not.

AND if he didn't have his hands on the steering wheel and she saw he didn't the official channels would have her in front of cameras saying so and would be quoting her to the press ad infinitum 24 hours a day.

But the aren't.

82 posted on 10/07/2012 3:42:21 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Yes, it’s only Sunday, but this story is already a serious contender for CF of the Week.


83 posted on 10/07/2012 4:02:24 PM PDT by tomkat
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To: muawiyah

Yeah, the cop is a taliban plant who talked six other cops into ambushing a NG troop and I took my freeper name 11 years ago in anticipation of the obamsa truth squads...you really are a bit un-wrapped, aren’t you.


84 posted on 10/07/2012 5:22:58 PM PDT by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911
Some of them seem to have taken over otherwise unused names. They get caught.

Skipping past the Moslem in this rather bizarre case is a serious issue.,P>And you started name-calling ~ a clarion signal of abject defeat.

85 posted on 10/07/2012 5:30:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Lancey Howard

Someone else asking the same question:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/10/nypd_officer_sh.php

Again, an off-duty officer was supposedly sleeping in the back seat of the car the entire time — she claims she didn’t witness the shooting.

Yes, it sounds a little odd to us, too.

If we were stopped by a cop and had a sleeping cop in the car with us, the first thing we’re gonna do is wake her up to speak with the officer who’s pulling us over — hope that perhaps a little professional courtesy might lead to a warning rather than a ticket, or worse.

That, apparently, didn’t happen.

We sent the NYPD an email asking for an explanation of how the sleeping officer managed to miss the entire shooting. We’re yet to hear back.


86 posted on 10/08/2012 7:49:53 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
she claims she didn’t witness the shooting.

Whoa..!That's the first I've heard anything directly from her! She has come out and personally made that claim? Wow! Breaking news!
What a scoop for... the Village Voice?

/eyeroll

87 posted on 10/08/2012 8:19:44 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
"Again, an off-duty officer was supposedly sleeping in the back seat of the car the entire time — she claims she didn’t witness the shooting.".... What a scoop for... the Village Voice?/eyeroll

Would you expect the official spokesperson for someone who was supposedly sleeping in the back seat the whole time to claim that she said otherwise???

88 posted on 10/08/2012 9:12:44 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
Would you expect the official spokesperson for someone who was supposedly sleeping in the back seat the whole time to claim that she said otherwise???

Show me a reliable source where this "sleeping" cop makes any claims at all, and specifically, what she claims she saw or didn't see. Direct quotes for her, please... I'm up to here with second-hand inferences.

Until somebody can do that, I'll get back to you after the investigation is completed. (Imagine that - - waiting for all the facts before convicting somebody in liberal knee-jerk fashion.) Talk to you then.

89 posted on 10/08/2012 9:21:01 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

“The police proceeded to try to chase us, sticking their middle finger at us and screaming obscenities at the car and trying to pull us over,” DeFerrari said.

With no police logos and no sirens blaring, DeFerrari said she had no idea they were cops.

“I honestly thought it was an armored car and security for an armored car. At no time did they specify police,” DeFerrari said.

DeFerrari said the flashing lights were on, but the sirens weren’t. Seconds later, she said, at least eight officers rushed to the car with guns drawn and even rifles out before one fatal shot was fired.

“They did say simultaneously with the fire, ‘Put your hands up!’ There was no time to put your hands up at all,” she said.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/10/04/police-investigating-shooting-on-grand-central-parkway-in-queens/

EIGHT OFFICERS rushed them.

Police official channels said only 2 officers.

So who’s lying???

Who would reach for anything under their seat with 8 officers with guns drawn facing them — much less 2.


90 posted on 10/08/2012 9:38:20 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard
We have no direct quotes from her -- period.

Except that we are told that she was sleeping the whole time. Did someone witness her sleeping??? No. So how would anyone know unless she said so or someone is claiming that she said so. Because she ain't talking.

Regarding her hands out the window waving an ID??? The report of that waving ID did not have to have come from her. Someone like a police officer on the scene would have seen that waving out the window. She didn't have to say a word for that incident to be verified. We would know about it independent of her words.

And that NY Daily story in which it was reported had 4 reporters -- not just one. So several people would have probably heard about the waving ID.

91 posted on 10/08/2012 9:52:10 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
Who would reach for anything under their seat with 8 officers with guns drawn facing them — much less 2.

I dunno... Maybe a fleeing, reckless driving drunk on his way home from a "lounge" at 5 in the morning?

So who’s lying???

Between a bartender on her way home from the lounge and a police department? I don't know - - tough call.

92 posted on 10/08/2012 10:44:34 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Uncle Chip

Early reports had the deceased with his hands on the steering wheel..


93 posted on 10/08/2012 10:49:05 AM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (I made a prank call...pretended I was a mime.)
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To: Uncle Chip

LOL!
“It was in the newspaper so it MUST be true!”


94 posted on 10/08/2012 10:49:14 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
“It was in the newspaper so it MUST be true!”

As is the line that she slept through the whole thing.

95 posted on 10/08/2012 11:05:20 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

I suspect that a drill was found in the car so the police then fabricated the story that, because the drill is vaguely shaped like a pistol, he was reaching for the drill.


96 posted on 08/12/2013 5:29:32 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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To: Gay State Conservative
But who in God's name reaches for a *drill*?

I think two people said he never took his hands off the wheel. If the police then saw the drill in the car or if it was found later then the police would incorporate it into their own claims. After all, to a police officer, a Black and Decker yellow drill does look just like a Glock 40.

97 posted on 08/12/2013 5:35:16 PM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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