Posted on 10/09/2012 7:25:35 PM PDT by Pharmboy
It’s the ‘true Israel’ problem.
Official Christian belief is that Christians became ‘true Israel’ and Jews are no different from Chinese in God’s will. But the plain text of the Bible leads to a periodic return to the belief in Jews as ‘chosen’ for the future as well as the past.
‘British Israelism’ and the like are an attempt to have it both ways: To have the ‘right’ religion and also to have ‘true Israel’ bloodlines.
“Likely several other crew were Jewish as well”
Very likely, in that sailing was a Jewish profession of the time -— could not own land, but could own a ship.
There’s a great book “Jewish Pirates of the Carabbean” — being many Jewish sailors fleeing the Inquisition became pirates.
His mom was certainly Jewish. His father, differing opinions.
Under the Law, a Jew.
“Jews are descendants of Judah and not of all Israel.”
Grammatically, yes. In reality, we’re all mixed up.
I’m a Levite, theoretically. But I certainly call myself a Jew.
Look at the number voting for Democrats as proof. ;-]
If only a remnant of each tribe went to Judah wouldn't they be diluted out? Did they marry outside of the individual tribes?
Intermarriage between tribes was very normal, but tribal affiliation only passed through the biological father.
Then there’s the story of Zelophehad’s daughters...
“Man, I’m having to dig thru my brain but I read a book 30 years ago about the differentiation between Sephardic (which I recall as indigenous, darker skinned genetic original Jews, and the Ashkenazi who were largely converts(?) who went up into Europe.
Someone please beat me with a stick ; I’m no historian or scholar.”
I think Google could be your friend.
They’re good girls and wise.
Then, given intermarriage, does it make sense to even talk of tribes or Lost Tribes?
“So sue me!”
I am not certain what you are asking.
The father determines the tribe; the mother if a person is Jewish.
There are many Jewish people who have a gentile father, and are “tribeless” Jewish people. There are many gentiles that are part of a tribe, but are not Jewish.
“Ashkenazi who were largely converts(?)”
A disproven theory, now propigated by sand nazis, er, I mean arabs.
I believe there's a plausible theory that Columbus himself was Jewish--and with a Spanish crew at that time surely some of his men would of been (at least genetically) Jewish.
I have read that something like 40% of current-day Spanish men have Semitic DNA... (of which some may of come from the Arabic Moors, in addition to the Jews). In 1492 the last of the Moors were ejected from Spain...AND infamously, the Jews too, were forced from the country (or, perhaps more often, forced underground--or forced to convert to Roman Catholicsm)--so this could account for why so many Spanish today show some Semitic DNA.
Given that Spanish explorers made it into the South-West very early (before 1525?) I don't see Jewish DNA any mystery with the Indians there...
The Jews of Jesus' day were NOT just descendants of Judah. Benjamin, Levi and varying amounts from other tribes too had, after the Assyrian invasion of the North, made it back into the South of Palestine (the region of Judah).
The idea that the ten tribes in the North were "lost" is a romantic 19th Century invention. The ten northern tribes--after centuries of idolatry--and intermarriage-with-pagan-tribes (those things went together) got conquered by the Asyrians, who had a policy of displacement of peoples...and resettlement of their own people there. Hence the Northern tribes became intermarried, conquered, displaced--and totally diluted--into the (despised) religiously and ethnically diverse Samaritans by Jesus' day.
While the South too was conquered--and moved to Babylon--their idolatry wasn't as total--Babylonians didn't displace them in Palestine--and they maintained their ethnic and religious identity in Babylon (and later Persia)and 70 years later returned to the land.
No similar thing happened with the Northern tribes (they did NOT maintain their religious/ethnic identity...and they never, en mass, returned to the land.)
So while modern Jews can be said to be primarily from Judah, Benjamin and Levi (the priestly tribe) figure in there as well, at least.
This isn’t too surprising. With the expulsion of the Jews from Spain lots migrated to America, whether as converts or crypto-Jews. The New Mexico frontier was truly a frontier between the Spanish and the Indians. There was lots of intermarriage.
True, but here is the documentation.
Maybe google my basement.
Don’t know if the book was accurate at all, but it was at least an insight to the Diaspora for this gentile.
There were all kinds of theories back then, the lost tribe of Israel landing in Britain, etc.
Stuff I hadn’t thought much about before or since. We were seeking keys to prophecy as I recall.
We were all worried about the European Common Market and its 10 or 12 horns....
I know there is a true seed of Jacob that plays an important role in the end times, but I consider myself a Gentile and have enough trouble keeping up with that.
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2003/throne.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
http://www.britam.org/Tribesman/GeneaologyDavid.html
Very interesting. Particularly “the stone which the builders rejected”
Still, we are warned about endless geneologies..
1 Timothy 1:4 “Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.”
Thanks- I was intrigued by the subject many years ago.
What’s needed are similar tests done to PreColumbian remains — oh, wait, that’s banned under NAGPRA. Weird coincidence.
Not if you have an agenda that would be disturbed by findings not in accord with your notions of how things are.
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