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Armstrong banned for life, stripped of seven Tour titles
NBC.com ^

Posted on 10/22/2012 4:26:59 AM PDT by Perdogg

Cycling's governing body agreed Monday to strip Lance Armstrong of his seven Tour de France titles and ban him for life, following a report from the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that accused him of leading a massive doping program on his teams.

Speaking from Geneva, International Cycling Union President Pat McQuaid confirmed to a news conference that UCI had decided to uphold USADA'S decision to strip Armstrong of his Tour titles.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: lancearmstrong
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1 posted on 10/22/2012 4:27:05 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Perdogg

And yet they have NOT exhibited any proof of his cheating.


2 posted on 10/22/2012 4:30:14 AM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Perdogg

No surprise, if he did break the rules I’d imagine everyone knew it. They knew it because they were cheating too.


3 posted on 10/22/2012 4:31:02 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: newfreep

Huh? Are you kidding?


4 posted on 10/22/2012 4:31:15 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Perdogg

The world of cycling is now breathing a sigh of relief....whispering “better him than me....”


5 posted on 10/22/2012 4:32:35 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Jab him with a harpoon.....)
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To: 1rudeboy

Only hearsay - no blood testing results.


6 posted on 10/22/2012 4:32:41 AM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: driftdiver
USADA [note: not UCI] has said the Tour titles should not be given to other riders who finished on the podium.
The agency said 20 of the 21 riders on the podium in the Tour from 1999 through 2005 have been "directly tied to likely doping through admissions, sanctions, public investigations" or other means. It added that of the 45 riders on the podium between 1996 and 2010, 36 were by cyclists "similarly tainted by doping."

7 posted on 10/22/2012 4:32:58 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Perdogg

Leave Lance alone!


8 posted on 10/22/2012 4:34:27 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Perdogg

So, the titles will go to other peole who cheated but weren’t caught?


10 posted on 10/22/2012 4:36:18 AM PDT by nuconvert ( Khomeini promised change too // Hail, Chairman O)
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To: newfreep

LOL—whenever I see a comment like that, I’m reminded of Rumsfeld’s term, “deadender.”


11 posted on 10/22/2012 4:37:13 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Perdogg
This is BS. Same as when they stripped Jim Thorpe's Olympic medals only to restore them 30 years after his death.

Pure BS.

12 posted on 10/22/2012 4:37:22 AM PDT by yobid
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To: Hot Tabasco

I do not know what he actually did or did not do. However, I note that most (all?) of his accusers have been tagged for using performance enhancing drugs. Rather like being accused of child molestation by the governing board of NAMBLA who seek to be considered normal.


13 posted on 10/22/2012 4:38:52 AM PDT by Pecos (Double tap: the only acceptable gun control)
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To: 1rudeboy

Where are the blood results that show him cheating?

/rhetorical


14 posted on 10/22/2012 4:39:01 AM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Perdogg
Hope his sponsors sue him into bankruptcy. Biggest fraud in sports history
15 posted on 10/22/2012 4:39:03 AM PDT by Dagnabitt (If I had a failed one-term President, he'd look like Obama.)
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To: newfreep

He knows what he did and didn’t do but he also can never be erased from he podiums of the news coverage then. He is still in possession of the yellow jerseys. Even the labs can produce no evidence but only suspicion. Suspicion based on what, that he was not a European and especially a Frenchman?

Somebody’s ox got gored and they have made it their business to destroy someone because of a personal vendetta. Is Bart Giamatti still alive?


16 posted on 10/22/2012 4:40:23 AM PDT by mazda77 ("Defeating the Totalitarian Lie" By: Hilmar von Campe. Everybody should read it.)
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To: newfreep
Why the "rhetorical" tag? You don't expect an answer?

USDA Report shows Lance Armstrong is a Scumbag (.pdf file)

17 posted on 10/22/2012 4:43:02 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: newfreep

Eyewitness testimony is not “hearsay.”. Hearsay would be if all the evidence was people saying “I heard Armstrong say that he doped.”. The evidence against Armstrong is, instead, a whole bunch of people saying, “I saw Armstrong do a, b and c,” which is not hearsay.


18 posted on 10/22/2012 4:44:53 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: newfreep
And yet they have NOT exhibited any proof of his cheating.

You're embarrassing yourself.
19 posted on 10/22/2012 4:45:11 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: Pecos

George Hincapie rode with Lance Armstong during all 7 TdF. He was one of his top co-riders. Hincapie has NEVER tested positive for cheating. He testified that both he and Lance successfully doped/cheated.


20 posted on 10/22/2012 4:50:16 AM PDT by HelenaGrace
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To: Magnatron
He is ruthless and nasty, but another crime is his audaciousness. He's like Obama in some ways. I'm going to be so in your face you won't be able to pin anything on me, ever.

If Armstrong hadn't been so flagrant with doping, taking it to another level, winning 7 TdF in a row, had been nicer all around, business would still be going on as usual.

21 posted on 10/22/2012 4:51:50 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: newfreep

...Other than he said she said. The entire professional cycling world has basically been turned upside down by those who got caught being intimidated into fingering others.

Frankly, they should stop right now, and either change the way they do business, end professional cycling, have a test that works, or allow blood doping to a certain level.

The problem remains in the testing. Because blood hemoglobin levels are different in every rider they just cannot test for blood that is tainted or improved by transfusion. How do you test for a needle poke, or two or three? The tour for example is so demanding I am betting that 90 plus percent of riders were doping. Just look at how many got caught versus how many others didnt but were doing the same thing with perhaps just a little more finnesse. That is spelled not quite so much, or the timing was off by a few hours, or they got randomly caught.

I think how USADA has gone about exposing the cheating, if you can call what everyone was doing, cheating, and I don’t mean do diminish those few not blood doping, but when your entire program is compromised, your program needs a severe reevaluation, not a public denouncement of all accused of being involved without proof other than turning all competitors agains one another.


22 posted on 10/22/2012 4:54:14 AM PDT by wita
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To: newfreep

If you are looking for blood test, designer drugs do not show up on the blood. They have the proof. They have witnesses. Your hero is a liberal phony.


23 posted on 10/22/2012 4:55:39 AM PDT by bmwcyle
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To: HelenaGrace
That's one of Lance's lies. He has positive tests which were excused by donations and connections.

Armstrong is such a megalomaniac liar that it's almost surreal to imagine anyone would take it to the extent that he has, therefore he must be innocent. Obama does this too.

24 posted on 10/22/2012 4:57:08 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: bmwcyle

Accepting hearsay from his competitors but still no positive blood tests.

You sound like a typical leftwing kook!


25 posted on 10/22/2012 4:59:33 AM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Perdogg

They have tainted their own sport to the point that it should no longer be recognised.

let them ride their bicycles to work, or for recreation, competition is now a joke.


26 posted on 10/22/2012 5:06:13 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: wita

...So, instead of the sanctioning bodies taking the hit for allowing the rampant blood doping, because they had no real control, it is the cyclists themselves who have to take the hit. I’m not seeing it the way they are. It is the sanctioning bodies, and the testing agencies who need to say, we screwed up. We virtually allowed the doping to occur because we didn’t have a good enough test to stop it, and the cyclists and doctors were smarter than we were. Call it cheating together for the good of the sport, and now because of their desire to NOT share in the disaster, they bring the entire sport down.

Not how it should have been done IMHO, but then who am I?


27 posted on 10/22/2012 5:06:49 AM PDT by wita
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To: 1rudeboy

Huge document. What pages are the failed drug tests listed on?


28 posted on 10/22/2012 5:09:22 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: 1rudeboy

Huge document. What pages are the failed drug tests listed on?


29 posted on 10/22/2012 5:09:38 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Perdogg

He did the work to get 99.99% of the way. Doping is NOT what made him elite. I am unwilling to concede the point to USADA.


30 posted on 10/22/2012 5:11:15 AM PDT by Coffee... Black... No Sugar (I'm gonna' BICKER!)
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To: nuconvert
So, the titles will go to other peole who cheated but weren’t caught?

Exactly. If doping was so widespread and such a vast conspiracy as has been alleged, then they were all pretty much guilty of doing the same thing, so will all their wins be vacated as well? And if all or most of the elite cyclists were guilty of doping, then the playing field was still equal among his competitors and so Armstrong was still beating his competition.

The agency has never said that Armstrong failed a single test and all the claims against him come from other cyclists who claim that they themselves beat tests or avoided the test administrators altogether.

And isn’t EPO legitimate in its use for people who have undergone chemotherapy? Just asking.

And to be honest, in the world of all highly competitive sports, all athletes are looking for that edge. Some do it with the help of extreme training and diets rich in naturally occurring hormones or non-banned substances such as vitamin B shots or electrolytes and with the help of experts if they can afford them.

Perhaps instead of banning "doping", the USADA should just accept it and oversee its use.

31 posted on 10/22/2012 5:11:45 AM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: John O
There is an extensive section on how the Postal Service riders used injections of saline (and other methods) in order to avoid testing positive.

But if you truly want to see how much of a scumbag Armstrong is, read the section on witness intimidation.

32 posted on 10/22/2012 5:14:59 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Perdogg

This reminds me of the ‘say it ain’t so, Sammy!’ when Sosa’s bat cracked and revealed a cork interior.

Sosa’s excuse was that it was a practice bat that got mixed in with the game bats.

==

Per a previous thread, it seemed that some 7 other riders who knew Armstrong were also using similar ‘enhancements’ or had direct knowledge that Armstrong was.


33 posted on 10/22/2012 5:19:32 AM PDT by TomGuy (Dukakis is to tank as Obama is to binder & Big Bird)
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To: MD Expat in PA

This is exactly true.

- So many of the top riders were doping (and likely are doping) that for the most part this is a non-issue from a competitive standpoint. If they want to clean up the sport, then clean up the sport, don’t pretend that this is righting a wrong from the past. They all did it, but he was still better.

- EPO is not only legal, it is something our bodies produce naturally. That is why it is so difficult to figure out who is using it and at what level. They do things like test current versus past levels and try to test blood counts, but all of those things can be managed. It’s ability to up rbc counts makes it almost the perfect drug for competitive cyclists.

- Interestingly, I did some research on EPO in a former career (working at a radiation oncology department) and was published on a paper about its effects on patients receiving cancer treatments. This was early on in its adoption for that purpose and it worked splendidly.


34 posted on 10/22/2012 5:20:10 AM PDT by phothus (http://buanadha.wordpress.com/)
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To: Vision; newfreep
From Daily Telgraph live thread:

Interesting caveats now beginning to emerge, however. UCI insist that nothing in the USADA report implicated Hein Verbruggen in any wrong doing and that the UCI, although convinced by the testimonies relating to the Armstrong Tour winning years, doesn't regard the Armstrong tests in his comeback years (2009-10) as positive.

Well, that's all I've been claiming, but it does show that part of the USADA report in a bad light.

I feel vindicated. :-)

35 posted on 10/22/2012 5:20:49 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: Perdogg

One of my goals in life was to have as many Tour de France titles as Lance Armstrong has.

YES!!! I guess I can now check THAT one off the ol’ bucket list! :-)


36 posted on 10/22/2012 5:22:06 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: newfreep
You sound like a typical leftwing kook!

Funny that you would say that [to someone else], when you are the one reacting like a lib defending Bill Clinton by refusing to read the Starr report.

37 posted on 10/22/2012 5:23:42 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: newfreep

Go to the Appendices and Supporting Documents tab here and read the affidavits. Hincapie, Leipheimer, Vande Velde, Vaughters, and Zabriske in particular. http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/


38 posted on 10/22/2012 5:31:30 AM PDT by ironman
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
Eyewitness testimony is not “hearsay.”. Hearsay would be if all the evidence was people saying “I heard Armstrong say that he doped.”. The evidence against Armstrong is, instead, a whole bunch of people saying, “I saw Armstrong do a, b and c,” which is not hearsay.

“I heard Armstrong say that he doped.” would not be hearsay, it is direct testimony as to what the witness heard.

"Bob said that Armstrong says he doped." would be hearsay, because the witness only knows what Bob told him, not what Armstrong actually said.

39 posted on 10/22/2012 5:37:12 AM PDT by GreenLanternCorps ("Barack Obama" is Swahili for "Jimmy Carter".)
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To: newfreep
Accepting hearsay from his competitors

What are you blabbering about??? Eyewitness testimony of 26 witnesses who saw Armstrong doping and/or heard him admit to such on multiple occasions is not hearsay. It is testimony that can stand up in a court of law and will. That is why Armstrong did not contest the USADA report.

40 posted on 10/22/2012 5:44:19 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Perdogg

Cycling’s governing bodies need to own up to their inadequacy. If you impose rules on participants, you must have adequate and valid means for enforcing those rules. I am on the record as being ambivalent about PED use, and could probably even get behind the idea of its acceptance in all sports (provided no laws are broken).

Cycling’s enforcement regime is just riddled with problems. I think you either have to have a bright line definition (you test positive, you’re out), or don’t test or enforce at all.


41 posted on 10/22/2012 5:47:49 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: phothus
- So many of the top riders were doping (and likely are doping) that for the most part this is a non-issue from a competitive standpoint. If they want to clean up the sport, then clean up the sport, don’t pretend that this is righting a wrong from the past. They all did it, but he was still better.

That’s my point. If they were all doing it, then either Armstrong was doing it much better than the rest or he was just the better athlete overall, would have still been better if none including Armstrong were “doping”. That doesn’t make what Armstrong or the other cyclist did “right” but it puts it into some perspective IMO.

- EPO is not only legal, it is something our bodies produce naturally. That is why it is so difficult to figure out who is using it and at what level. They do things like test current versus past levels and try to test blood counts, but all of those things can be managed. It’s ability to up rbc counts makes it almost the perfect drug for competitive cyclists.

My understanding is that “doping” is evident as an increase of red blood cells, something that can be also achieved through diet and extreme physical training and as well as from pharmaceutically produced EPO. Is that correct?

- Interestingly, I did some research on EPO in a former career (working at a radiation oncology department) and was published on a paper about its effects on patients receiving cancer treatments. This was early on in its adoption for that purpose and it worked splendidly.

Good point. If Armstrong was taking EPO because of his cancer treatments, would that still be “illegal”?

43 posted on 10/22/2012 6:02:09 AM PDT by MD Expat in PA
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To: Perdogg
poor French; can't win their own bike race..the humiliation..
relax @ least, you don't have Islam-loving pResident O'Bozo
and your youth are standing against the Islamic Hoards invaders..
ours, many (not all) w/their heads-up-their asses..xboxing.

44 posted on 10/22/2012 6:03:37 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; w/ different flie$" :^)
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To: skinkinthegrass
Is that why people are reflexively defending Armstrong? Because it's really about the French? LOL
45 posted on 10/22/2012 6:07:33 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Perdogg

Armstrong=Sociopath


46 posted on 10/22/2012 6:07:34 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: Pecos

So we should believe what, that Armstrong is really from the planet Krypton, since he was able to beat all the cheaters without doping? If the cheaters admit they cheated, and Armstrong beat them, then it’s almost redundant to get the cheater’s testimony against him. He’s already testified against himself just by winning in such a playing field.


47 posted on 10/22/2012 6:09:06 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

They don’t have any test results. Shouldn’t tht count for something, or nothing, as it were? Does no one find it troubling ha=ow this has been “tried?”


48 posted on 10/22/2012 6:10:53 AM PDT by PghBaldy (Obama in a binder!!!)
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To: wita

So if I invent a new way to cheat that can’t be detected, it’s somebody else’s fault for not catching me fast enough? I thought athletics was supposed to teach accountability and personal responsibility, not teach people to abandon it for the sake of winning.


49 posted on 10/22/2012 6:12:02 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: PghBaldy

Throw the tests out, if you wish. What about Armstrong’s administration and trafficking of PED’s? What about the conspiracy? What about the bribery? What about the witness intimidation?


50 posted on 10/22/2012 6:17:00 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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