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Makers Consider being Takers - Overload Redistribution by Getting a Fair Share
Reflection | 11/8/2012 | Self

Posted on 11/08/2012 4:31:55 AM PST by Jumper

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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Miscellaneous; Society
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A body of thought has been swirling around for some time related to "the takers vs. the makers".

With the advent of election result, maybe it is time for conservatives to embrace anew Government for what is has become.

Too many conservatives have denied themselves the basic services or benefits offered to those we consider takers. This is our own fault and let me explain my thoughts on this. Conservatives up until now have not participated in the gross negligence of largess provided to those who are knowledgeable of government assistance or what we sometimes see as handouts.

It is time to SLOW the Humanist Tide against the people who oppose it but there is really only one way and it would appear that Redistribution is the key. President Obama has run Government for takers. Conservatives need to start TAKING; taking all we can get will leave less for those we oppose - and Government will work for all of us at that point. Conservatives should overload the financial aspects of the Government Freebies by taking our share.

The election turned on social issues in part, to be sure - everyone is entitled to a fair share according to the President.

There is too much debt and not enough if the 35% of the Country that is conservative TAKES their FAIR Share.

To fully appreciate this form of guerrilla warfare against socialism by joining it is to overload that very Re-Distribution.

Freepers el at could respond to this post with all the ways you are aware Government GIVES and we should build a list - Conservatives by their very nature are opposed to handouts or too busy otherwise to come into contact with the Government Re-Distribution - Let us educate ourselves in this thread so that this new Administration Gives to the entire Nation and not just those who voted with their hands out

1 posted on 11/08/2012 4:31:56 AM PST by Jumper
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To: Jumper

Remember you paid into the system. It’s your money and somebody else is using it. Better hurry before the cart gets overloaded and all your money has been spent.


2 posted on 11/08/2012 4:34:20 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: Jumper

This concept is well-explained here:

http://www.starvingthemonkeys.com/


3 posted on 11/08/2012 4:37:32 AM PST by krb (Obama is a miserable failure.)
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To: Jumper

I don’t know if you are being tongue-in-cheek or serious. However, I am going to keep on “making” and abide by the Biblical mandate, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 2:10


4 posted on 11/08/2012 4:39:53 AM PST by Drawsing (The fool shows his annoyance at once. The prudent man overlooks an insult. (Proverbs 12:16))
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To: tsowellfan
Remember you paid into the system.

Yes - absolutely true, but paying into the system doesn't buy you any equity in

It’s your money

Once the government seizes it, it is no longer your money. It WAS your money and now it's the government's and not even a thank you.

and somebody else is using it.

Well that is one of the two best things about government jobs - spending someone else's hard earned money, and the other is never ever having to admit when you're wrong.

Better hurry before the cart gets overloaded and all your money has been spent.

TOO LATE!! Not only has you money been squandered, but borrowed trillions mortgaging the future of the nation have been dumped down the rathole. PLUS except for social security + medicare these programs are MEANS TESTED. If you actually work for a living or have any savings, you can't get on the gravy train without committing fraud.

5 posted on 11/08/2012 4:42:38 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Drawsing
I do not think this means for us to stop working. Myself, I am going to stop donating money to organizations that pretty much give handouts to people already on the public dole. Its bad enough that our tax money is redistributed, but we do have a say on money we donate. Start there.
6 posted on 11/08/2012 4:44:03 AM PST by bella1 (As it was in the days of Lot.....)
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To: tsowellfan

I dont disagree with this. each persons situation is different. Dennis Miller spoke of this approach yesterday.
I plan on earning less to avoid being stolen from.
I convinced my son to get an EBT card.

maybe its time to add my tagline after nearly 2 years.


7 posted on 11/08/2012 4:47:33 AM PST by americas.best.days... ( I think we can now say that they are behind us.)
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To: from occupied ga

I think the poster was talking about entitlements such as disability, health insurance for the 12 yr old dog, the free phones and any other program out there. It’s NOT too late but it will be soon when the wagon overloads.


8 posted on 11/08/2012 4:49:30 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: bella1

I would never stop working. I have my dreams and goals. That’s the catch with government programs, they keep you down. You earn money on your own and you’re done - no more freebies. That’s the catch.


9 posted on 11/08/2012 4:51:39 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: tsowellfan

Before you advocate such a plan, please realize that you are playing right into their hands. They are proponents of the Cloward-Piven strategy which seeks to get as many takers as possible to overwhelm the system. When the system crashes, as it inevitably will, the commies will be standing ready to take control of the chaos and we all know how commies control things. Better to starve the beast by living modestly and making an effort to support like minded patriots when purchasing or bartering for lifes necessities.


10 posted on 11/08/2012 4:52:25 AM PST by Josephat
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To: Josephat

You make a very good point


11 posted on 11/08/2012 4:53:49 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: tsowellfan

Same here...until retirement that is :) But certain donations are coming to an end. I’m done with helping people who live off my tax money as it is, especially with the holidays coming up. We will be asked to donate to every organization under the sun. Sorry, no more. Going to be very picky.


12 posted on 11/08/2012 4:55:39 AM PST by bella1 (As it was in the days of Lot.....)
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To: Josephat; All

As I said you make good points.

Here in my city there are people coming here from Somalia and straight to the disability bureau to sign up for a limp they have had from some injury they got in their country and they get it.

Never paid into the system yet they collect SSI, food stamps, public housing, cell phones and the whole nine yards.

Imagine how much federal money is being spent in this fashion to immigrants and “immigrants” in states like Arizona, California...etc.


13 posted on 11/08/2012 4:57:43 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: from occupied ga
PLUS except for social security + medicare these programs are MEANS TESTED.

Actually there is a form of "means testing" on SS retirement benefits. Since my taxable non-SS income is more than the government thinks I deserve, part of my SS retirement benefits are also taxed.

14 posted on 11/08/2012 5:04:22 AM PST by Roccus
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To: tsowellfan

I think the point is to over load the wagon, burn out the wheel bearings and cause the wheels to fly off.

I AM IN ON THIS: Where my Obama phone. Where my free gasoline. Where my free house. Where my free condoms. Where my food stamps. Where my, well you get the picture.

Yesterday my buddy and I were discussing this. He said gee, sounds good but I make too much money. I said simple, just lie.


15 posted on 11/08/2012 5:10:18 AM PST by Mouton (Voting is an opiate of the electorate. Nothing changes no matter who wins..)
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To: Jumper

Someone literally needs to post ways to get freebies. All of the people who voted for Obama already know how. If someone will post HOW to get that stuff, I’m game. I don’t have a clue. Honestly.


16 posted on 11/08/2012 5:13:09 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: tsowellfan
disability

You might be able to get away with this, but the "0bama phone" is tied to already getting welfare benefits which are means tested.

17 posted on 11/08/2012 5:18:05 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Jumper

ping


18 posted on 11/08/2012 5:18:55 AM PST by alrea
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To: bella1
ditto here
last year I spent hundreds of dollars buying “wish gifts” for kids in the local projects
yesterday these rasist brats brought my DD to tears in school by gloating about obama and calling her parents (me) vulgar names for voting for Romney (she was unwary enough to let them know when they asked)
This year all Christmas donations go to the poor box at church or to an animal rescue organization I support

If I am going to save mongrels I might as well save grateful loving ones

19 posted on 11/08/2012 5:20:17 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: Jumper

             

20 posted on 11/08/2012 5:20:37 AM PST by tomkat ( <shrug>)
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To: Roccus
Since my taxable non-SS income is more than the government thinks I deserve, part of my SS retirement benefits are also taxed.

Isn't that also tied to your "full retirement age?" Don't really know - just asking.

21 posted on 11/08/2012 5:21:08 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

No, it isn’t.

Check out line 20(a) and (b) on your 1040.


22 posted on 11/08/2012 5:22:39 AM PST by Roccus
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To: from occupied ga

Hit POST too soon.

Taking SS retirement benefits before “full retirement age” results in a decrease in benefits received.


23 posted on 11/08/2012 5:25:03 AM PST by Roccus
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To: silverleaf
mongrels

Perfect descriptor !

24 posted on 11/08/2012 5:27:40 AM PST by tomkat ( <shrug>)
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To: Jumper

From another post down the page:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2956910/posts

“”
As Joseph Sobran put it: “’Need’ now means wanting someone else’s money. ‘Greed’ means wanting to keep your own. ‘Compassion’ is when a politician arranges the transfer.’”

http://www.creators.com/opinion/john-stossel/greed.html

___________________
This country is overrun with ‘taker’ government policies, if ‘we’ do this the restructuring will happen faster - the band-aid will be ripped off quicker- it’s an oozing wound right now - the band-aid does need to come off to let it air out and heal.

Ready to rip the band-aid?

This strategy is monetary Anarchy to “this government” - they want to “take” money from us, they don’t want it the other way....because then “their government” plan doesn’t work.

*Buy only necessities (used items when ever possible)
*Claim higher dependents on taxes
*”Take” every deduction in April
* Utilize charity giving to lower taxes
*Apply for all assistance - whether you think you’ll receive or not (bog down the systems)

Hold on... because the future is a band-aid being pulled off - the question is....do you want it ripped off fast or tugged on ever so slowly?

Either way it’s going to hurt.
But that dirty, pussy, bacteria riddled band-aid has to go.


25 posted on 11/08/2012 5:29:29 AM PST by libertarian27 (Check my profile page for the FReeper Online Cookbook 2011)
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To: Jumper

I don’t know. At first I thought it was a great idea, especially since I’m technically right at the poverty line, but I’m going to keep trying to live the American Dream. That may be naive, but.. well.. gotta try. :(


26 posted on 11/08/2012 5:33:55 AM PST by Thorliveshere
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To: libertarian27
“’Need’ now means wanting someone else’s money. ‘Greed’ means wanting to keep your own. ‘Compassion’ is when a politician arranges the transfer.’”

After the word transfer should be added,..."at gunpoint."
Government is just another word for extortion.

27 posted on 11/08/2012 5:34:02 AM PST by Roccus
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To: Jumper

My attitude yesterday was this:

I am a state retiree living on a very modest pension (no big dollars for me). I live frugally and am quite content. Now, the state made a contract with me to contribute to a pension fund. Arizona’s state pension fund is more funded than most, but it is still underfunded. But I don’t care. I want mine and I want mine for as long as I live. And if the state has to raise taxes to help pay for my pension then they can go right ahead. I am not sure I even care if people coming behind me get theirs, as long as I get mine.

This is my first attempt at living like a true taker. I’m sure I’ll get better as I go along.


28 posted on 11/08/2012 5:42:52 AM PST by mancini
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To: Josephat

Big second to that, J.


29 posted on 11/08/2012 5:46:23 AM PST by carriage_hill (America - a great idea while it lasted... it's over.)
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To: Roccus
Taking SS retirement benefits before “full retirement age” results in a decrease in benefits received.

Yes, but my father was told by his financial advisor that taking early retirement and getting more payments for the rest of your life would result in him getting more over the long haul, not less. Me? I'm taking early retirement. That is, if the system is around in 7 years.

30 posted on 11/08/2012 5:48:13 AM PST by mancini
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To: Roccus

At 62, if I retire now, I get $1150/mo. At 65, I get $1625. At 67, I get $2350. Big diff. But by 67, it (SSI) probably will be either collapsed or run-dry.


31 posted on 11/08/2012 5:51:31 AM PST by carriage_hill (America - a great idea while it lasted... it's over.)
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To: silverleaf
Unless you know exactly where your church poor box donations go, don't give to it. Many churches get a list from the local social services office, so your money goes to the same folks.

Look around you. When you go shopping, or out to eat, talk to the help. Many of those people could use some help and probably are living on less income then the welfare recipients. They don't ever get the donations. And you know they're working. Leave a large tip, give them a gas card or grocery card or find out what they need or their kids want and surprise them with it. They will appreciate your gift and they won't feel entitled to it. Find a way to give your gift anonymously if you prefer.

32 posted on 11/08/2012 5:53:11 AM PST by Betty Jane
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin

“I don’t have a clue. Honestly.”

You automatically get “The Manual”, when you sign-up as a dem. Seems they all know how to do it. I don’t have a clue, either.


33 posted on 11/08/2012 5:55:15 AM PST by carriage_hill (America - a great idea while it lasted... it's over.)
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To: carriage_hill; mancini

Right, I took it at 62 also.

But that has no bearing on the fact that you have to pay income tax on part of those benefits if your taxable non-SS income is more than the gov’t. thinks you deserve.


34 posted on 11/08/2012 5:56:49 AM PST by Roccus
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To: Josephat

When the system crashes no-one will take control.

That is what a crash is.

There will be a reset—and that comes after no-one knows.

Look at what happened after the Roman Empire collapsed. There were a thousand years of chaos and nearly fifteen hundred before Karl Marx brewed his toxic mix.


35 posted on 11/08/2012 5:57:03 AM PST by cgbg (HLM--"Democracy is the theory that people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.")
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To: Roccus

I haven’t applied, and was going to wait until 67. But I’m having 2nd thoughts, now. I have a nice 401K for 65, and an $8.5mm Family Farm Business (closed 2011) for sale, but I’ll be lucky to get $1.5mm for it, if I can even sell it, in this 0bummer-destroyed economy. And cap gains tax jumps-up on Jan 1st, again dbl-taxing any sale monies. Screwed anyway I turn. My corp/personal CPA and I are looking at options.


36 posted on 11/08/2012 6:06:21 AM PST by carriage_hill (America - a great idea while it lasted... it's over.)
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To: bella1

100% agree, my wife and I discussed this last night. We are very charitable people but no more.


37 posted on 11/08/2012 6:15:29 AM PST by Arkansas Tider (Army EOD)
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To: carriage_hill

My numbers are nowhere near your’s, but I figure...”get it while you can.” None of us know how long we have left on this blue marble.
Right now my SS makes up about 50% of my income so any income tax I have to pay on those benefits is a hit.


38 posted on 11/08/2012 6:15:44 AM PST by Roccus
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To: Jumper

Starve the system as well. Hire “off the books” to deprive the regime of funding and of the employment statistics that would benefit them.


39 posted on 11/08/2012 6:15:44 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: tsowellfan

I dont agree. I trust God to handle it in His way and time. Not for me to join in with the blind. I stand firm against partaking in the destruction of our country.


40 posted on 11/08/2012 6:30:46 AM PST by freeB
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To: freeB

It’s people like you who will save this country.


41 posted on 11/08/2012 6:32:17 AM PST by tsowellfan
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To: carriage_hill
At 62, if I retire now, I get $1150/mo. At 65, I get $1625. At 67, I get $2350.

You have to calculate the difference over time and find out where your break even point falls. Five years, for example, at the difference between your 62 rate and your 67 rate. If you wait, how many years away is your break even? Do you reasonably expect to live that long?

42 posted on 11/08/2012 6:36:44 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed &water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: silverleaf

I’m also being careful of church donations, even though my church is overwhelmingly working conservatives. But still, we can get caught up in the guilt trip of “giving back” to the community. Well the community can put the cigarettes and beer down, stop buying lottery tickets, keep mass producing children without being married and take care of their own. There... i feel better now.


43 posted on 11/08/2012 6:39:25 AM PST by bella1 (As it was in the days of Lot.....)
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To: Jumper
The Cloward-Piven goal from the beginning was to "overwhelm the system."

You will merely be helping them achieve their goal.

44 posted on 11/08/2012 6:57:58 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the psychopath.)
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To: Betty Jane

” When you go shopping, or out to eat, talk to the help. Many of those people could use some help and probably are living on less income then the welfare recipients. They don’t ever get the donations. And you know they’re working. Leave a large tip, give them a gas card or grocery card or find out what they need or their kids want and surprise them with it. They will appreciate your gift and they won’t feel entitled to it.”

And you thought of this without the almighty government intrusion!!! What a novel idea!!!

This is where I feel most of our donations should ACTUALLY go. People who are trying their best to help themselves need help.

Thank you for stating this. If people are working hard, yet are not earning a lot, especially in this horrid economy, they will truly appreciate the gifts and feel encouraged to continue doing the right thing.


45 posted on 11/08/2012 7:09:16 AM PST by borntobeagle (Mr. Bean could do a better job!!!!)
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To: Jumper
Thread has been interesting. I have gotten some great responses and all with understood consequences. To everyone that posted in that vein I want to say (both pro and con):

I love your reply, and it should be mine as well for thinking it crazy; however in hindsight Bush giving Obama the initial QE Bailout fast tracked is the only thing that prevented this presidents administration from enacting Global Warming Treaties, shutting down US natural energy, and other spending on crusades. Knowing full well that a government program never dies, and that new ones constantly muscle in for funding... we who did not vote for it should take what is currently available in order to prevent the new crusades from finding new revenue.

46 posted on 11/08/2012 7:35:28 AM PST by Jumper
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To: Jumper
Thread has been interesting. I have gotten some great responses and all with understood consequences. To everyone that posted in that vein I want to say (both pro and con):

I love your reply, and it should be mine as well for thinking it crazy; however in hindsight Bush giving Obama the initial QE Bailout fast tracked is the only thing that prevented this presidents administration from enacting Global Warming Treaties, shutting down US natural energy, and other spending on crusades. Knowing full well that a government program never dies, and that new ones constantly muscle in for funding... we who did not vote for it should take what is currently available in order to prevent the new crusades from finding new revenue.

47 posted on 11/08/2012 7:35:39 AM PST by Jumper
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To: Jumper
Thread has been interesting. I have gotten some great responses and all with understood consequences. To everyone that posted in that vein I want to say (both pro and con):

I love your reply, and it should be mine as well for thinking it crazy; however in hindsight Bush giving Obama the initial QE Bailout fast tracked is the only thing that prevented this presidents administration from enacting Global Warming Treaties, shutting down US natural energy, and other spending on crusades. Knowing full well that a government program never dies, and that new ones constantly muscle in for funding... we who did not vote for it should take what is currently available in order to prevent the new crusades from finding new revenue.

48 posted on 11/08/2012 7:35:56 AM PST by Jumper
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To: Jumper

This is simply the Cloward-Piven strategy, and would only result in what Cloward and Liven wanted: more socialism. Don’t be stupid. Should the system be overloaded they will blame the market, and the people will believe them.

You imagine that if the producers become takers there’ll be nothing left to take. So what? Haven’t we always said equality of income is equality of poverty? We’ve seen this before. The population of the Soviet Union, Red China, etc. lived like slaves at subsistence level, if they weren’t politically connected or murdered, for decades and decades. Not that we’ll go so far here. But it will benefit you to know that there is no bottom, not really. To get to 91 Russia had to go through 20, 36, 42, and so on, bottoms that we can hardly even imagine.


49 posted on 11/08/2012 12:27:31 PM PST by Tublecane
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To: tsowellfan

“you paid into the system”

No I didn’t. I paid taxes, and that money was paid to someone else. There is no “system.” That’s only what they want you to think, and even they admit it’s a lie. You are a fool to think it. When you receive benefits all you’re doing is taking somebody else’s money. Yours is gone.


50 posted on 11/08/2012 12:30:58 PM PST by Tublecane
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