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We can't secede, we are Americans

Posted on 11/14/2012 4:25:19 PM PST by West Texas Chuck

Even, or maybe especially, here in Texas.

If it made any sense at all I would follow what my bumper sticker says. But we cannot separate from The Union. Our country is at risk and I say we have to stay and fight.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: secede; secession; texas; vanity
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Remember Texans what Colonel Travis wrote when he chose the heading "To the People of Texas and all Americans in the World" back on February 24, 1836.

I will not dishonor his words. We will stay and fight, just like at that little chapel down yonder in Bexar County.

Allow me to quote from "Animal House" when I say, "it ain't over until we say it is."

Another four years is gonna suck bigtime, but I got nowhere else to go. We stay and defend this beautiful country because of the honorable patriots before us.

If you didn't vote this past November 6 because you don't love Romney, then that is too bad for you. I was there, my wife was there, and my old momma was there too. Let us all commit to defend Old Glory the way any true Texan will naturally do for The Lone Star.

Just my $.02 worth of vanity. Over and out.

1 posted on 11/14/2012 4:25:23 PM PST by West Texas Chuck
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To: West Texas Chuck

A house divided against itself will not stand.


2 posted on 11/14/2012 4:28:48 PM PST by madison10
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To: madison10

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth...”


3 posted on 11/14/2012 4:29:40 PM PST by yadent
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To: West Texas Chuck

America has no value in-and-of herself. She has value only insofar as she continues to exist for the rights of her citizens. She has failed to do that, and the voting and demographic trends suggest that she will never be able to do that again. She has been dying since at least the 1930s. If She has a future, it is as some sort of unrecognizeable Frankenation with the economic and fiscal failures of Greece combined with the social chaos of Liberia or Ciudad Juarez.

Such an existance would be an insult to her memory. It’s time to let the lady pass on gracefully, and start over with something new.


4 posted on 11/14/2012 4:30:48 PM PST by altsehastiin
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To: yadent

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Revolution is Duty of the People

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af5KJ2aD8F0


5 posted on 11/14/2012 4:32:03 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: West Texas Chuck

Depends on you definition of fight.

Posting is not fighting, its sublimation.


6 posted on 11/14/2012 4:32:07 PM PST by NoLibZone (If the 911 NYC attacks occurred today, only one station would cover it.)
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To: madison10

Abe Lincoln’s party, the Republicans, replaced the Whigs.

Time for a new party? Prolly.

I’ve nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide. I’m here until TSA kicks in my front door. Or the turtles over there at the mountain bike trail eat me because I missed a turn and ended up in the creek.

FUBO.


7 posted on 11/14/2012 4:33:01 PM PST by West Texas Chuck (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. That should be a convenience store, not a Government Agency.)
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To: West Texas Chuck

That’s what the Torries said in 1776. They were wrong.


8 posted on 11/14/2012 4:33:11 PM PST by grumpa
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To: West Texas Chuck

Who’s to say a secession couldn’t occur where an ‘ORIGINAL America’ disavows the ‘CHANGED America’ lost to the ineligible President?


9 posted on 11/14/2012 4:33:18 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: West Texas Chuck

I didn’t leave the US. The US left me. I’m tired of paying every lazy ass’ bills and being called a racist for demanding they stop confiscating my income for that, and other equally ridiculous wastes of money.


10 posted on 11/14/2012 4:34:16 PM PST by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: West Texas Chuck

I support an economic form of secession.

States effectively going Galt. I’m still thinking one how it would work but basically I’m thinking that states could cut out the fed interference and sending only their fair share to federal government for strictly constitutional expenditures.


11 posted on 11/14/2012 4:34:39 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: West Texas Chuck

Democrats win by massive vote fraud every election, at every level. We can’t keep winning seats like that. At that, all we are winning are seats, not real power. Look at Boehner. He caved so fast I’m surprised a sink hole didn’t develop at his seat in the chamber.


12 posted on 11/14/2012 4:34:51 PM PST by wastedyears (I don't want to live on this planet anymore.)
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To: NoLibZone

Yeah, but I ain’t signing on to run away.

How about you?


13 posted on 11/14/2012 4:35:11 PM PST by West Texas Chuck (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. That should be a convenience store, not a Government Agency.)
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To: cripplecreek
I’m still thinking one how it would work but basically I’m thinking that states could cut out the fed interference and sending only their fair share to federal government for strictly constitutional expenditures. The feds collect their taxes directly from individuals and businesses. Are you suggesting that states arrest IRS agents when they come to visit their citizens?
14 posted on 11/14/2012 4:37:16 PM PST by altsehastiin
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To: cripplecreek

Yeah crip, you are totally righton there.

But we win against the Repubicans, as you well know. I don’t know what to do but stand and present.

Sorry for the vanity, this crap has been eating at me since last week. I had to say something.

Right or wrong, you FReepers have heard my opinion.


15 posted on 11/14/2012 4:38:45 PM PST by West Texas Chuck (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. That should be a convenience store, not a Government Agency.)
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To: West Texas Chuck
I agree. There will be no secession. Still I signed so the leftist bastard marxist in charge can hear our message.

Obama has underestimated the anger. 100,000 and counting expressing it.

16 posted on 11/14/2012 4:39:32 PM PST by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: West Texas Chuck

WE cant secede. WE are ALL AMERICANS.

Too much collectivism for my mind to grasp. I am an individual not part of a collective. I guess that is what makes me truly American.

The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.
That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was no such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And, no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.
The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession.
Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775–1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.


17 posted on 11/14/2012 4:39:53 PM PST by all the best (`~!)
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To: West Texas Chuck

There needs to be a new party, but right now anything new is by its nature—weak. We cannot be Republicans, as they tend to lack courage and only play at winning. That party is where we have hitched our wagon because we sure as Hades do not want to be Democrats.

We cannot even agree on what a “conservative” is to MAKE a party. Cohesiveness amongst ourselves would be a start. We’re too busy blaming each other to see the TRUE enemy. Not necessarily Obama, he is the result maybe, but he to quote: “did not get there on his own.”


18 posted on 11/14/2012 4:40:39 PM PST by madison10
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To: West Texas Chuck

Thanks for 2c of rationalism that is much needed.

Of course, I don’t really put much credence in people putting their faith in and thinking an internet petition means anything.


19 posted on 11/14/2012 4:40:43 PM PST by mnehring
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To: West Texas Chuck

Do you view it as fleeing a country or creating a country?

No doubt that since so few supported the American break with England, that question came up often.


20 posted on 11/14/2012 4:40:58 PM PST by NoLibZone (If the 911 NYC attacks occurred today, only one station would cover it.)
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To: West Texas Chuck
I hope you enjoy being a slave for the 47%.

This country will never be America again. Secession is the ONLY solution.

Impeach the kenyan or secession.


21 posted on 11/14/2012 4:41:52 PM PST by ex91B10 (We've tried the Soap Box,the Ballot Box and the Jury Box; ONE BOX LEFT!)
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To: NoLibZone; West Texas Chuck
Posting is not fighting

Neither is internet petitions. That is just one level above sharing Kony pictures and thinking you are saving children by doing so.

22 posted on 11/14/2012 4:42:38 PM PST by mnehring
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To: wastedyears
"Democrats win by massive vote fraud every election, at every level. We can’t keep winning seats like that. At that, all we are winning are seats, not real power. Look at Boehner. He caved so fast I’m surprised a sink hole didn’t develop at his seat in the chamber."

I can disagree with nothing you say. I just got nowhere to run to.

I have lived a good long life, voted many times for many pols. I have nowhere else to go but my beloved Texas. Bury me here.

If the government don't want me, then we are even. I don't want them too.

23 posted on 11/14/2012 4:42:48 PM PST by West Texas Chuck (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. That should be a convenience store, not a Government Agency.)
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To: yadent
Thank you!

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth...”


24 posted on 11/14/2012 4:43:16 PM PST by CommieCutter
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To: West Texas Chuck

There’s literally nowhere to run. The only question is how long are you going to take it.


25 posted on 11/14/2012 4:46:21 PM PST by DManA ( you)
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To: West Texas Chuck

Be a good American Producer Slave:

Pay higher taxes
Accept you job loss
Take the Food Stamps
Pay for someone else’s Healthcare
Take our Guns
Teach our kid socialism is good
Take you internet
High Gasoline Prices
Gay Marriage
Obama Phones
Collective Property

Yeah, we got a lot to look forward to until the Dictator has full authority to make our lives even more miserable. By all means, let’s fight with words here on FR - that will show them! (sarc)


26 posted on 11/14/2012 4:47:10 PM PST by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: madison10
A house divided against itself will not stand.

As will a house infested with termites unless they are exterminated in time.................

27 posted on 11/14/2012 4:48:19 PM PST by varon (11-06-2012 dob United Socialist Ghettos of America (USGA))
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To: West Texas Chuck

Standing firm behind an intent to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies should not be termed “secession”. It is those who have betrayed that principle who have left the union of sovereign states and people.


28 posted on 11/14/2012 4:48:39 PM PST by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: West Texas Chuck

I am no longer a “patriot.” The commie pigs have bastardized the word.

Think of this: I am now a LOYALIST. Loyal to the Constitution that was the root of this miracle known as America.

In the days of revolt from the king, “loyalist” was a term similar to Tory.

Now, I am LOYAL to the Constitution.

I guess that makes me a “Loyalist.”

After being drafted, I Swore An Oath, TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, AGAINST ALL ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

I never renounced that oath. Communists are pigs hell bent on the destruction of the Constitution, and our country.

I guess that makes me an extremist.

So be it.

Bring it on MOFOs!


29 posted on 11/14/2012 4:50:20 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimz, my handle is a Hate Crime. And I just Hope they don't like it!)
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To: West Texas Chuck

If the federal government develops renewed respect for the 10th Amendment, no state would want to secede, because they would have such increased autonomy they wouldn’t want to.

The 10th Amendment was assaulted and all but neutered after the Civil War. since then it’s been a gradual and continuing encroachment on it and the power of states to support a growing federal monster.

Well we’re about out of money. The feds cant bribe states with deficit funded cash anymore.

That will create a vacuum that states reasserting the 10th Amendment can and should fill.

That’s the best way forward for America.


30 posted on 11/14/2012 4:52:35 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: West Texas Chuck

The only State remotely capable of seceding is Texas and not like the way you might think. In about 25 years, they will be seceding as Nuevo Republica de Tejas, a drug-proxy of Mexico.


31 posted on 11/14/2012 4:53:13 PM PST by sagar
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To: madison10

“A house divided against itself will not stand.”

Exactly. And the nation is irretrievably divided unless our half surrenders to the socialist leviathan.

Count me and my three sons who are among the many not prepared to do that


32 posted on 11/14/2012 4:54:16 PM PST by TheWryFederalist
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To: TheZMan

As a young woman on the brink of entering college, I couldn’t agree more. I plan on becoming a teacher and goodness knows that they don’t get paid crap. It makes me sick to think that someday my hard earned money will be going towards some idiot who can’t get off his a$$ or some other stupid cause and that I’LL be the bad person for objecting to it.


33 posted on 11/14/2012 4:54:20 PM PST by phantom1
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To: CommieCutter

So...rewrite it for today.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.—Such has been the patient sufferance of these 50 United States of America; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present President of the United States is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has appointed czars, of his choosing to be over a free people, and has not adhered to current law

He has passed an onerous law that will enslave ALL Americans with its rules and regulations.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, using our various skin colors to create a division among a once cohesive people.

A President whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

We have reminded our fellow Americans of the tyranny that is to come. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Free Conservatives of America, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Fifty United States of America, solemnly publish and declare, That these are, Fifty United States of America and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.


34 posted on 11/14/2012 4:56:16 PM PST by madison10
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To: West Texas Chuck

All these secession petitions.

WHAT ARE NEEDED ARE PETITIONS FROM THE STATES ASKING FOR THE RIGHT TO SUCCEED.


35 posted on 11/14/2012 4:57:48 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: West Texas Chuck

I think that the seceding states would still be the real America.


36 posted on 11/14/2012 5:00:04 PM PST by Mr. Blond
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To: sagar
In about 25 years, they will be seceding as Nuevo Republica de Tejas, a drug-proxy of Mexico.

Only if we sit on our hands and wait for it to happen, like the original poster suggests.

37 posted on 11/14/2012 5:04:25 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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38 posted on 11/14/2012 5:05:25 PM PST by mnehring
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To: Mr. Blond
I think that the seceding states would still be the real America.

I think seceding states would turn into a big mess. They'd be fighting over who was supposed to be in charge 10 seconds after seceding. There would be no cohesiveness and the remaining states would tax the crap out of the separatists.

39 posted on 11/14/2012 5:06:54 PM PST by madison10
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To: West Texas Chuck

We are Americans much like Zel Miller thought he was still a democrat.

The party left him.

The country left us.


40 posted on 11/14/2012 5:10:17 PM PST by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: West Texas Chuck

The average American today doesn’t have the fortitude to secede from their Home Owners Association.

No states are leaving the union.
The secession talk is just a fantasy being kicked around by some very disappointed voters.


41 posted on 11/14/2012 5:10:56 PM PST by snarkybob (')
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To: West Texas Chuck

This country as it was founded began to end in the late 19th century with the decline accelerating since 1913. The union, as was founded, is now dead. When this asshole Obama states that government is “the one thing we all belong to” (he has it exactly backwards, as usual), and people vote for him, it’s over.


42 posted on 11/14/2012 5:27:07 PM PST by Smber (The smallest minority is the individual. Get the government off my back.)
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To: phantom1

” I plan on becoming a teacher and goodness knows that they don’t get paid crap.”

Nothing personal, but the above line is simply false. Considering the salaries of teachers, and the abysmal competence of the graduates of programs under the “expert educators”, a case can be made that teachers are overpaid.

Indeed, they and their UNIONS could be considered to be engaging in i proper enrichment.


43 posted on 11/14/2012 5:28:34 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: GladesGuru

Addendum to post 43:
“engaging in i proper enrichment” should be
“engaging in improper enrichment”.


44 posted on 11/14/2012 5:30:55 PM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: madison10
I think seceding states would turn into a big mess.

Texas would be the 14th largest economy in the world the day it seceded before it started keeping the 80 cents of every dollar that gets sent to Washington. And I seriously doubt Texas would put up with unfettered illegal immigration, massive entitlement programs and inner city poverty pimps busing ineligible voters to the polls.

There would be no cohesiveness and the remaining states would tax the crap out of the separatists.

I'm thinking your not understanding the concept. Taxing across national boundaries is pretty hard to pull off.

45 posted on 11/14/2012 5:33:54 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: West Texas Chuck
During the Cold War, some people said the country would fall apart if we didn't have foreign enemies that we could unite against. I didn't buy that then. It looked like those people were denying the real threat from the Soviets and claiming that the threat was just made up by people who wanted to keep the masses in line, but now the Cold War is over, the Soviet Union is gone and the country is quite divided, with people talking secession after every presidential election.

Whether or not we need an external enemy to hate and organize against to be united, I suspect we need the United States to be American. What I'm saying is that a lot of people espouse "American values" because we are American citizens. We've been brought up to believe those values and have seen how successful freedom and responsibility have made our country.

Somebody will doubtless say that truth is truth, freedom is freedom, and that if the country we live in allows us freedom it could be as small as Liechtenstein or Monaco. I'm making an empirical argument, though, not a moral or abstractly rationalistic one. For a lot of people, if they see the country break up, it changes something for them, it weakens their commitment to older values.

Break up the country and there's bound to be a feeling that in some sense the country -- and its ideals -- have failed. One could argue against that and say it shouldn't be so, but I suspect that the feeling of defeat will be a lot stronger than any rationalizations about how much better things will be in the former United States once we've gotten rid of Washington DC's power over us.

Some people will say that they are Texans or Southerners or Californians or Vermonters rather than Americans, but a lot of those distinctions make sense in the context of the United States. You may be a Texan against New Yorkers or a Californian against Mississippi, but if we were in different countries and you or I couldn't vote in every election against some other part of the country, those convictions wouldn't be as strong. Politics would reorganize itself around differences within states and regions rather than differences between states and regions. It might be hard to recognize today's political and ideological landscape after the dissolution of the union.

If we were a half dozen countries in a world of about 200 other countries, if we weren't part of a large and powerful country that could hold out against foreign trends, the tendency would probably be to assimilate to international norms. Once different parts of the country become independent they'll all start to flow in the same direction that European countries do, some faster, some slower, some sooner some later, but the bulwark against those changes will be gone.

It's hard for me to express all this, but I'd caution against thinking that everybody is like the most ideologically committed among us or that if you rope off the right people in the right area you can resist what we see going on around us every day. Real people are a part of that world that we see around us and reflect the behavior that they see in life and on television. Changing borders isn't going to change any of that and make people different from what they are. It could even make people worse, by doing away with an important cornerstone of people's convictions.

46 posted on 11/14/2012 5:37:53 PM PST by x
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To: West Texas Chuck
> We Can't Secede, We Are Americans <

Exactly the point.

Seceding is how America came to be; it seceded from that tyranny that was English rule. Now that our present Government has become that same tyranny we left perhaps it is time to ‘Renew The Tree Of Liberty’.

And the ‘house divided’? Those who choose to break off from the beast would surely join together to reform - much as the 13 States did in the 19th century - but this time the greater weight of strength and resources would be to a new Republic, obedient to the will of the people.

Tis a shame it isn't going to happen.

47 posted on 11/14/2012 5:38:51 PM PST by Ed Story
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To: hopespringseternal

I was speaking of tariffs to take things across borders. It would be insane, the seceded states would have higher tariffs than China to take items across.


48 posted on 11/14/2012 5:42:09 PM PST by madison10
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To: West Texas Chuck

“The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a ‘rebellion’ is a gross abuse of language.” — President Davis


49 posted on 11/14/2012 5:43:24 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: GladesGuru

I should have been more specific. I’m planning on majoring in early childhood education, meaning that I’ll probably end up working at almost minimum wage depending on which preschool or daycare I get hired at. As for teachers being overpaid, even though I agree with what you say about the unions, it makes me angry that many GOOD teachers in small school districts get paid a fraction of what some horrible teachers in large school districts get paid. Yet at the same time we have politicians, actors, musicians, etc. who are paid millions to shove their liberal agenda down our throats and “entertain” us. If you ask me, that’s pretty sad.


50 posted on 11/14/2012 5:45:40 PM PST by phantom1
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