Skip to comments.With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In
Posted on 11/14/2012 4:58:42 PM PST by Kartographer
Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.
Since the Civil War, its been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. This is un-American, I heard one individual say, This is treasonous to even talk about it.
Well, they dont know their history very well because if they think about it, its an American tradition. Its very American to talk about secession. Thats how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.
What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, Oh no. Secession is treasonous.
(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...
The only rights you have are the ones you are willing to fight for.
Then Maine seceded from Massachusetts, Kentucky seceded from Virginia, Tennessee seceded from North Carolina, and Vermont seceded from both New Hampshire and New York.
If Texas pulled this off there would be no such highway as I-20 east.It would be I-20 west 4 lanes wide.
No State will be allowed to Secede without they are willing to fight.
It doesn’t matter about the right today any more than it mattered in the First Civil War.
If States want to Secede they better be ready to fight.
If they aren’t they may as well sit back and wait for the United States to fall apart, then take action.
No kidding...I’d move in a heartbeat. Probably wouldn’t have to worry about a job as my employer would likely move as well.
Zero corporate taxes. Huge money influx. Eliminate welfare. Secure the borders.
Texas could pave I-20 with gold.
We’re in the collapse the system stage. Once that happens all bets are off.
Wonder if some other states would see the benefit and follow suit.
Practically speaking, secession is hard because there is no “format” for how to secede in an orderly manner. So it would seem that the way to make secession a serious issue would be to suggest that a single state resolve a constitutional amendment to make secession and similar state rights an orderly process.
Then that state ask other states to join in passing their own resolutions affirming the right of states to peacefully secede. Such a resolution is not their demanding to secede, just creating a process by which it might happen.
A constitutional amendment to that effect.
I'm in MA, so I'm doomed.
I understand the primary general point Ron Paul is making, why support the bankruptcy of other less frugal states, when your own state is genuinely striving to make ends meet and keep it’s own budget balanced. Why does everyone have to support California’s lack of productivity?
I agree. I’ll also give Paul credit for not changing his position on secession one iota. At least the man has consistency.
Presuming one ignores Texas' formal, legal, renunciation of the right of secession about a 146 years ago. Perhaps Ron can lead a campaign to renounce the renunciation. It's a rather silly conversation.
Nh is the only state left with the right of citizens to revolt. Article10 of the nh state constitution. Free starters came here partly for this reason.
18 states had similar provisions but sadly gave them up.
President Davis CSA
I believe according to 1869 supreme court case an individual state is not permitted to Secede,
But a group of states are.
Going by declaration of independence only one state is needed, or a town for that matter.
If your seceding you would most likely view US supreme courts authority as any other nation would.
The US would most likely want their nuclear weapons back that are stored in Texas. Ukraine gave theirs back to Russia 5 years later.
That would fail with enough people leaving their jobs .
How so? According to who or what?
I'm pretty sure secession by a group of states would be perceived as even more of a threat than secession by a single state.
The left flirted with secession in 2004. There are plenty of leftists today who would welcome it because the red states are still an impediment to their plans.
Besides, you don't understand how the left thinks. Reid is asking for 2.4 trillion in debt ceiling increases. Does that strike you as someone who is concerned with the revenue side of the budget? Ultimately they want to do away with the concept of national debt and just print the money they want to do the things they want to do. They don't understand that currency is ultimately backed up by productivity.
If they did, they wouldn't be leftists.
Ron is so true blue to the Constitution, as in strict adherence, that he makes even conservatives squirm uncomfortably, an he is correct to the letter, on that and every other fiscal question when its placed side by side to the Constitution. Even, the hard stuff on foreign policy, that we think we don’t like, let’s face it, isn’t in the Constitution and funding our enemies to boot is just a cover for moving our money outside of the country in the most expeditious way possible without having to be questioned. That’s the way we’ve always done it.
Many think Ron Paul is crazy because he is different. Anytime someone around here says anything positive about him they get clobbered. I see it this way, Ron Paul has 90% good ideals and 10% off the wall while Obama has 100% bad ideals.
Heck if Ron Paul lied about the 10% bad ideals he would be President.
I have respect for the congressman. As I said, he’s consistent, and he can argue most of his points well. I’m not a fan of his fans, however. His rabid, cult-like following is... disturbing... to say the least. What’s more, most of them are all in for the crazy stuff, but couldn’t tell you a thing about the FED other than “we should end it!”.
In my opinion, Ron Paul should be given a position as a lead economic adviser in a future conservative admin. I know he’s retiring, but he would come out for his country I think. If more conservatives were as immovable in their convictions as Ron Paul is, I think we would have a much stronger party. All this talk of “moderating” is sickening.
This isn't the 1860s, it's the 21st century. There will be no bloody civil war against any state that decides to secede.
At the end of WWII, there were only 92 countries on the planet. Today, there are 195. Nearly all of those new countries seceded from their former unions without war or bloodshed.
Any people have an innate right to remove themselves from a political union which has become despotic. If any one of the several states elects to choose this path in the near future, I expect at least a dozen more to follow in rapid succession.
This, I believe, will in turn, be a de facto nullification of the treasonous central government, thereby bringing about a swift demise of the entire infernal, corrupt apparatus which has been eating the very soul out of this country for over a century. And that would then allow the re-establishment of our beloved union, with a resultant return to the Constitution and founding principles which originally gave birth to it.
As my dear grandma used to tell me, you've gotta break a few eggs to make a cake.
I hear they got wicked good chili in Texas.
Come and get them
You are thinking like a right-winger. The average democrat raids the wealthy because they are there, not because they understand that they are the ones creating wealth. They believe in redistribution of wealth moreso than income. They don't understand that once you break up concentrations of wealth you no longer have any income. There are plenty of them suggesting that Obama kick the evil (wealthy) republicans/red states out of "their" country.
It reminds me of the old joke about the Soviet Union and New Zealand.
Besides, at the rate they are going it won't be long before there won't be anything to secede from.
I hear they've got a sh*tload of illegal Mexicans.
You are very Naive if you think Obama is going to allow any State that wish’s to secede to do so without a fight.
He will have the military and the UN in there with both feet.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. Paul's lack of historical knowledge is shocking.
While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of the succesionist petitioners, I also realize these petitions are totally symbollic & will not garner serious consideration from the leftist government. But there is something these petitioners can do that WILL strike fear into the hearts of the socialist left.
Never have I seen such widespread & blatant voter fraud. Have we become so weak, such sheep that we accept our own demise so meekly? I call upon you, beg of you, to make know that this will not be allowed in this great country. A country that has stood as a shining beacon of hope to people everywhere. Do something that will make a difference. We must challange this malfeasance. If you must petition then petition for investigations, for recounts. If as many people & states do this as have signed the succession petition THAT is something even they can’t ignore.
Chili is the state dish.
It is also the origin of many of the common Mexican dishes Americans eat, Tex-Mex.
I’m all for secession.
We could end up with 2 countries.
One composed of republicans and conservatives.
And one composed of liberals and progressives and communists.
The republican/conservative country could remain the U.S.A.
The liberal/progressive/communist country could be named “ASS” or American Socialist States.
Nonsense, Paul couldn’t even win a statewide office in Texas, he was never serious about being a president, it was all about fund raising from a small, but devoted fan base, a fan base of such bizarre extremes from each other, that it proves that it is just a personality cult.
You see his devotees everywhere, at liberal sites like DU, at conservatives site like here, at hate sites and Muslim sites, his followers are all over the spectrum.
I’d say boycott and tariff the Northeast. Starve ‘em, they’re the damn beast here.
Texas has the right to divide itself into four additional states. That is a hole card the Kenyan doesn’t like. Ten senators would really piss ‘em off.
Better start thinking of what a new Government would be like—Look to the Declaration of Independence for cause and effect. Still, I think it is early for this—but if Obama oversteps his bounds (and he will) this may well be forced upon the states. Let us hope a new Robert E. Lee can come forward. It will be a fight all right—but if the free states can get some nukes!!!!
Sorry, but you're the naive one, if you think he's got the guts or the will to militarily oppose millions of armed citizens who want nothing more than to peacefully dissolve a political alliance.
He didn't have the courage to order the military to save our people in Benghazi when they were under direct attack. What makes you think he would have the courage to send American troops against millions of peaceful American citizens? And do you really think our troops would obey?
First, how many of the people who have signed these petitions would be willing to sign on if they believed that by doing so they faced the likelihood of being drawn and quartered if the movement fails? Those were the stakes faced by those who signed our Declaration. I suspect that most of the folks signing these online secession petitions are treating it like they might a grocery store petition to repeal a motorcycle helmet law. How many of these people are really prepared to die over this issue? How many are really just blowing off steam and relying on the First Amendment to save them from a traitor's execution?
Second, believing as I do that this movement is likely to go the way of the hula hoop, will the conservative movement be damaged if it becomes associated with what is inherently an expression of hostility to the United States of America? Isn't that what crippled the Democrats after what they did in the sixties and early seventies to oppose the USA's foreign policy? Are conservatives permanently immune to any taint unpatriotism?
I would have a lot more respect for the secession movement if I thought that a significant number of people were really prepared to pledge their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. Right now, it feels more like another "cool thing to do." If it doesn't work, I hope that the conservatives don't get left holding the bag.
” - - - there is no format for how to secede in an orderly manner.”
Google “State Constitutional Conventions” for THE way to secede without the bloodshed of our First Civil War. Permission from the US Federal Government is not needed.
It is a tedious process, however.
I favor holding these State Constitutional Conventions, splitting up the now Bankrupt USA into economically viable regions of States, with each Region taking their proportionate share of the former National Debt.
For example: one such Region might be the XL Pipeline States: North Dakota to Texas; another Region might be the 5 States whose shores are on the Pacific Ocean, etc.
The Communist Obamanation eventually will destroy America, so the wise thing to do is to save one’s own State by secession through State Constitutional Conventions.
Ron Paul does have his lucid moments. I can’t see secession working unless a lot of States with shared borders did it. The government would actually decide to control the borders of isolated States to prevent them from engaging in commerce - they would put up a siege like no siege in history.
I could say it may be possible that should key states secede and then a blue state starts having certain shortages like fuel, fresh fruit, meat and even tourism and the people of that blue state decide to leave then the USSA led by Her Obama would and could lock down the exit of the peoples, in effect a Berlin Wall in America.
And then we may find red states airlifting cargo into red held portions of a blue state. Again the communists in America want the whole pie, because they cannot sell their propaganda of sharing the pie if there is only the crust left.
What makes you think they will be our troops.
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