Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

With Over 100,000 Supporting Texas Secession, Ron Paul Weighs In
ZeroHedge ^ | 11/14/12 | Tyler Durden

Posted on 11/14/2012 4:58:42 PM PST by Kartographer

Actually, after the Civil War, nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession, but it is a very legitimate issue to debate because all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Since the Civil War, it’s been sort of a dead issue, but he brought it up. It stirred the media and believe me, it really stirred some of the liberal media where they started really screaming about what is going on here. “This is un-American”, I heard one individual say, “This is treasonous to even talk about it.”

Well, they don’t know their history very well because if they think about it, it’s an American tradition. It’s very American to talk about secession. That’s how we came into being. Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country, so secession is very much an American principle.

What about all the strong endorsements we have given over the past decade or two of those republics that seceded from the Soviet system? We were delighted with this. We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: ronpaul; secession; texas
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last
I am in no way a Ron Paul fan and except for his financial stand mostly I can stand his positions, but I must admit he makes a good case here.
1 posted on 11/14/2012 4:58:45 PM PST by Kartographer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
nobody believes there is a so-called right to secession,

The only rights you have are the ones you are willing to fight for.

2 posted on 11/14/2012 5:01:51 PM PST by DManA ( you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
Thirteen colonies seceded from the British and established a new country...

Then Maine seceded from Massachusetts, Kentucky seceded from Virginia, Tennessee seceded from North Carolina, and Vermont seceded from both New Hampshire and New York.

3 posted on 11/14/2012 5:03:37 PM PST by SeeSharp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

If Texas pulled this off there would be no such highway as I-20 east.It would be I-20 west 4 lanes wide.


4 posted on 11/14/2012 5:06:54 PM PST by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Amen Brother.

No State will be allowed to Secede without they are willing to fight.
It doesn’t matter about the right today any more than it mattered in the First Civil War.

If States want to Secede they better be ready to fight.

If they aren’t they may as well sit back and wait for the United States to fall apart, then take action.


5 posted on 11/14/2012 5:10:21 PM PST by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: HANG THE EXPENSE

No kidding...I’d move in a heartbeat. Probably wouldn’t have to worry about a job as my employer would likely move as well.


6 posted on 11/14/2012 5:10:51 PM PST by PhiloBedo (You gotta roll with the punches and get with what's real.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: HANG THE EXPENSE

Zero corporate taxes. Huge money influx. Eliminate welfare. Secure the borders.

Texas could pave I-20 with gold.


7 posted on 11/14/2012 5:12:08 PM PST by TigerClaws
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward–Piven_strategy#section_1

We’re in the collapse the system stage. Once that happens all bets are off.


8 posted on 11/14/2012 5:13:00 PM PST by TigerClaws
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigerClaws

Wonder if some other states would see the benefit and follow suit.


9 posted on 11/14/2012 5:18:40 PM PST by C. Edmund Wright ("WTF?: How Karl Rove and the Establishment Lost....Again")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Practically speaking, secession is hard because there is no “format” for how to secede in an orderly manner. So it would seem that the way to make secession a serious issue would be to suggest that a single state resolve a constitutional amendment to make secession and similar state rights an orderly process.

Then that state ask other states to join in passing their own resolutions affirming the right of states to peacefully secede. Such a resolution is not their demanding to secede, just creating a process by which it might happen.

A constitutional amendment to that effect.


10 posted on 11/14/2012 5:18:48 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA
The power to secede is not discussed in the Constitution. But all powers not discussed in the Constitution are reserved to the states or to the people. As you indicate -- the power and right is there for the taking, but we'll have to fight for it.

I'm in MA, so I'm doomed.

11 posted on 11/14/2012 5:22:01 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

I understand the primary general point Ron Paul is making, why support the bankruptcy of other less frugal states, when your own state is genuinely striving to make ends meet and keep it’s own budget balanced. Why does everyone have to support California’s lack of productivity?


12 posted on 11/14/2012 5:22:01 PM PST by Morpheus2009
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

I agree. I’ll also give Paul credit for not changing his position on secession one iota. At least the man has consistency.


13 posted on 11/14/2012 5:23:32 PM PST by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
The left will never let their slaves secede that is why there is all the “outrage”.
14 posted on 11/14/2012 5:25:19 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TigerClaws
Correct!!!
15 posted on 11/14/2012 5:27:35 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
I am in no way a Ron Paul fan and except for his financial stand mostly I can stand his positions, but I must admit he makes a good case here.

Presuming one ignores Texas' formal, legal, renunciation of the right of secession about a 146 years ago. Perhaps Ron can lead a campaign to renounce the renunciation. It's a rather silly conversation.

16 posted on 11/14/2012 5:29:49 PM PST by SJackson (none of this suggests there are hostile feelings for the US in Egypt, Victoria Nuland, State Dept)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Nh is the only state left with the right of citizens to revolt. Article10 of the nh state constitution. Free starters came here partly for this reason.
18 states had similar provisions but sadly gave them up.


17 posted on 11/14/2012 5:34:24 PM PST by Article10 (Roger That)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Article10
"The withdrawal of a State from a league has no revolutionary or insurrectionary characteristic. The government of the State remains unchanged as to all internal affairs. It is only its external or confederate relations that are altered. To term this action of a Sovereign a 'rebellion' is a gross abuse of language."

                 President Davis CSA

18 posted on 11/14/2012 5:37:52 PM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Venturer

I believe according to 1869 supreme court case an individual state is not permitted to Secede,
But a group of states are.

Going by declaration of independence only one state is needed, or a town for that matter.
If your seceding you would most likely view US supreme courts authority as any other nation would.
The US would most likely want their nuclear weapons back that are stored in Texas. Ukraine gave theirs back to Russia 5 years later.


19 posted on 11/14/2012 5:39:04 PM PST by Morris70
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: TigerClaws

That would fail with enough people leaving their jobs .


20 posted on 11/14/2012 5:41:43 PM PST by Morris70
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Morris70
I believe according to 1869 supreme court case an individual state is not permitted to Secede, But a group of states are.

How so? According to who or what?

I'm pretty sure secession by a group of states would be perceived as even more of a threat than secession by a single state.

21 posted on 11/14/2012 5:44:59 PM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Nuc 1.1
The left will never let their slaves secede that is why there is all the “outrage”.

The left flirted with secession in 2004. There are plenty of leftists today who would welcome it because the red states are still an impediment to their plans.

Besides, you don't understand how the left thinks. Reid is asking for 2.4 trillion in debt ceiling increases. Does that strike you as someone who is concerned with the revenue side of the budget? Ultimately they want to do away with the concept of national debt and just print the money they want to do the things they want to do. They don't understand that currency is ultimately backed up by productivity.

If they did, they wouldn't be leftists.

22 posted on 11/14/2012 5:47:46 PM PST by hopespringseternal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
3 part video of the TEXAS NATIONALIST MOVEMENT meeting that was held last night 11-13-12 in Frisco Texas.
23 posted on 11/14/2012 5:48:20 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Ron is so true blue to the Constitution, as in strict adherence, that he makes even conservatives squirm uncomfortably, an he is correct to the letter, on that and every other fiscal question when its placed side by side to the Constitution. Even, the hard stuff on foreign policy, that we think we don’t like, let’s face it, isn’t in the Constitution and funding our enemies to boot is just a cover for moving our money outside of the country in the most expeditious way possible without having to be questioned. That’s the way we’ve always done it.


24 posted on 11/14/2012 5:51:44 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon

Many think Ron Paul is crazy because he is different. Anytime someone around here says anything positive about him they get clobbered. I see it this way, Ron Paul has 90% good ideals and 10% off the wall while Obama has 100% bad ideals.

Heck if Ron Paul lied about the 10% bad ideals he would be President.


25 posted on 11/14/2012 5:54:28 PM PST by Orange1998 (Please DO NOT PRESS CTRL W)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Orange1998

I have respect for the congressman. As I said, he’s consistent, and he can argue most of his points well. I’m not a fan of his fans, however. His rabid, cult-like following is... disturbing... to say the least. What’s more, most of them are all in for the crazy stuff, but couldn’t tell you a thing about the FED other than “we should end it!”.

In my opinion, Ron Paul should be given a position as a lead economic adviser in a future conservative admin. I know he’s retiring, but he would come out for his country I think. If more conservatives were as immovable in their convictions as Ron Paul is, I think we would have a much stronger party. All this talk of “moderating” is sickening.


26 posted on 11/14/2012 6:04:46 PM PST by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Venturer
No State will be allowed to Secede without they are willing to fight. It doesn’t matter about the right today any more than it mattered in the First Civil War.

This isn't the 1860s, it's the 21st century. There will be no bloody civil war against any state that decides to secede.

At the end of WWII, there were only 92 countries on the planet. Today, there are 195. Nearly all of those new countries seceded from their former unions without war or bloodshed.

Any people have an innate right to remove themselves from a political union which has become despotic. If any one of the several states elects to choose this path in the near future, I expect at least a dozen more to follow in rapid succession.

This, I believe, will in turn, be a de facto nullification of the treasonous central government, thereby bringing about a swift demise of the entire infernal, corrupt apparatus which has been eating the very soul out of this country for over a century. And that would then allow the re-establishment of our beloved union, with a resultant return to the Constitution and founding principles which originally gave birth to it.

As my dear grandma used to tell me, you've gotta break a few eggs to make a cake.

27 posted on 11/14/2012 6:22:32 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
We never said, “Oh no. Secession is treasonous”.

Actually, plenty did. Patrick Henry's famous response?

"If this be treason, let's make the most of it!"
28 posted on 11/14/2012 6:23:35 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy
I'm in MA, so I'm doomed.

You might be able to sneak into Texas as an illegal alien. Try to drop the accent and don't talk about the Red Sox.
29 posted on 11/14/2012 6:27:39 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (There is no salvation in politics.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: hopespringseternal
Allow me to rephrase. We are their slaves. The will never let us go. Some one has to keep them in the lifestyle they are accustomed to. And supply the wealth to bribe their voters. Until the dims become the dictators. Which is not too far away. Probably before the next election.
30 posted on 11/14/2012 6:28:34 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Sivana

I hear they got wicked good chili in Texas.


31 posted on 11/14/2012 6:34:44 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Morris70

Come and get them


32 posted on 11/14/2012 6:36:04 PM PST by nomobs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Nuc 1.1
Some one has to keep them in the lifestyle they are accustomed to. And supply the wealth to bribe their voters.

You are thinking like a right-winger. The average democrat raids the wealthy because they are there, not because they understand that they are the ones creating wealth. They believe in redistribution of wealth moreso than income. They don't understand that once you break up concentrations of wealth you no longer have any income. There are plenty of them suggesting that Obama kick the evil (wealthy) republicans/red states out of "their" country.

It reminds me of the old joke about the Soviet Union and New Zealand.

Besides, at the rate they are going it won't be long before there won't be anything to secede from.

33 posted on 11/14/2012 6:42:06 PM PST by hopespringseternal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy; Dr. Sivana
I hear they got wicked good chili in Texas.

I hear they've got a sh*tload of illegal Mexicans.

34 posted on 11/14/2012 6:45:20 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Windflier

You are very Naive if you think Obama is going to allow any State that wish’s to secede to do so without a fight.

He will have the military and the UN in there with both feet.


35 posted on 11/14/2012 7:06:15 PM PST by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
all of the states that came into the Union before the Civil War believed they have a right to secede and New England in the early part of the 19th century actually considered it, and nobody questioned them about whether they had the right to do it or not.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Paul's lack of historical knowledge is shocking.

36 posted on 11/14/2012 7:12:36 PM PST by iowamark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA

While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of the succesionist petitioners, I also realize these petitions are totally symbollic & will not garner serious consideration from the leftist government. But there is something these petitioners can do that WILL strike fear into the hearts of the socialist left.
Never have I seen such widespread & blatant voter fraud. Have we become so weak, such sheep that we accept our own demise so meekly? I call upon you, beg of you, to make know that this will not be allowed in this great country. A country that has stood as a shining beacon of hope to people everywhere. Do something that will make a difference. We must challange this malfeasance. If you must petition then petition for investigations, for recounts. If as many people & states do this as have signed the succession petition THAT is something even they can’t ignore.


37 posted on 11/14/2012 7:25:59 PM PST by Deodoto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ClearCase_guy

Chili is the state dish.

It is also the origin of many of the common Mexican dishes Americans eat, Tex-Mex.


38 posted on 11/14/2012 7:29:14 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

I’m all for secession.

We could end up with 2 countries.

One composed of republicans and conservatives.

And one composed of liberals and progressives and communists.

The republican/conservative country could remain the U.S.A.

The liberal/progressive/communist country could be named “ASS” or American Socialist States.


39 posted on 11/14/2012 7:32:11 PM PST by adorno
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Orange1998

Nonsense, Paul couldn’t even win a statewide office in Texas, he was never serious about being a president, it was all about fund raising from a small, but devoted fan base, a fan base of such bizarre extremes from each other, that it proves that it is just a personality cult.

You see his devotees everywhere, at liberal sites like DU, at conservatives site like here, at hate sites and Muslim sites, his followers are all over the spectrum.


40 posted on 11/14/2012 7:35:51 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: adorno

I’d say boycott and tariff the Northeast. Starve ‘em, they’re the damn beast here.


41 posted on 11/14/2012 7:42:19 PM PST by txhurl (Once you go Asian, you never miss an equation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Texas has the right to divide itself into four additional states. That is a hole card the Kenyan doesn’t like. Ten senators would really piss ‘em off.

https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ref/abouttx/annexation/march1845.html


42 posted on 11/14/2012 7:53:32 PM PST by secondamendmentkid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Venturer

Better start thinking of what a new Government would be like—Look to the Declaration of Independence for cause and effect. Still, I think it is early for this—but if Obama oversteps his bounds (and he will) this may well be forced upon the states. Let us hope a new Robert E. Lee can come forward. It will be a fight all right—but if the free states can get some nukes!!!!


43 posted on 11/14/2012 8:48:26 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Venturer
You are very Naive if you think Obama is going to allow any State that wish’s to secede to do so without a fight. He will have the military and the UN in there with both feet.

Sorry, but you're the naive one, if you think he's got the guts or the will to militarily oppose millions of armed citizens who want nothing more than to peacefully dissolve a political alliance.

He didn't have the courage to order the military to save our people in Benghazi when they were under direct attack. What makes you think he would have the courage to send American troops against millions of peaceful American citizens? And do you really think our troops would obey?

Think again.

44 posted on 11/14/2012 9:03:16 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
In the abstract, the Declaration of Independence provides some philosophical support for the notion of secession. Two things bother me about the current secession mania.

First, how many of the people who have signed these petitions would be willing to sign on if they believed that by doing so they faced the likelihood of being drawn and quartered if the movement fails? Those were the stakes faced by those who signed our Declaration. I suspect that most of the folks signing these online secession petitions are treating it like they might a grocery store petition to repeal a motorcycle helmet law. How many of these people are really prepared to die over this issue? How many are really just blowing off steam and relying on the First Amendment to save them from a traitor's execution?

Second, believing as I do that this movement is likely to go the way of the hula hoop, will the conservative movement be damaged if it becomes associated with what is inherently an expression of hostility to the United States of America? Isn't that what crippled the Democrats after what they did in the sixties and early seventies to oppose the USA's foreign policy? Are conservatives permanently immune to any taint unpatriotism?

I would have a lot more respect for the secession movement if I thought that a significant number of people were really prepared to pledge their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor. Right now, it feels more like another "cool thing to do." If it doesn't work, I hope that the conservatives don't get left holding the bag.

45 posted on 11/14/2012 9:36:00 PM PST by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; All

” - - - there is no “format” for how to secede in an orderly manner.”

WRONG!

Google “State Constitutional Conventions” for THE way to secede without the bloodshed of our First Civil War. Permission from the US Federal Government is not needed.

It is a tedious process, however.

I favor holding these State Constitutional Conventions, splitting up the now Bankrupt USA into economically viable regions of States, with each Region taking their proportionate share of the former National Debt.

For example: one such Region might be the XL Pipeline States: North Dakota to Texas; another Region might be the 5 States whose shores are on the Pacific Ocean, etc.

The Communist Obamanation eventually will destroy America, so the wise thing to do is to save one’s own State by secession through State Constitutional Conventions.


46 posted on 11/14/2012 10:01:47 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Ron Paul does have his lucid moments. I can’t see secession working unless a lot of States with shared borders did it. The government would actually decide to control the borders of isolated States to prevent them from engaging in commerce - they would put up a siege like no siege in history.


47 posted on 11/15/2012 4:02:38 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trebb

I could say it may be possible that should key states secede and then a blue state starts having certain shortages like fuel, fresh fruit, meat and even tourism and the people of that blue state decide to leave then the USSA led by Her Obama would and could lock down the exit of the peoples, in effect a Berlin Wall in America.

And then we may find red states airlifting cargo into red held portions of a blue state. Again the communists in America want the whole pie, because they cannot sell their propaganda of sharing the pie if there is only the crust left.


48 posted on 11/15/2012 4:11:51 AM PST by Eye of Unk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Windflier

What makes you think they will be our troops.


49 posted on 11/15/2012 4:19:54 AM PST by Venturer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: hopespringseternal
I believe the upper level dims know precisely what they are doing. The rank and file simply doesn't care. They don't care to understand. They will vote for dims period. The dims are establishing a defacto aristocracy. So, I believe the dims know their policies are destructive and the dims apply those policies precisely to that end. In the end the dims believe they will centralize power. All economic and political power will flow through them. And thanks, I am a right winger and proud of it.
50 posted on 11/15/2012 4:24:29 AM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson