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Dropping a Class (Vanity)
Me

Posted on 11/19/2012 1:19:23 AM PST by MacMattico

With all of the problems going on in the world, this is trivial, hence the vanity post. But an example of what's going on in our schools and who thinks they control our kids.

My niece signed up for what should have been a simple, easy "A" grade HS class. Purely an elective, having nothing to do with requirements or career. Turns out the teacher is a real piece of work. He's intimidating and creepy. (My nieces words.) I asked if anything had happened to make her feel "creepy" and she just said she doesn't like the feeling she gets when she's alone near him.

Her mother gave her permission to drop the class and take a study hall, as she is already taking a heavy load of courses and this may ease her workload. But the school refuses! They keep saying the add/drop period is over and if she doesn't show up she will receive zero's in every other quarter as well as on the final exam! Of course, they remind her, this will take her 90+ average overall and wreck that as well. Can a school do this? My sister doesn't have a lot of $ for an attorney and I just think this is wrong.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education
KEYWORDS: highschool; homeschoolingisgood; policy; publicschool; teacher; union
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BTW it's an Art class and my niece fulfilled all of the requirements for the first quarter accept for "individual instruction". As I stated she said the teacher made her feel "creepy" and so she asked for small group, not individual instruction. She was told there was only a small number of students at her talent level, and they all skipped the group instruction, too. She asked to receive the instruction after school when the art studio was filled with people working quietly-- once again, told no. IF she can get the course dropped, does she still keep her grade on her transcript for the first quarter? I'm only asking for her mom on FR because you guys are pretty helpful in most areas and we are getting nowhere! (I'm trying to help, school won't talk to me as I'm not a parent.)
1 posted on 11/19/2012 1:19:35 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Except not accept in my post


2 posted on 11/19/2012 1:20:54 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

In college it would be a withdrawl/fail once you are past the drop period. If she is not planning on going to a top college or is not thinking of being an art major the grade really will not matter.


3 posted on 11/19/2012 1:23:29 AM PST by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: MacMattico

Safety First ! Screw the grades.

Trust her instincts. They are usually right.

Better safe then sorry !

God Bless and I will pray for her.


4 posted on 11/19/2012 1:29:15 AM PST by onona (Don't mean nothin)
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To: MacMattico

Let her follow her intuition. It is always correct.

It is more important to be safe.


5 posted on 11/19/2012 1:50:07 AM PST by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: MacMattico
This will probably not help, but...

It sounds like what the school is doing is perfectly legal.

This can be a lesson for her about fun little classes. If the teacher/professor does not share that view, there will be problems, as I learned from a fun little undergrad college film class that ate an appalling amount of my time. It turned out to be no fun at all.

Schools put up hurdles. You just keep jumping over the hurdles. A creepy teacher is just another hurdle. Get the damn A and move on.

6 posted on 11/19/2012 1:52:23 AM PST by TChad
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To: MacMattico

Has the daughter’s feelings been addressed by the mother with the school? Even if she has nothing concrete to point to, I would think any nest of libs as deep as a public school would bend over backwards to accommodate a female student.

Alternately, have someone go with her to the “individual instruction”. Schools like that often have counselors and “mentors” of all kinds (gotta do something with that sociology degree), so they have all kinds of useless staff around to “assist” students. The only thing to be careful of there is that the art teacher may be well-liked enough by the faculty/staff that the school would back the teacher over a student if something were to occur.


7 posted on 11/19/2012 1:53:53 AM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: MacMattico

It sounds as if the problem is not just the creepy teacher but being alone with the teacher, right? She would be well within her rights to ask (politely demand) that the school insure a safe learning environment, aka NEVER being alone with him. Have her make her request in writing, thus establishing a paper trail.

Then, she needs to document all the time in that class as it happens. The first time that there isn’t a witness to her interaction with that teacher, she should take it up with first the school administration, then the locall media.

Usually when the school is approached like that, they cave. No one wants a lawsuit and since by that time there would be documentation, the school would lose.

My husband is a teacher. He makes it a point to never be alone with any student. The possibilities of accusation are just too great.


8 posted on 11/19/2012 2:04:25 AM PST by Jemian
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To: LukeL

When I was in college, if you dropped after the add/drop period you got a W. If you dropped after the Withdrawal period you got a W/P (pass) or W/F (failing at the time of withdrawal). Those were semester courses and you had a long withdrawal time. This is a HS, full year elective class— I just don’t see how they can try to make her stay in it.


9 posted on 11/19/2012 2:06:40 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker is a great book for girls.


10 posted on 11/19/2012 2:07:47 AM PST by chalkfarmer
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To: TChad

She gets 10 points taken off her quarterly grade each time she doesn’t attend the art individual lesson.


11 posted on 11/19/2012 2:10:41 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico
Just an odd coincidence but the only teacher I ever had problems with was also a male art teacher. He was touchy feely and had a knack for making everything sound like a sexual innuendo. Anyway, I just did what regular horrible teenage girls do. I sat with my two best friends and we made disgusted faces when he tried to rub our shoulders or make dirty jokes. In a group, teenage girls can be terrifying. The key is just to never be alone with a creep like that.
12 posted on 11/19/2012 2:14:16 AM PST by Casie (Chuck Norris 2016)
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To: Jemian

That’s one thing I first thought. Why would this teacher want to be alone with his students, when there’s always the chance of an untrue accusation?


13 posted on 11/19/2012 2:14:16 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Little Pig

Her mom will talk to the school again tomorrow, so far they’ve just been told she can’t drop the course and if she doesn’t show up will receive Zero’s on her report card for the next three quarters and final exam.


14 posted on 11/19/2012 2:17:46 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

And that is the exact approach you ought to take. Insist that it is for the teacher’s benefit as well as your daughter’s benefit. If push comes to shove, you may need to offer to be there with your daughter.


15 posted on 11/19/2012 2:27:16 AM PST by Jemian
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To: chalkfarmer

I’ll look that up. I have daughter’s too!


16 posted on 11/19/2012 2:27:44 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: Jemian

It’s my niece, but she’s like a daughter. What makes me even feel weirder about the whole thing is that she really doesn’t have a father figure in her life, and I wonder if the teacher knows this.


17 posted on 11/19/2012 2:33:31 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

At no level when I was in school would I have been able to drop a class after the designated period to do so without it counting as a ‘fail’ that would have brought down my grade point average.

I agree with those here who say she needs to stick with what she signed up for—creeping teacher and all.


18 posted on 11/19/2012 2:36:28 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: SatinDoll; onona

That’s my thinking. This girl has never felt like a teacher was “creepy” before, always been a quiet A/B+ student. Her father is mostly out of the picture, I’m wondering if this makes her more of a “target”.


19 posted on 11/19/2012 2:42:58 AM PST by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico

Equip her with a pocket digital audio recorder and let her go ahead with the individual instruction. If the guy starts to get too “friendly”, then you have some evidence to nail him with. Made sure she responds with the recorder in mind, such as “please stop touching my breast” rather than a non-specific “don’t do that”.

If it gets out of hand, she can always start screaming.

You might also want to check this guy out on this site:

http://www.ratemyteachers.com/

The search feature on the site doesn’t seem to work, but you can get to the ratings via google. Enter the guy’s name and “teacher ratings”, and you might find something interesting.


20 posted on 11/19/2012 2:48:01 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Cut the cable today!)
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To: MacMattico

Mom should use the term sexual harassment, because this teacher makes her girl feel threatened. That is a HUGE buzz word.

There should never be any situation where a school FORCEs a child to be ALONE with a teacher. PERIOD.

If the girl would talk to her counselor about the incidents that make her feel creepy it would help. I agree with the paper trail

If all else fails still DROP the class. It is NOT worth it to have a child feel threatened. Take a make up class in the summer. Insist that a note be placed in daughter’s file that the child felt threatened when forced by the school to be alone with the teacher and the school refused to act.

Mom must demand that the school NEVER require require this girl to be alone with the teacher. Either a teacher’s aide or MOM attends every session of this class.

Even out of his class I wold keep an eye on this creep. We all have vibes when we are with a creep.


21 posted on 11/19/2012 2:48:40 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: MacMattico

“intimidating and creepy”. Towards a female student.

Suggest you use the tactical nuke of bureaucracy. Have her claim “Hostile Environment”. And if she is not accommodated, she will make it public. Schools HATE witch-hunts. . .


22 posted on 11/19/2012 2:49:36 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: MacMattico
Being old, may not be able to add to this conversation though will attempt to add. Creepy means sometimes different things to different generations. Your concerns are warranted though. This individual teaching thing, mentioned. Some schools have a policy of no individual teaching, or one on one, at the high school level. Is this not a policy the school, in question, does not utilize? If policy. of no one on one. is not a policy at this school, maybe it is time for an adult to speak with administration, at the school, to determine what can be gleamed.
23 posted on 11/19/2012 2:52:48 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: MacMattico

Please ignore the posters who claim that she should “stick with it” because of some stupid idea of teaching her responsibility or whatever blather.

Her safety comes first. Period. Posters who think otherwise just don’t live in the real world.

Rule 1: Unless she’s shown flakey behavior before, her instincts are telling her something IMPORTANT. Listen to them!!!

Rule 2: Find the money to pay a lawyer to send a letter to the school. The letter should DEMAND that she not be left alone with this teacher OR she be allowed to withdraw. If you really can’t swing the few hundred it would take to do that, draft the letter yourself and have her Mom actually send it. The teacher may be pure as the driven snow, but see Rule 1.

Rule 3: Let’s be blunt about what we are talking about here. Again, unless she’s been a flake before using sexuality to get out of doing work, we’re talking about a situation that could escalate to sexual abuse aka rape. That would result in a lifetime of pain and misery. Grades (and some ignorant people’s ideas about a female adolescent sticking with a “decision” she made to not recognize the situationa and pull the plug earlier) PALE in comparision to that.

Rule 4: If you are in California, please private message me.


24 posted on 11/19/2012 2:56:22 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: 9YearLurker

Seriously, have you ever had a friend raped by a creep? I doubt it. Your comment is beyond... /rest of comment redacted so I don’t get zotted


25 posted on 11/19/2012 2:58:27 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: piytar

I’ve had plenty of creepy teachers and they never tried to rape me. The suggestion that this one is going to rape her in school during the class day is, well, I won’t say what it is.


26 posted on 11/19/2012 3:01:40 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: MacMattico

That is strange. Normally a school will allow you to drop a class for 25 dollars....maybe higher since I was in High School. I would try and talk to the administration again. The grade in the first quarter will stay and he will receive an “W” for the second quarter. However, is this a total year class or is she done in December? If it is only a semester than holding out til December might not be so bad since it is only 4 weeks away. If it is yearly, I would fight it administratively as much as possible.


27 posted on 11/19/2012 3:06:06 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: MacMattico

Oops....he should be she.


28 posted on 11/19/2012 3:06:43 AM PST by napscoordinator (GOP Candidate 2020 - "Bloomberg 2020 - We vote for whatever crap the GOP puts in front of us.")
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To: 9YearLurker

I have had two friends raped by their creepy grandfather. Nobody listened to them. One is a complete train wreck to this day. Had one friend raped by a creepy teacher. Your attitude EXACTLY matches the administrations’ and her parents’ at the time. She isn’t with us any more.

So frankly, you are WAY off base. /REALLY restraining myself.


29 posted on 11/19/2012 3:07:02 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: 9YearLurker

Oh, and did you ever have a creepy teacher force you — under pain of bad grades — be alone with them for “private instruction”? Classic predatory behavior, especially when targetted at a female adolescent without a father on the scene.


30 posted on 11/19/2012 3:09:27 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: piytar

“be alone” should be “to be alone.” Point stands though...


31 posted on 11/19/2012 3:10:40 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: piytar

This is a teacher in school during the school day.


32 posted on 11/19/2012 3:11:38 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker; MacMattico

Yup. So what? In private instruction? With nobody else around? Who cares that it is “in school during the school day”? Do a little Googling — happens all the time.

You really don’t understand how evil some people can be, do you? And how easy an adult male in a position of authority can take advantage of an adolescent?

Again, this teacher could be pure as the driven snow, but he MIGHT NOT BE. Given that the OP’s niece apparently has not raised these red flags before, why take the chance?

I can tell that you really don’t understand, so this will be my last response to you. To the OP: Please consider what I said in #24.


33 posted on 11/19/2012 3:17:29 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: MacMattico
As a parent I would not take no for an answer. I would put everyone on written notice, the Principal, the School Board and yes, the teacher. I would politely explain my daughter's discomfort at being alone with any male teacher. I would explain her efforts at trying to disengage from the class. I would politely ask for this to be resolved and then I would tell them you are prepared to litigate and that if your child is emotionally damaged by all of this you will ask for monetary composition for any counseling services she may require in the future.

What this does is put the teacher on notice that his behavior has been made public. That should stop any unwanted advances. It also puts the Principal on notice that the School Board is now involved in his decision process. I believe they will all back away from their position. When it comes to your child's safety you must be aggressive. Write your letter of explanation and send it to the Principal, Teacher, and School Board members Registered, return receipt requested. This will definitely put “creepy” teacher on notice that his behavior has been made public.

34 posted on 11/19/2012 3:21:29 AM PST by ladyL
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To: ladyL; MacMattico

A well stated good strategy, ladyL.


35 posted on 11/19/2012 3:26:53 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Salgak

HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT

brilliant!

the new PC buzzword every liberal understands and should fear, having used it themselves to ban prayer and single sex bathrooms

Parents need to know the lingo


36 posted on 11/19/2012 3:28:03 AM PST by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: ladyL; MacMattico

Caveat: It is really best to have a good lawyer draft the letter(s) to avoid claims of defamation...


37 posted on 11/19/2012 3:28:38 AM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: MacMattico

First off, it’s impossible to make a change to a HS schedule once the schedule has been set; to do so would require one of the shaved apes in the administration to stir themselves and that can’t happen.

Second, if your niece feels creeped out when she’s alone with the teacher I suggest the following course of action. She should wear a blouse she doesn’t care for with a tee shirt underneath. When alone with Uncle Creepy, she simply tears it from the neck, screams and runs to the office

During the negotiations that follow she can agree to work it out.


38 posted on 11/19/2012 3:36:30 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: MacMattico
But the school refuses!

That is what you work with, the foggy "the school."

Find out exactly who made the decision. Get the names. Bureaucrats LOVE to hide within a group's anonymity. For all you know, that "creepy" instructor could be on the staff, or one of is friends could be as well!

If it's a group, get the voting record. GET NAMES, and be insistent. Write down who you talk to, and let them see that you are writing it all down. Write down the time you talk to them. Ask them what their full name is and their position. It's very intimidating to a bureaucrat.

39 posted on 11/19/2012 3:45:32 AM PST by Loud Mime (Conservatives refused to unite; now we pay the price!)
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To: MacMattico

Keep the class. Attend EVERY one-on-one session with your daughter. Explain why to the school and the teacher in a matter-of-fact way. Explain to anyone who asks.

Problem solved.

You should also talk to the teacher individually and tell him what you think.


40 posted on 11/19/2012 3:53:51 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: muir_redwoods

Great idea to teach a young girl to act like she was molested.

All we know is that she feels creepy, whatever that exactly means. Until one knows what it exactly means one cannot know what to do.

How about the mother sits down with her and asks her point blank questions to find the truth. Only then can one form the right strategy.


41 posted on 11/19/2012 4:10:26 AM PST by sakic
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To: Salgak
Suggest you use the tactical nuke of bureaucracy. Have her claim “Hostile Environment”.

Bingo. Make them live by their own rules.

42 posted on 11/19/2012 4:11:05 AM PST by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: muir_redwoods

She should fake a sexual assault?

Not a very helpful addition to this thread. Leave fake rape-charges to the Tawana Brawleys of this world.


43 posted on 11/19/2012 4:12:47 AM PST by agere_contra ("Government creates nothing" - Romney, 2012)
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To: MacMattico
Keep this in mind. Schools are bureaucratic hellholes. (Even the best ones)

Bureaucrats like to take the path of least resistance.

You and the child's mother can get the response you wish by making it easier for the Bureaucrat to do what you wish than what the "creepy" teacher wishes.

Bureaucrats don't like "complications" so, be very complicated. Don't be rude or threatening but be firm and relentless. A phone call each and every day asking to resolve this issue in favor of your side's position is a good start but actual hard copy is better. Hard copy on legal letterhead (that of a reputable attorney) is the gold standard. Such is the most complicated of all complications that a bureaucrat must endure. A followup phone call by an attorney (or several) is Kryptonite to any and all bureaucrats. They know the attorney will be keeping records and bureaucrats don't like things to be on record.

Maybe a head to head sit down where your position can be presented in a firm manner without emotion just understood concern for your daughter's (and the school's) reputation.

44 posted on 11/19/2012 4:13:35 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: agere_contra

Your opinion is noted


45 posted on 11/19/2012 4:15:01 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: sakic

I prefer my idea but you’re welcome to your unworkable one.


46 posted on 11/19/2012 4:16:09 AM PST by muir_redwoods (Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)
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To: MacMattico

Yes, the school can do that. Creepy people are a fact of life. Not much anyone can do about that other than learn to deal.


47 posted on 11/19/2012 4:21:23 AM PST by FerociousRabbit
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To: Jemian
I am a male teacher also. Jemian's advice in post #8 is precisely what you should do.

It will scare the crap out of him.

48 posted on 11/19/2012 4:40:19 AM PST by Aevery_Freeman (The trouble with the "masses" is that they never achieve the "m")
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To: MacMattico
Get her out now! She should never, ever ignore her gut feeling about such things. Ignore those saying stick it out, or have someone with her...all such little tricks will make the creep act out worse if he gets the chance, and he'll make the chance. Nothing is as important as her safety, nothing! To do less may mean living with results that haunt the family until their dying days.

Someone mentioned a book, “The Gift of Fear”, I recommend it also. It teaches that we have many subconscious ways in which we recognize danger, but modern civilization doesn't like to think a gut reaction has validity. It does!

49 posted on 11/19/2012 4:41:18 AM PST by pepperdog ( I still get a thrill up my leg when spell check doesn't recognize the name/word Obama!)
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To: piytar; MacMattico; Fresh Wind
In life, she is going to encounter people who give her a "creepy" feeling, and yet will need to interact with them anyway. She will not always get it her way, to only interact with those she chooses, unless she has her own business with a select clientele.

She should keep a digital recorder on her, as Fresh Wind recommended, and be briefed on how to deal with unwanted touching, and be sure to immediately report any harassing interaction to the school office, with a CC of the writeup to her mom to hold for potential lawyer.

50 posted on 11/19/2012 4:46:45 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (political correctness is communist thought control, disguised as good manners)
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