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Ancient Mariners: Did Neanderthals Sail to Mediterranean?
LiveScience ^ | Thursday, November 15, 2012 | Charles Choi

Posted on 11/24/2012 8:17:46 AM PST by SunkenCiv

Neanderthals and other extinct human lineages might have been ancient mariners, venturing to the Mediterranean islands thousands of years earlier than previously thought.

This prehistoric seafaring could shed light on the mental capabilities of these lost relatives of modern humans, researchers say.

Scientists had thought the Mediterranean islands were first settled about 9,000 years ago by Neolithic or New Stone Age farmers and shepherds...

For instance, obsidian from the Aegean island of Melos was uncovered at the mainland Greek coastal site of Franchthi cave in layers that were about 11,000 years old, while excavations on the southern coast of Cyprus revealed stone artifacts about 12,000 years old...

Recently, research has hinted that seafarers may have made their way out to the Mediterranean islands even earlier, long before the Neolithic, and not only to isles close to the mainland, but to more distant ones as well, such as Crete.

For instance, stone artifacts on the southern Ionian Islands hint at human sites there as early as 110,000 years ago. Investigators have also recovered quartz hand-axs, three-sided picks and stone cleavers from Crete that may date back about 170,000 years ago. The distance of Crete about 100 miles (160 kilometers) from the mainland would have made such a sea voyage no small feat.

The exceedingly old age of these artifacts suggests the seafarers who made them might not even been modern humans, who originated between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago. Instead, they might have been Neanderthals or perhaps even Homo erectus.

(Excerpt) Read more at livescience.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: ancientnavigation; crete; godsgravesglyphs; homoerectus; mediterranean; mousterian; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; seafaring; toolmaking; tools; tooltime
Neanderthals or other extinct human lineages may have sailed to the Mediterranean Islands long before previously thought. Here, an excavation at Akrotiri Aetokremnos, a site in Cyprus dating back to about 10,000 B.C. where pygmy hippo fossils were found. CREDIT: Alan Simmons.

Ancient Mariners: Did Neanderthals Sail to Mediterranean?

1 posted on 11/24/2012 8:17:48 AM PST by SunkenCiv
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
KEYWORDS: neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals


2 posted on 11/24/2012 8:24:19 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve

in local libraries
Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
KEYWORDS: neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals


3 posted on 11/24/2012 8:25:18 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Have they ever been right about ANYTHING?


4 posted on 11/24/2012 8:26:14 AM PST by MestaMachine (It's the !!!!TREASON!!!!, stupid!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I’ve long believed that rafts or boats of some sort were our earliest technology after stone tools.

It just doesn’t take a huge leap of intelligence to figure out that you can float on some logs. Intentional directed water travel takes a much higher level of intelligence but we are unsure of when that started as well.


5 posted on 11/24/2012 8:27:17 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
If the world ended and started again....we'd go through the same stages of gowth....assuming man is the same.

A rock rolling down a hill is still a wheel.

Spears, straw huts....whatever...man can be lazy or hard working and creative. It's all about needs and desires.

6 posted on 11/24/2012 8:45:58 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

True enough. There have been plenty of setbacks for mankind along the way. Its interesting to consider where mankind would be without the burning of Alexandria, the dark ages and black death etc.

On the other hand, the dark ages seemed to have sparked something and technology exploded out of it.


7 posted on 11/24/2012 8:54:41 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: SunkenCiv

Every ancient culture tells the same history. There was a world before the deluge where the sun shone all the time. There were no seasons and there was no moon. When the moon first arrived in 10,500BC, it cause the Earth to spin on a tiltled axis. This caused the ice in the North American and the South Pacific to melt in a matter of weeks. It also caused something that had not been seen before, weather patterns of rain, snow, wind, and seasons. Within a few generations, man realized that the seasons mattered to their crops. Thus, they started tracking the skies and saw pattern and used huge boulders to create long lasting tracking systems. Whatever set the moon into our orbit 12000 years ago will return to disrupt its orbit. Will we survive?


8 posted on 11/24/2012 9:12:01 AM PST by UglyinLA
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To: SunkenCiv

Every ancient culture tells the same history. There was a world before the deluge where the sun shone all the time. There were no seasons and there was no moon. When the moon first arrived in 10,500BC, it cause the Earth to begin to spin on a tilted axis. This caused the ice in the North American and the South Pacific to melt in a matter of weeks. This is recorded in all ancient text as the deluge. It also caused something that had not been seen before, weather patterns of rain, snow, wind, and seasons. Within a few generations, man realized that the seasons mattered to their crops. Thus, they started tracking the skies and saw pattern and used huge boulders to create long lasting tracking systems. Whatever set the moon into our orbit 12500 years ago will return to disrupt its orbit. Will we survive?


9 posted on 11/24/2012 9:13:17 AM PST by UglyinLA
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To: SunkenCiv

No. But, the Nephilim probably did.


10 posted on 11/24/2012 9:15:07 AM PST by RetiredArmy (1 Cor 15: 50-54 & 1 Thess 4: 13-17. That about covers it.)
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To: UglyinLA

Lol!


11 posted on 11/24/2012 9:17:51 AM PST by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions by the ATF***)
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To: GunRunner

That’s my hypothesis and I’m sticking to it. LOL


12 posted on 11/24/2012 9:21:06 AM PST by UglyinLA
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To: cripplecreek

And it is just another small leap to figure out that you can propel yourself faster with a paddle of some sort-or to watch how a high wind catches an animal skin hung/laid out to cure, and make the obvious connection there. God did not make us stupid creatures...


13 posted on 11/24/2012 9:36:27 AM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: cripplecreek

The tools probably came from the survivors of a Neanderthal Italian cruise ship grounding.


14 posted on 11/24/2012 9:36:54 AM PST by conservaterian (NOW can we have a conservative candidate?????)
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To: Texan5
God did not make us stupid creatures...

That's something that only the public educational system seems capable of.
15 posted on 11/24/2012 9:40:22 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: SunkenCiv
Artist's rendering


16 posted on 11/24/2012 9:40:21 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: cripplecreek

Isn’t that the damn truth-I doubt that some of the graduates would recognize a boat oar/paddle, never mind knowing how to use it.

Keeping my kids in private school was worth every hard time and sacrifice made...


17 posted on 11/24/2012 9:52:35 AM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: UglyinLA

And Jesus rode dinosaurs to work! Woohoo!


18 posted on 11/24/2012 9:57:37 AM PST by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions by the ATF***)
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To: Texan5

The modern public school system intentionally creates followers, not thinkers or doers. Today’s kids are unable to lean from one thing and transfer it to another.

I went to a rural public school but we still had decent teachers and we had plenty of real life adventures to learn from out of school.


19 posted on 11/24/2012 10:03:55 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

Here is the jump made in the “scientific” proposition.

How can you tell the the type of ancestor is Neanderthal not a more modern man, based on the tool type found?

It is an unwarranted supposition that is made supporting the current conclusion on time frames.

The tools from 100,000 years support the idea of an advanced form of man at that time. Not which one. A skeleton with the tools would support which one at a particular site.

Real science should spot this.

DK


20 posted on 11/24/2012 10:16:00 AM PST by Dark Knight
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To: Dark Knight

It’s called a ‘hypothesis’.


21 posted on 11/24/2012 10:24:00 AM PST by GunRunner (***Not associated with any criminal actions by the ATF***)
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To: SunkenCiv
I see Neanderthals and Homos quote often in Obama Country.
22 posted on 11/24/2012 10:45:48 AM PST by twister881
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To: SunkenCiv

I just figured it out. Your real name is James Shreeve.


23 posted on 11/24/2012 10:49:31 AM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk oMnly to me.Reid)
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To: UglyinLA

Selections from Immanuel Velikovsky’s Worlds in Collision (1950)

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/JNHDA/wic.htm

In the Ermitage Papyrus [Leningrad, 1116b recto] also, reference is made to a catastrophe that turned the ‘land upside down; happens that which never (yet) had happened.’


24 posted on 11/24/2012 12:12:08 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: cripplecreek

Of the three items you mentioned, 2 can be directly attributed to islam. (The Black Death was allegedly spread to Europe when muslims laid siege to a city and hurled an infected corpse over the wall. Rats and fleas escaped , carrying the disease with them. The burning of the Alexandrian Library was due to the fact that it contained pre-islamic knowledge and lore.)The Dark Ages can also be linked, if one works at it!

I don’t have links or articles to these theories; I just have heard it said over the years.


25 posted on 11/24/2012 2:16:18 PM PST by left that other site (Worry is the Darkroom that Develops Negatives.)
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To: cripplecreek

I wholeheartedly agree. I’d add that I think this is one of those ideas which came about as a result of teenaged boys hanging around, daring one another, and showing off.

The earliest known use of some sort of watercraft was about 800K ago, off of SE Asia, but there’s really no way (until someone figures out time travel) to know how far back it goes from there.


26 posted on 11/24/2012 4:52:55 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: UglyinLA

Great post!

There’s a wide range of different details in the many Flood stories, e.g., some have a Deluge, some don’t. The arrival of the Moon shows up in Greek Attica, but also in the Welsh Mabinogeon, among others. The Earth had tides before that — the Sun produces about 1/3 of the tides, yet another fact that destroys the “Rare Earth” crap — but the Moon was a wanderer, captured by the Earth; even without resort to ancients myths, the geology and fossil evidence shows this is so. This may seem odd to those who know of my deep interest in impact, but that’s how I roll. ;’)


27 posted on 11/24/2012 4:58:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: wildbill

I’m actually his cousin, Brian Indra Shreeve.


28 posted on 11/24/2012 5:00:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Fred Nerks

Thanks FN!


29 posted on 11/24/2012 5:00:43 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: cripplecreek

Perhaps those really aren’t setbacks, but necessary events to get us to where we are today.


30 posted on 11/24/2012 9:13:46 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Raycpa

The Ark would be all black and without a high pilot house.


31 posted on 11/24/2012 9:14:15 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: SunkenCiv

AKA Rime of the Ancient Mariner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIzUTgtZ9_Q

Yes its a pun.


32 posted on 11/24/2012 9:28:19 PM PST by Redcitizen (A good pun is its own reword.)
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To: cripplecreek; SunkenCiv; All

Why is it that these guys never seem to take into account the fact that sea level was as much as 400 feet lower than it is now at various times? Also that in some periods the Mediterranean was sometimes two vast lakes, and at others had dried up completely. They could have walked or swam with some of these states. Anybody have some good mappings of those old periods. I read that there are salt deposits on the floor of the Med. that are 1,000 feet thick.


33 posted on 11/24/2012 11:16:11 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

The Mediterranean last refilled five million years ago. Anyone who finds archaic human remains that old will next find the egress sign for their careers.

An ice age drop of 400 feet (or 800+ nearer the poles) didn’t cause dry land bridges to appear (apart from the Bering Strait, maybe some Arctic islands, but not Antarctica AFAIK) to link major landmasses or most offshore islands.


34 posted on 11/25/2012 6:43:29 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv; All

If the ocean was 400 feet lower as little as 20 to 40,000 years ago, than the Mediterranean would have also been about that much lower, as the Straits of Gibralter are at least that deep. I would like to see a map of the Med. with that much reduction in water level. I am sure it would show that there were islands not that far from main land at that time.


35 posted on 11/27/2012 4:32:39 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin; blam

I think blam has a graphic or two about that.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2962614/posts?page=35#35


36 posted on 11/28/2012 6:35:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Redcitizen

:’)


37 posted on 11/28/2012 6:43:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv; gleeaikin
"I think blam has a graphic or two about that."

I've lost that lower sea level data.

I would like to see a map of the Med. with that much reduction in water level. I am sure it would show that there were islands not that far from main land at that time."

In their book, Noah's Flood Ryan and Pittman speak about their research near the mouth of the Gibralter and the gouged out areas on the floor that were obviously made by a 'waterfall' of water rushing into the Mediterranean.

I've speculated numerous times that the Mediterranean became blocked at Gibralter during the Ice Age and shrank to a very small size. The islands we know and see today were probably big land masses with many people. When the Ice Age ended and the Gibralter 'plug' broke, the waters in the Mediterranean began to rise sending refugees everywhere.

Everyone in the known world was talking about the rising waters. Noah began to build an ark...he didn't know how much the water would rise or how fast so he decided to build it on a mountain (Ararat) so that he could finish it before the water reached him.
The water in the Mediterannean rose enough that it broke the 'plug' at the Bosporus and flooded 500+ feet down into the Black Sea. The irrigation farmers (the whole area was very dry) around the once 'fresh water' Black Sea evacuated up the river valleys into Europe bringing farming and the Indo-European language with them into Europe. Some of the refugees may have ended up in China as the Tocharians.

Ect.

38 posted on 11/28/2012 7:25:25 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv; gleeaikin
"I think blam has a graphic or two about that."

I've lost that lower sea level data.

I would like to see a map of the Med. with that much reduction in water level. I am sure it would show that there were islands not that far from main land at that time."

In their book, Noah's Flood Ryan and Pittman speak about their research near the mouth of the Gibralter and the gouged out areas on the floor that were obviously made by a 'waterfall' of water rushing into the Mediterranean.

I've speculated numerous times that the Mediterranean became blocked at Gibralter during the Ice Age and shrank to a very small size. The islands we know and see today were probably big land masses with many people. When the Ice Age ended and the Gibralter 'plug' broke, the waters in the Mediterranean began to rise sending refugees everywhere.

Everyone in the known world was talking about the rising waters. Noah began to build an ark...he didn't know how much the water would rise or how fast so he decided to build it on a mountain (Ararat) so that he could finish it before the water reached him.
The water in the Mediterannean rose enough that it broke the 'plug' at the Bosporus and flooded 500+ feet down into the Black Sea. The irrigation farmers (the whole area was very dry) around the once 'fresh water' Black Sea evacuated up the river valleys into Europe bringing farming and the Indo-European language with them into Europe. Some of the refugees may have ended up in China as the Tocharians.

Ect.

BTW, the Mediterannean has completely dried out over 40 times but, the last time was five million years ago.

39 posted on 11/28/2012 7:30:23 PM PST by blam
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