Vanity: Enemy of the State

[chrisser]

My wife and I were at my parents for Thanksgiving, along with my sister.

During dinner conversation, we discovered my sister was an enthusiastic Obama supporter. Unfortunately, the conversation ended up in a long political argument. My parents refused to say how they voted, but it was pretty obvious they're drinking the Koolaide too, along with my brother, who wasn't there.

As you can imagine, I've been thinking a lot about this since. There's more than a little bit of regret I have from the conversation, but beyond that, I think it was the first time I've actually come face to face with the mindset of the other side.

Most of you have probably been there and seen the unbelievable lack of information, complete ignorance of history, acceptance of propaganda as fact, and just the stupidity and immorality that otherwise good people can accept.

I'm saddened by the whole episode, but more than that, I'm more than a little afraid. I can't help but think about the history of Nazi and pre-Nazi Germany, of the Russian and Chinese "revolutions", and the other repeated examples of the horrors of socialism and the relative ease with which their countries' populations accepted them, even with enthusiasm.

Again, this is probably old hat to a lot of us here.

But, as I was out in the garage, patching up one of our old cars for the 3rd or 4th time, trying to keep it driveable so we don't have to spend money on a new one (even though we must be "the rich", since our taxes are going to go up even more), I had a lot of time to think, and I'm faced with the reality that, someday in the future, I am likely to be an enemy of the state.

I know I'm not going to be a member of the ruling elite in the coming new order. Nor will I be one of their supporters. That means I'll either be a member of the vocal dissent that gets killed off early on, the resistance that gets hunted down later (I suspect this is where I'll end up), or I can chose to be a slave to the state - and I refuse to be the latter.

It's a sobering thought. I love my country. I never thought I would ever take action against her. But I can't help feeling that, at some point, if I value freedom and my rights as an individual, then I will end up her enemy.

Anyone thought along similar lines? If so, how do you deal with it, 'cause I'm pretty darned depressed about the idea.

[JRandomFreeper]

I'm perfectly ok with evil persons hating me.

/johnny

[jessduntno]

You’ll be in good company:

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive.

If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them.

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

- Thomas Jefferson, November 13, 1787, letter to William S. Smith, quoted in Padover’s Jefferson On Democracy, ed., 1939

[livius]

This country was founded on amazing ideals, and we can never be her enemy.

I too fear that the ruling class (meaning government employees) is going to cast people who still want to live their individual lives as enemies. They will do this even though everything in the foundation of this country was about ensuring the private sphere of the individual - to practice his faith, to own property and make a living, and to do whatever was necessary to support this project.

But the government has taken on a life of its own and is rumbling forward like Frankenstein’s monster. This makes me fear both for me and for my church, but I am trusting in God to show me what to do, hoping I am not like the hapless Jews in Germany who missed the warning signs.

[sten]

when the day comes... disinformation is your friend

be a supporter, a dummy, someone that prefers ignorance over trouble...

and when they aren’t looking, work sabotage and other nefarious deeds to help the resistance

I fully realize I will end up against the wall. i take comfort in the knowledge that many will go before me

[leapfrog0202]

Chrisser, sorry you had that experience. It’s certainly disheartening to say the least.

I had a similar experience, but not in person, on Facebook. My youngest brother is an ultra-lib, Ph.D. holding professor at a private college in upstate NY and his wife is very similar although she teaches middle school and has a Master’s. Their 4 year old is arleady drinking the kool-aid.

My other brother, younger by 2 years, is a union negotiator for UAW in CA and you can imagine what his politics are! His wife works at a college near them.

After seeing them do the happy dance on FB about how Obama won and all us “conservatives that want to outlaw immigration, women’s reproductive rights, gays, blacks and Hispanics” should go eat s**t cuz their boy won I pretty much wrote them off.

It’s really sad but while I was posting things to try to explain to people WHY Zero was the wrong choice, my brother was posting things about “isn’t America about sharing? I certainly don’t mind giving a small portion of my income to help those that need it, those that never got a break in their life. This is what America is.”

I tried to make him see that some people don’t have things because they do NOT want to work nor do they even try to make their lives better. No sale. He just doesn’t get the very basic differences and sees all of “us” through black lenses as if conservatives were Satan come to life.

I don’t know how to deal with it. Knowing that when push comes to shove we will be pitted against each other saddens me incredibly much. I’ve been struggling with these feelings since realizing Zero was reelected. I hope someone knows how to handle it cuz I could sure use the help.

I wish you peace my FRiend. Good luck with this.

[Revolting cat!]

It won’t happen. The new stalinists like Obama will do communism right this time (or so they think.) For the model look at Argentina, before Peron in the top 6 economies of the planet, since Peron a permanent basketcase, that even military coups cannot repair. This is the fate of America, a narrow rich elite, industrial and political, forever struggling overworked middle class, and a greedy, resentful underclass, so numerous that it cannot be outvoted anymore.

[FlingWingFlyer]

A lot of people living in our America these days have been programmed to put themselves ahead of the good of the country. That’s why the Arabs/communists well eventually kick our assess. Our own “Me! Me! Me!” greed is the weapon being used against us. Someday, everybody is going to be in for a rude awakening. They’ll probably learn about it over their “smart” phone.

[sauropod]

I too fear that the ruling class (meaning government employees) is going to cast people who still want to live their individual lives as enemies.

Stop it. The ruling class may be those at the top of the government employee heap, but it is unfair of you to castigate all of them that way.

[Windflier]

I'll either be a member of the vocal dissent that gets killed off early on, the resistance that gets hunted down later (I suspect this is where I'll end up), or I can chose to be a slave to the state - and I refuse to be the latter.

Don't be afraid, friend. There are far more of us, than there are of them, and most of us are well armed.

Consider this... There are an estimated 90,000,000 gun owners in the US, who possess an estimated 270,000,000 firearms. Naturally, they're not all right-leaning patriots who revere the Constitution, but most are.

If worse came to worse, I think we'd be astonished at how fast the dark side would capitulate and allow us to properly restore our government.

[pieceofthepuzzle]

A totalitarian state, like Nazi Germany, won't happen here with the demographics we have. Nazi Germany pushed people into a nationalistic frenzy wherein they were expected, if not required, to work hard for the state. Can you imagine many of the Obama voters ‘working hard’? Rallying around a new kind of American nationalism?

This is more like the Bolsheviks, but in that instance there was a Czar to blame everything on, and people didn't vote. The left is constantly trying to find their ‘Czar’ to hang blame on (e.g. Bush, the 1%, old white guys), but none of these are the kinds of persona to coalesce a popular uprising around. Also, the left has a very fractured coalition put together with a combination of gum, spit, self-interest, and resentment. It won't be too long before some of those factions that make up the coalition turn against the mother ship. We saw some of this with the Hillary voters that jumped ship.

We just need to keep our noses down, be principled, and we'll be OK. It might take awhile, with lots of bs and disappointments in between, but we will be OK.

[A_perfect_lady]

I don’t argue with them anymore. I just smile and say “I hope you’re right and it all turns out the way you think it will.” After that, no matter what they say, just shrug, smile, repeat.

[tomkat]

Take out as many of the evil bastards as you can before you're martyred for the memory of our nation and Constitution.

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking:  What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?  Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?  The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

  Solzhenitsyn

[A_perfect_lady]

Nazi Germany pushed people into a nationalistic frenzy wherein they were expected, if not required, to work hard for the state. Can you imagine many of the Obama voters ‘working hard’?

ROTFL!! Oh, that's the best observation I've seen in weeks.

[TheConservativeParty]

I learned this election that one of my favorite cousins is an Obot! He is in an auto-worker’s union so they poisoned his mind over the decades he’s worked there. He works tirelessly for his church and the private school it has! Yet he votes for dems. This doesn’t make sense. He lives in Illinois. Surely he know Obummer is the most abortion loving dem to hold office.

I always knew my in-laws were democrat union drones.
I have not heard a peep out of them since the election. They’re old. They will reap what they sowed with ObamaCare. Hey, there’s even a 4 percent real estate sales fee in ObamaCare that I am sure they’ll be delighted to pony up someday.

It’s us vs. them. Us, old fashioned Americans. Them, the takers and abortion lovers.

We’re on the side of what is righteous.

As for the socialists, like I always say, there’s plenty of room in hell.

[nomad]

I know the welfare state will collapse into a zombie apocalypse and I don`t want to be in a blue state when that happens so I`ve been making plans to move to a solidly red state and it`s solidly red areas. I look at it this way, JUST LIKE a coming storm, people can see it on the horizon, like hurricane Katrina or Sandy everyone with at least half a brain knows they need to act, if they choose to be part of the sheeple and not act, well, they get what they ask for, they end up behind enemy lines and will be S.O.L., my advice, do what ever you have to but move, get out of enemy territory now, while you still can or you`ll only have yourself to blame when hurricane zombie hits and the gubmint comes to “help you”.

[chrisser]

Knowing that when push comes to shove we will be pitted against each other saddens me incredibly much

The thing is, we're already there. Maybe the shooting hasn't started yet, but they're perfectly content using the government to forcibly take from me and give to someone else who they deem to be more deserving.

"Fairness" came up over and over, but nobody could define exactly what that meant.

[Persevero]

’ “isn’t America about sharing?”

Response: “Stealing isn’t sharing. To take my money, against my will, with the threat of fines or jail time if I don’t give it, is not sharing.”

[blueunicorn6]

“If you understand yourself and you understand your opponents, then in one hundred battles, you will never be defeated.”

[RetiredTexasVet]

In both the Revolutionary War and Civil War there were elements of most families on opposite sides of the conflicts...that’s the way things fall out. They are so arrogant that they cannot even acknowledge the fact that they are vulnerable in every aspect of surviving a conflict.