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Dicks Sporting Goods Boycott or Not (Vanity)
Vanity | November 28, 2012 | ConservativeInPa

Posted on 11/28/2012 5:33:26 PM PST by ConservativeInPA

On Sunday I had a last minute change in my plans for the week. I was invited to a deer camp and I had to pull things together very quickly. To pull things together, I went to Dicks, which is less than a mile from my home.

Not long ago, I declared on Free Republic that would never buy anything from Dicks Sporting Goods (well, unless it was an emergency). My problem at the time was they required ID to buy a gun sling. There are no laws, federal, state or local that require that. I DO NOT like anyone asking me for ID.

My experience at Dicks this Sunday was less than desired. There were long checkout lines. Two customers ahead of me required price checks on their purchases as did I. I don't know about the eight customer ahead of them since I could not hear.

Not only did my purchase require a price check because the product wasn't in their computer, the sales clerk took a customer service call that interrupted my checkout.

I had been waiting in line through 10 plus people ahead of me. It seemed like they didn't want my business. I wanted to get in and out and on with other chores to get off to deer camp.

At least they didn't want to ID me to buy doe estrus.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Hobbies; Outdoors; Sports
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Am I nuts to complain about this level of customer service? Does anyone have similar experiences?
1 posted on 11/28/2012 5:33:33 PM PST by ConservativeInPA
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To: ConservativeInPA

This might come as a shock, but companies, when they lay-off employees, tend to lay-off the best (and most expensive). And the ones who remain are doubly ticked-off because they have to do twice the work.


2 posted on 11/28/2012 5:36:04 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ConservativeInPA

I think you’re right to complain about the level of customer service and, the ID check. However, I can say, the Dicks by me has always been good. One other thing to consider, you were there on one of the busiest shopping weekends of the year - maybe they had alot of new employees or others that did not show up for work?


3 posted on 11/28/2012 5:37:30 PM PST by capydick (''Life's tough.......it's even tougher if you're stupid.'')
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To: ConservativeInPA

We just don’t have enough info to determine if you are nuts at this time . . hold on I have a call . . . thank you for waiting, now what was your problem again? Oh yes I remember. You need to get in that other line over there, see it? yes the very loong line. Thank you and have a great day.


4 posted on 11/28/2012 5:38:58 PM PST by BipolarBob (Never lick a gift horse in the mouth.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

You could become President ..... then you would not be required to show any ID!


5 posted on 11/28/2012 5:39:53 PM PST by punchamullah
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To: ConservativeInPA

What you saw is consistent with what I’ve seen of their “service”. It just flat out sucks.

When you go to their firearms section, if they sell a gun, they might as well close it down for an hour, because they usually only have one guy back there, and his attention gets devoted to the firearms sale/paperwork/NICS check. More than one time, I’ve just walked behind the counter and helped myself to ammo, because they had no one to do it.


6 posted on 11/28/2012 5:42:25 PM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: ConservativeInPA
Dick's sucks.

Plan ahead, avoid Dick's .. just do without.


< / fish barrel >

7 posted on 11/28/2012 5:43:39 PM PST by tomkat (a million tiny cuts .. add yours daily .. be creative)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Wow, check out complaints?


8 posted on 11/28/2012 5:49:03 PM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb Fischer's successful run in Nebraska)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Yes, I have similar experiences.

But, from the other side of the register.

I work retail. You’re going to complain that you had to actually wait in a line on the Sunday after Thanksgiving? Tell me you’re kidding. Almost every retailer here in the Pittsburgh area is hiring for the holidays. Go ahead, apply for that job and start working, listening to customers gripe that they have to actually wait in a line. As far as the phone goes, damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Neglect to answer the phone and a customer (maybe you) will call and complain that their phone call went unanswered. Answer the phone, even if to put the customer on hold, and a customer (you) will complain that someone answered the phone.

I contend that every American should work at least one holiday season in retail.

Merry Christmas.


9 posted on 11/28/2012 5:50:24 PM PST by swpa_mom
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To: 1rudeboy
And the ones who remain are doubly ticked-off because they have to do twice the work. I figured I would fix that a bit from my experience.
10 posted on 11/28/2012 5:51:01 PM PST by Ingtar (Everyone complains about the weather, but only Liberals try to legislate it.)
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To: 1rudeboy
Their customer service has sucked for years. Companies do not fire their least payed employees in economic down turns. They fire their least competent employees. I have been thru multiple layoffs and still have my job. My current coworkers and I have betted on who would get the axe. It was always the lazy ass that wasn’t doing his job.

I think Dicks has a problem with their business model and a complete lack of understanding of their customers.

11 posted on 11/28/2012 5:54:28 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA
Not long ago, I declared on Free Republic that would never buy anything from Dicks Sporting Goods (well, unless it was an emergency).

Why declare in a public forum you will not shop there and then go there anyway? It's kind of a credibility issue to make that statement - and then complain publicly when you go there again after vowing not to shop there anymore. If you made a decision not to shop there anymore you problably had good reason. By going back there you just proved you shouldn't shop there.

12 posted on 11/28/2012 5:55:03 PM PST by InHisService (Jesus is coming back. Are you ready?)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I try not to go to Dick’s as they seem to want to sell shoes and clothing more than sporting goods. Academy Sports nearest me is better. They had at least a dozen AR-15s on the shelf.


13 posted on 11/28/2012 5:58:06 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: ConservativeInPA
Companies do not fire their least payed employees in economic down turns. They fire their least competent employees.

The smart ones do.

14 posted on 11/28/2012 5:58:59 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: ConservativeInPA
Can't imagine why they'd ask for ID for a sling.

On a positive note, I made a gun purchase at Dick's the Sunday before Black Friday. $179.95 for a Ruger 10/22 was just too good to pass up. To their credit they didn't charge a dime for the NICS call. Most dealers around here will hit you for $5-10 for the call in.

Of course the down side is you have to be escorted by one of the managers to the register and then out the door with your gun. Other than waiting for what seemed like forever for my 'escort' I have no major complaints.

15 posted on 11/28/2012 5:59:42 PM PST by Jed Eckert (Wolverines!!)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Dick’s has same old tired stuff. No one wants the boring knit golf shirts on the sales rack at $24.95. Can get 2X better quality for less at a dozen places.Near my local store what should be a high producing golf dep’t was literally un staffed for months. To save the P-T salary of a decent golf guy who knew his stuff. Who’s going to come in and grab at $700 set of irons ‘off the shelf’ with no help?


16 posted on 11/28/2012 6:03:22 PM PST by Swanks
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To: ConservativeInPA

We just recently had two Dick’s stores open in Oklahoma City and I went to one to browse around and was not impressed with either the prices or the selection of hunting and shooting products. Academy beats them hands down. I believe that they are more into golf, tennis and other sports.

We had a Sportsman’s Warehouse here for a few years, but it closed a couple years ago. They were great.


17 posted on 11/28/2012 6:06:37 PM PST by Okieshooter
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To: ConservativeInPA

The first thing to do is to politely complain to the company and the manager of the store you were in. I bet you can find an email contact online. They need to hear the complaints or they won’t know what to correct.


18 posted on 11/28/2012 6:07:05 PM PST by tiki
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To: swpa_mom

I worked six years of “Black Fridays” at a Sears up in the Pacific Northwest. I recall that all too well, and at least in my recollection, it wasn’t too much of a lunatic asylum (this was in the 90s).

Still, it was hectic, and after my shift, usually a full 8-hour shift on the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, you felt like you’d worked 8 days straight. The whiners, the complainers, the occasional scam-artists. Most people were pretty cool at least, and more than a few were genuinely understanding of the situation. The sympathetic ones had worked retail in the past, so they knew what it was all about.


19 posted on 11/28/2012 6:07:25 PM PST by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: swpa_mom
Well swpa_mom, I was a the customer ready to pay at the moment when the phone call came through. Who was paying? I was. The next time, if there is one, I am going to dump the stuff I was going to buy on the floor and walk out of the store.

This is a matter of respect. Apparently Dicks has no respect for their customers. They expect their customers to show ID to buy shooting related products. But not only that, they want to scan their ID. I am nearly 50 years old and as American as you can be. I do not need to be carded for anything.

I am sure there are plenty of retail jobs to be had at Walmart that pay better than Dicks. At least they treat their customer with respect. I just didn't have the extra 40 minutes to go to Walmart. (Well, maybe I will next time)

20 posted on 11/28/2012 6:07:27 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

Now you know why it is called “Dicks”!


21 posted on 11/28/2012 6:14:19 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (The law of unintended consequences is an unforgiving and vindictive b!tch!)
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To: ConservativeInPA

So, your feelings were hurt, the Sunday after Thanksgiving, because the minimum wage seasonal worker didn’t bow down to you and kiss your feet? REally? you’ll leave a mess on the floor just so you can have your tenper tantrum? You’ll dump the merchandise on the floor? that causes the store to damage the merchandise, take a loss on that merchandise (hopefully, your 401K doesn’t include stock in any of these companies you’re going to cause to lose money), all to have your temper tantrum?

On this premiere conservative website, there are people complaining about retail? IN THIS ECONOMY? You’ll be lucky if half of the stores make it past the fourth quarter.

Now you really should have gone to Walmart, nothing wrong with that. Just don’t complain about their lines, either.

In case you haven’t noticed, Obama’s economy stinks. You’re telling people who work at Dick’s to find another job because they dared to answer the telephone while you were standing in line on the Sunday after Thanksgiving?

As far as the ID goes, I can’t comment. I don’t work for Dick’s or for a sporting goods stores selling guns. Maybe you could have gone to their website before going to the store if that was an issue for you.


22 posted on 11/28/2012 6:16:07 PM PST by swpa_mom
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To: ConservativeInPA

The Dick’s I’ve been to (Plymouth Meeting) has a lot of kids working there. They are mainly a rude, “too hip to have to work” type. But I find that is true of 95% of the kids working these days. It’s part of the entitlement mentality. They literally hold on to your change until you thank them for giving you your own change. I refuse and, yes, I’ll make the direct comment if they don’t thank me for chipping in to their pay check.

I haven’t purchased firearms-related equipment at Dick’s, but I’ve noticed that when I go back to check on the prices and ask a question or two, they give me attitude, like I have to meet some criteria to ask.

I go to other places and get no such attitude at all. The folks are friendly and helpful and eager with lots of information.

Remember, you’re the customer. If they make you feel uncomfortable, THEY are failing. Take your money elsewhere and write them up with bad reviews online.


23 posted on 11/28/2012 6:18:07 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: swpa_mom

It’s not the line, it’s the attitude of the clerk after I’ve waited 20 minutes in line that pisses me off.

Their attitude is that it sucks to be so busy, to have so much work to do.

Each of those customers in putting money in their paycheck, and the attitude of many of those clerks is, “I shouldn’t have to stand here dealing with you to get money. Someone should just give it to me.”

I’m not saying you’re like that. But many, MANY of the clerks I deal with have that attitude.

Just look at how frequently the CUSTOMER ends up saying “Thank you” to the clerk after paying for an item. And how often the clerk says, “You’re welcome.”

THIS IS COMPLETELY BACKWARDS. The clerk should be thanking the customer for their business, which pays their wage.


24 posted on 11/28/2012 6:22:24 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

” It was always the lazy ass that wasn’t doing his job.”

Ah, but what about the lazy ass that’s an extraordinary ass kisser?


25 posted on 11/28/2012 6:28:00 PM PST by dljordan (Voltaire: "To find out who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.")
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To: Jed Eckert
Can't imagine why they'd ask for ID for a sling.

Neither can I. I understand the law when it comes to buying ammo and guns. (Which I disagree with) I can only assume it is corporate policy at Dicks that it applies to anything gun related. Understand, I do not like anyone; a retailer, government or otherwise knowing what I am purchasing. (Recently I lost all my guns in a boating accident)

I think the problem at Dicks is their computer system. The checkout clerks have no clue what is right or not. Well, maybe one does. She got a lesson in selling me a gun sling. She was a frickin' clueless liberal and she deserved everything she got. My 15 and 18 year old daughters know better because they were raised correctly. They both work retail. I don't have a problem educating the younger generation. I think it is something that our nation has forgot. I remember my elders giving me a good tongue lashing over simpler things when I was growing up.

26 posted on 11/28/2012 6:28:17 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

what has happened to this premier conservative website?

You’re complaining about “clerks” (a term not used for I don’t know how long) not having the attitude you want? Why do I think that the attitude is one to kiss your feet, afterall, like you claim, the customer pays their wage.

You’re upset to stand in line, you’re upset that the “clerk” doesn’t bow down to you, someone else is upset that the “clerk” has the audacity to answer the telephone, because you see, the last time the “clerk” didn’t answer the phone, some ignorant person called and complained that their phone call went unanswered, so now the “clerk” has to answer because of that ignorant person. I wonder if THAT person posts here, too.

Maybe you should open your own store, which is what I tell union people. Open the union store to compete with Walmart. You should do the same, tell your “clerks” that they better bow down and kiss the feet of the customer, especially when the customer is a total ignoramus.

This is a conservative website attacking retail employees?

Maybe you should shop online. That way, you can get mad at your computer.


27 posted on 11/28/2012 6:29:23 PM PST by swpa_mom
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To: ConservativeInPA

Sounds like a typical complaint about that chain.

At least they SELL guns.

You could just decide to not shop there, like normal people do when they don’t like the service. Not a boycott, but just better service elsewhere.


28 posted on 11/28/2012 6:35:00 PM PST by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: swpa_mom

If that is how you feel about customer service the I can completely understand your position in life. I answer to customers everyday. I don’t deal with selling doe estrus, but my customers expect and deserve respect ... No matter what day of the year it is, and for that matter what time of the day it is.

I can’t believe you are on a conservative forum like FR.


29 posted on 11/28/2012 6:39:05 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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Support Free Republic
FReepathon Day 59

30 posted on 11/28/2012 6:42:54 PM PST by RedMDer (Please support Toys for Tots this CHRISTmas season.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

I was only ever in a Dick’s sporting goods place once.

Never have I been treated so rudely. I figured it was because I was a woman and was shopping for a new gun...

Whatever—I’ve never darkened their door again.


31 posted on 11/28/2012 6:43:22 PM PST by basil (Second Amendment Sisters.org)
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To: ConservativeInPA

You answer the customers everyday, but you’re ready to throw merchandise on the floor, causing a loss to the company because the minimum wage seasonal employee wasn’t catering to you fully.

Right.

Your customers should throw your product on the floor, or otherwise damage your reputation by “throwing your product” on the floor. You didn’t cater to their every whim now, did you? You’re not a minimum wage seasonal employee, are you? You’re not a college student home on break, trying desperately to earn money for next semester’s books, are you? No, you’re a seasoned citizen who’s going to throw merchandise on the floor.

Nice try at the personal attack, by the way.

From now on, you’re ignored.


32 posted on 11/28/2012 6:45:10 PM PST by swpa_mom
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To: ConservativeInPA

There’s a reason why they named it that.


33 posted on 11/28/2012 6:48:33 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: swpa_mom

I don’t know, what has happened to this site?

It used to support a free-market economic system, one where the employee understood that every transaction is voluntary and that shop owners and workers need to respect the customer to ensure they keep coming back, that if they don’t, the customer will go elsewhere, and your company will go out of business, and you’ll lose your job.

I don’t want you to kiss my feet.

And I sure as hell don’t want to kiss your feet for deigning to make change for me when I make a purchase at your store.

Believe me, I shop online as much as I possibly can so that I don’t have to deal with “clerks” who think they are something more than just a change-maker.


34 posted on 11/28/2012 6:50:44 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

The name of the store is “Dicks”. What kind of customer service were you expecting?

Sorry, couldn’t resist.


35 posted on 11/28/2012 6:51:02 PM PST by wrench
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To: ctdonath2
At least they SELL guns.

Maybe they do. I have seen them behind the counter, but when I was last looking to make a gun purchase about a year ago, there was no one working the gun department.

It almost seems they do not want to sell guns and gun related products. When you want to make money, you serve your customers.

I was at Bass Pro week ago and customers had to take a number to buy to look at a guns. Their selves were half empty. Fortunately I didn't need to buy a gun.

36 posted on 11/28/2012 6:52:56 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

My first trip to Dick’s sporting goods in MN., was for 2000 rounds of .223, which they had on sale. Out of stock...no rainchecks. Second trip (and last) was with cash in hand for a .357 lever action Marlin rifle. After waiting over 20 minutes to get someone to show me the rifle, I left.
The end.


37 posted on 11/28/2012 6:54:01 PM PST by Fireone (Impeach and imprison, NOW! Treason and murder are still crimes.)
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To: swpa_mom

I worked several Christmas seasons in retail. To say “it sucks” is a major understatement. I think I’d rather do another combat deployment.


38 posted on 11/28/2012 6:57:16 PM PST by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: ConservativeInPA

With large retailers, you are going to inevitably encounter an experience or two with less than stellar customer service. That is the trade-off for low prices and convenience. Specialty retailers who cater to specific customers offer, by far, the best service by employees with real knowledge and a passion for what they are doing. This is the way it goes. Do you want to buy products being sold at a 5% net margin or are you willing to pay a retailer and allow them to earn a realistic 10 - 14% margin and cater to a smaller base.


40 posted on 11/28/2012 7:04:03 PM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe

Make change? Maybe 5% of customers actually use cash. If that much. Do you understand who “shop owners” really are? Do you have a 401K? Mutual fund? Who are the shop owners?

I’m sure the retailer I work for will go out of business one day. They all do. However, it will probably be after I’m done with retail, but if it happens tomorrow, then not only will you have the joy of saying I’ve lost my job (along with how many others), but like the millions of other unemployed in America, you’ll pay my freight. Maybe I’ll order an Obamaphone.

Will you be opening a retail establishment of your own? Make sure you don’t hire change makers. Actually, most under the age of 40 can’t count change anyhow, so it’s good that so few customers actually use cash.

It really takes a big person to go into any type of retailer during this busy season and complain about anything. In case you haven’t been paying attention, even seasonal hiring is down by double digits over last year. You knew that, right?

So, many ARE worried about their jobs after the holidays. Nobody knows what the tax situation will be for regular Americans (consumers) and if they will be able to afford anything other than absolute necessities.

However, when and if they do lose their jobs, you’ll be smiling, right?


41 posted on 11/28/2012 7:05:05 PM PST by swpa_mom
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To: ConservativeInPA

It’s personal and you can’t take a hint..../s,,,,LOL


42 posted on 11/28/2012 7:11:18 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: RobertClark
This is the way it goes. Do you want to buy products being sold at a 5% net margin or are you willing to pay a retailer and allow them to earn a realistic 10 - 14% margin and cater to a smaller base.

Actually, I buy most of my shooting related products for 10% above wholesale (including taxes, out the door) from a local gun shop. Dicks does not touch those prices. I was in a rush on Sunday, and my favorite local gun shop wasn't open.

It Is not about price, it is about respect. Which I consider customer service. I do not expect a sales clerk to hold my checkout because a phone call. I was ready to pay a premium for product.

43 posted on 11/28/2012 7:20:03 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

One thing I have noticed about retail is the tendency to discourage long term employment. It costs more money to have quality experienced associates and managers who have worked long enough to gain some seniority or reach retirement tenure. Career full time employees will also want benefits, unlike kids still living with their parents or part timers working their way through college. Companies tend to max out wages after someone has been with the company for a certain time frame. They say it is to encourage people to move up to higher levels, but given that the next level has fewer positions available, moving up can be difficult. The result is that people realize that they have no future with the company because opportunities for advancement are few and far between and often require moving on a regular basis. Some people just don’t want the extra hassle of being a store manager or are very good at selling, but they eventually get stuck in a job that no longer provides regular raises. Their only choice is to find another job, meaning that turnover is high and the replacements are often teenagers with attitudes and a complete lack of understanding of basic manners or customer service. Managers tend to be younger as well, and lack the experience of dealing with customers and are too interested in brownnosing upper level managers to use common sense.


44 posted on 11/28/2012 7:27:03 PM PST by yawningotter
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To: ConservativeInPA

I, for one, am NOT shy about being very vocal about such businesses opening additional checkout lines. Raise hell. Usually gets results. People around you may feel uncomfortable at first, but they’re the first to dash to the newly opened registers.

Wake up, business. You have all those damned registers...UUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE them.


45 posted on 11/28/2012 7:28:15 PM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: punchamullah
You could become President ..... then you would not be required to show any ID!

very subtle and perhaps the best post on this thread.

46 posted on 11/28/2012 7:30:46 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

It is about price. Hired labor is a commodity, like everything else. The terminology may be uncomfortable and not in vogue, but on a P & L statement, that is the way it is. With any commodity, you get what you pay for. I operate a service company with operations in 8 states. I do not compete on price and I pay my employees substantially more than my competitors (in every market). I could hire $8.00 an hour employees, use the lowest available quality equipment and increase my top line revenue by a considerable percentage. I’ve tried that approach. What is effective in producing highly satisfied customers that are left with an amazing impression is skilled and passionate employees using top of the line quality equipment and products and catering to customer’s every need. There is a difference.

Why do some people choose Kroger over Wal Mart for grocery shopping? Why do some people choose local hardware stores over Lowes or Home Depot? There is a substantial difference in price which is reflected in the quality of service offered. That is business. I’m happy that you have a local gun dealer that sells for 10% over cost. He has, obviously, been in business for a while and has limited overhead and limited need for additional capital expenditures. That is wonderful and the objective for most business owners, like myself.


47 posted on 11/28/2012 7:32:05 PM PST by RobertClark (Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?)
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To: yawningotter

I completely agree with you. My problem with Dicks isn’t with with their employment policies, but their customer service. Long, long time ago I put myself though college by working retail and food service. They were some or the best jobs I ever had, but I knew they would never pay for the lifestyle that I wanted. I still did my best to serve the customer. It wasn’t a matter or of pay, it was a matter of doing a good job for my employer.

I learned a lot from those jobs. I think I make a whole lot more money today because of that understanding.


48 posted on 11/28/2012 7:42:14 PM PST by ConservativeInPA (It is impossible to have a good faith negotiations with terrorists or any Muslim.)
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To: ConservativeInPA

You fail to mention that this past Sunday was the day before the opening of deer season in Pennsylvania. All the hunting related stores are mobbed with asshats who have decided to go out and hunt at the last minute.

Maybe a better reason for all the delays and confusion?


49 posted on 11/28/2012 9:56:10 PM PST by Trinity5
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To: ConservativeInPA

Having heard, today, that Big-5 Sporting Goods voluntarily uses the e-verify system to ensure that they don’t hire illegals, I’ll be throwing my sporting goods business their way from now on.


50 posted on 11/28/2012 10:38:43 PM PST by Washi
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