Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Engraved Stone Dating Back 30,000 Years Found in China
Sci-news ^ | Saturday, December 1, 2012 | Sergio Prostak

Posted on 12/01/2012 6:42:09 PM PST by SunkenCiv

Prof Xing Gao of the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology in Beijing, co-author of the paper, said: “Shuidonggou site includes 12 localities, ranging in date from Early Late to Late Paleolithic. The engraved stone artifact was found at Locality 1, which is about 30,000 years old.”

Dr Peng added: “we used a digital microscope to observe all the incisions, obtaining many 3D images. After excluding the possibility of natural cracking, trampling and animal-induced damage, and unintentional human by-products, we believe that the incisions were made by intentional behavior. Although we cannot be sure of the function of these incisions, the straight shape of each line shows that it was incised once over a short time interval without repeated cutting, implying the possibility of counting or recording at that time.”

“Furthermore, creation of such an engraved object may indicate the possible existence of complex communicative systems such as language,” he said.

“In addition to the engraved stone artifact, one ostrich egg bead was unearthed from Locality 1. The lithic assemblage of this locality includes blade production and elongated tool blanks. The blade technology was probably introduced from the Altai region of Russian Siberia, according to comparison between lithic assemblages. The flake technology is typical of the Late Paleolithic in north China.

(Excerpt) Read more at sci-news.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: china; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; paleolithic
Chinese archaeologists have discovered a stunning 30,000-year-old engraved stone artifact in a collection of stone tools unearthed at the Paleolithic site of Shuidonggou in 1980.

Engraved Stone Dating Back 30,000 Years Found in China

1 posted on 12/01/2012 6:42:23 PM PST by SunkenCiv
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]


 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


2 posted on 12/01/2012 6:45:34 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

That’s about 23,000 years before the creation of Earth!


3 posted on 12/01/2012 6:48:30 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

It’s an early example of vote counting. The Democrat won, and the results are set in stone and can’t be changed.


4 posted on 12/01/2012 6:50:18 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Global Warming is a religion, and I don't want to be taxed to pay for a faith that is not mine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Dating rocks can be a little tricky.


5 posted on 12/01/2012 6:52:24 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

does it say “Unicorn Ranch”??


6 posted on 12/01/2012 6:52:28 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Sorry dude could not resist.:>)
7 posted on 12/01/2012 6:53:34 PM PST by GSP.FAN (Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GSP.FAN

It really sez, “if the cave is a-rockin’, don’t come knockin’”.


8 posted on 12/01/2012 6:58:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

For one thing, what kind of movies do they like?


9 posted on 12/01/2012 7:00:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Looks like the Roman Empire stretched further east and farther back in time than we knew.


10 posted on 12/01/2012 7:01:50 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Stunning. Simply stunning. That’s as fine an example of rock writing as I’ve ever seen. Marvelous. Scientists everywhere can hold their heads a little higher today. The scratches are, I think, some of the best displays of bimodal attenuation ever found. Normally, you don’t find this kind of work from a young artist. The artist usually has to suffer for several years. Did they find a cut off piece of ear by it? Well, one can hope.

P.S. sunkenciv; never think that I’m making fun of you. I do appreciate what you put on Free Republic.


11 posted on 12/01/2012 7:01:55 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

“Dating rocks can be a little tricky.”
________________________________________

I’ll say......How on Earth can they determine the age of the carvings without a reference point?


12 posted on 12/01/2012 7:02:32 PM PST by AlexW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Sharpening a blade, more like. Two strokes connect like the blade came down on the right side, then the left.


13 posted on 12/01/2012 7:03:22 PM PST by Ciexyz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

Heretic! It’s 24,000!


14 posted on 12/01/2012 7:03:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

How similar are these markings to known Runic markings?


15 posted on 12/01/2012 7:07:30 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Is it a calendar that says the Mayans were wrong with their calendar?


16 posted on 12/01/2012 7:09:37 PM PST by T-Bird45 (It feels like the seventies, and it shouldn't.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

You did it now! The crazies can sense what you wrote, and will be here post-haste.


17 posted on 12/01/2012 7:14:26 PM PST by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

This would have been done during the last glaciation, towards the end. The individuals that would have done this must have been very resourceful.


18 posted on 12/01/2012 7:15:53 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf
Rune UCS Transliteration IPA Proto-Germanic name Meaning
f f /f/ *fehu "wealth, cattle"
u u /u(ː)/ ?*ūruz "aurochs" (or *ûram "water/slag"?)
th,þ þ /θ/, /ð/ ?*þurisaz "the god Thor, giant"
a a /a(ː)/ *ansuz "one of the Æsir (gods)"
r r /r/ *raidō "ride, journey"
k k /k/ ?*kaunan "ulcer"? (or *kenaz "torch"?)
g g /ɡ/ *gebō "gift"
w w /w/ *wunjō "joy"
h h ᚺ ᚻ h /h/ *hagalaz "hail" (the precipitation)
n n /n/ *naudiz "need"
i i /i(ː)/ *īsaz "ice"
j j /j/ *jēra- "year, good year, harvest"
ï,ei ï (or æ) /æː/(?) *ī(h)waz/*ei(h)waz "yew-tree"
p p /p/ ?*perþ- meaning unclear, perhaps "pear-tree".
z z /z/ ?*algiz unclear, possibly "elk".
s s s /s/ *sōwilō "Sun"
t t /t/ *tīwaz/*teiwaz "the god Tiwaz"
b b /b/ *berkanan "birch"
e e /e(ː)/ *ehwaz "horse"
m m /m/ *mannaz "Man"
l l /l/ *laguz "water, lake" (or possibly *laukaz "leek")
ŋ ŋ ŋ ᛜ ᛝ ŋ /ŋ/ *ingwaz "the god Ingwaz"
o o /o(ː)/ *ōþila-/*ōþala- "heritage, estate, possession"
d d /d/ *dagaz "day"

19 posted on 12/01/2012 7:20:50 PM PST by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

God, right this moment, can create a rock that proves, by our testing, to be sixty million years old!

How about that!


20 posted on 12/01/2012 7:22:11 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf

Rune alphabets are relatively recent ~ this rock carving is many times older than the oldest rune.


21 posted on 12/01/2012 7:32:40 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah; moose07

Did the pre-Viking Arctic Red Earth People use the Runic Language?

___________

Thanks for the quick turn around on providing an excellent reference sheet on Runes!


22 posted on 12/01/2012 7:42:56 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: AlexW
"....How on Earth can they determine the age of the carvings without a reference point?"

Actually, there would be two datapoints to look at with the carved rock.

(1) You could measure the external "oxidation" or other weathering effects on the UNCARVED area of the rock.

(2) You then measure the "oxidation" or other weathering effects on the CARVED area of the rock, and compare the two.

Since the carvings on the rock must be younger than the rock itself, the carvings would expose FRESH, UNWEATHERED rock to begin "oxidizing", you should be able to see what the difference is, and from other chemical experimental data, give an educated estimate for the time it would take to deposit that much weathering on the carved surfaces.

A real world example might be an old home with wooden trim that has been painted many times by previous occupants.

You see some wooden moulding with deep gouges in it. On the major surfaces of the wood, you strip away 8 layers of paint. In the areas with the gouges, you strip away only 3 layers of paint.

From data you gather elsewhere, you have learned that the average family repaints a room every 15 years.

3 Layers of paint in the gouges means that a 45-60 year guess for when the gouges occurred is reasonable, and backed up by testable evidence.
23 posted on 12/01/2012 7:43:22 PM PST by Rebel_Ace (Tags?!? Tags?!? We don' neeeed no stinkin' Tags!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf
no idea, but 30,000 years ago is about 28,000 years before any of the rune alphabets. Rune alphabets are merely variations on earlier alphabets, but the oldest alphabet doesn't get a start until about 3900 years ago, which makes even it a good 26,100 years later than this rock.

The markings should not be understood as part of an alphabet ~ rather, they are just markings ~ and that's the important part ~ they aren't accidental as far as anyone can tell.

24 posted on 12/01/2012 7:50:25 PM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Dating rocks can be a little tricky.

Yeah, I used to date one and I took my lumps. Seriously, what's to say the carved stone relates to other artifacts at the site? Unless there were associations that can definitely place it at 30K it's entirely possible it was left there much later than postulated. Sites that yielded knappable quartz minerals were popular with tool and point-makers during the entire stone age and drew many different visitors over long time periods.

25 posted on 12/01/2012 7:53:29 PM PST by Bernard Marx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: moose07
i was always told the one next to the Z meant Life...
26 posted on 12/01/2012 7:54:25 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Yes, there is good reason to be a bit skeptical on the dating.

In China and Japan where the majority populations usurped civilizations that predated them. There are strong social/cultural/political reasons to distort facts/dates.

Even the most transparent frauds are often go on for years, take the case of Shiniichi Fujimura in Japan:

Japanese paleolithic hoax


Of course, the West has its own biases that have led to the same type of thing on our end too, such as the Piltdown Man.
27 posted on 12/01/2012 7:56:50 PM PST by wizkid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Bread
milk
eggs
beer
28 posted on 12/01/2012 7:57:47 PM PST by Conservative4Ever (I'm going Galt.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

Awesome!


29 posted on 12/01/2012 8:01:09 PM PST by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Isn’t Cuneiform around 5000 years old?


30 posted on 12/01/2012 8:02:48 PM PST by EEGator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Chode
Not able to locate that translation, but it just should do shouldn't it! :)
31 posted on 12/01/2012 8:06:58 PM PST by moose07 (The truth will out, one day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf; Ciexyz

More like ogham markings, but the excavator looks like he’s onto something with the idea that someone was keeping track of something (days, rains, something). OTOH, Ciexyz may be onto something, despite the lack of metal at that time.


32 posted on 12/01/2012 8:42:42 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv
Heretic! It’s 24,000!

No, not really, hold the lighter bfore you step to the stake. I used to know the age of the earth to the year (something around 6,245, with an October birthday), but I forgot and am unable to locate the scientific sources, so if you have them, please show us the links.


33 posted on 12/01/2012 8:47:29 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

Im still trying to figure out how they dated the rock...


34 posted on 12/01/2012 9:10:44 PM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TheBattman

Don’t they have age rings?


35 posted on 12/01/2012 9:14:13 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

” - - - this artifact is made of siliceous limestone - - - “

This lithology will be softer than a marker that is pure chert (flint), or a marker that is pure quartz. All of these potential markers are commonly found associated with silicious limestone.

The relatively uniform width of the markings is consistent with a marking tool that does not wear significantly from start to finish of a marking, or marking to marking. Thus, the marking tool has a hardness greater than a limestone with up to 99.999 % Silica.

The small size of the marked stone could have been easily carried in the hand of the individual.

Uses, without more information on the wear patterns of the rock, are best treated as speculations.

BTW, why did it take 32 years for the Chinese to get around to publishing this paper?

BTW, BTW, what is the stratigraphic, weathered rind, or “other” evidence that the 30KYBP dating is based upon?


36 posted on 12/01/2012 9:36:45 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Looks like something was dragged across the rock. I think you have to know the total surroundings to even make a wild guess.


37 posted on 12/01/2012 9:39:36 PM PST by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

This rock only 2.7 inches long....suitable for holding in the hand...but purpose?? I see none...still think drag marks


38 posted on 12/01/2012 9:45:03 PM PST by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: moose07
i don't remember where i saw it/was told(long time ago) but the upright one was life and the upside down one was death

like i said, it was a long time ago

39 posted on 12/01/2012 9:47:01 PM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

In the future we’ll be implanting cheeps into rocks, like we currently implant into dogs and cats, to hold and collect (not necessarily in that order) data for use by future generations of scientists.


40 posted on 12/01/2012 9:49:11 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

The date usually attributed to Bishop Ussher is 4004 BC, iow 6016 years ago, plus a month or so. Off with your head!


41 posted on 12/01/2012 9:51:00 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf

Not sure, but likely was done by the tool types in the same context.


42 posted on 12/01/2012 10:08:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

High quality Carbon dating might go back for 30KY. I read somewhere that the limit was 45KYBP, but don’t quote me.

The Carbon in the Ostrich shell and possible wood fragments in the strata with the marked stone might provide enough Carbon to measure the Carbon ratios with statistical confidence.

This is a significant find, if it really is valid, as the dawn of literature will have been pushed back by at least 5 X.

At this time Central Europe was a Polar desert.

It will be interesting to find out the elevation of this site.


43 posted on 12/01/2012 10:23:09 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Graewoulf

The practical limit for RC dating of a field sample is about 50K before present, a perfect theoretical sample (whatever that is) the limit is about 60K (the equipment’s more sensitive now).


44 posted on 12/01/2012 10:27:22 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: SunkenCiv

Thanks! I was in the ballpark, which shores up my confidence in my memory just a tad.

Now I can quote you!


45 posted on 12/01/2012 10:31:41 PM PST by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: T-Bird45
"Is it a calendar that says the Mayans were wrong with their calendar?"

Photobucket

46 posted on 12/02/2012 7:06:12 AM PST by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson