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'Lincoln' Cussing: What the F@*&! Is Up With This S#@?!
hollywoodreporter ^ | 7:30 AM PST 12/5/2012 | by Paul Bond

Posted on 12/06/2012 10:26:35 AM PST by BenLurkin

Movieguide, which reviews films from a Christian perspective, says there are about 40 obscenities in the PG-13 Lincoln, including 10 uses of “goddamn.” Similarly, the Dove Foundation laments that “the language they feature in the film … does not line up with the morals and language of the time period.”

“The historical record is clear that Lincoln definitely did not tolerate profanity around him,” Barton says. “There are records of him confronting military generals if he heard about them cursing. Furthermore, the F-word used by Bilbo was virtually nonexistent in that day and it definitely would not have been used around Lincoln. If Lincoln had heard it, it is certain that he would instantly have delivered a severe rebuke.”

(Excerpt) Read more at hollywoodreporter.com ...


TOPICS: History; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: fword
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1 posted on 12/06/2012 10:26:37 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

Bilbo?? I was thinking of another film which has a character named Bilbo coming out soon.

As for the film Lincoln, I have not seen it, but it does not surprise me that Hollywood would add some foul language for no good reason at all.


2 posted on 12/06/2012 10:30:52 AM PST by LovedSinner
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To: BenLurkin

Spielberg also has Lincoln “defending” the post modern definition of “justice” that would have been roundly laughed at in the mid 1860’s.

Revisioniost history to protect a socialist agenda.


3 posted on 12/06/2012 10:30:57 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Bread and Circuses; Everyone to the Coliseum!)
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To: BenLurkin
Somewhere I read the “F” word didn't come into or vocabulary until the late 1800’s (1899+)and early 1900’s. Swearing back in Lincoln's time was more descriptive than single words.
4 posted on 12/06/2012 10:31:23 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: BenLurkin

The Lincoln Administration was a profanity in and of itself.


5 posted on 12/06/2012 10:35:00 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BenLurkin
***Furthermore, the F-word used by Bilbo was virtually nonexistent in that day***

I like historical movies as there is rarely any real cursing in them. Now the screen writers have made the ancients curse in modern drivel. I refuse to watch STARZ' SPARTACUS for that very reason.

George Washington

“The General is sorry to be informed that the foolish, and wicked practice, of profane cursing and swearing (a Vice heretofore little known in an American Army) is growing into fashion; he hopes the officers will, by example, as well as influence, endeavour to check it, and that both they, and the men will reflect, that we can have little hopes of the blessing of Heaven on our Arms, if we insult it by our impiety, and folly; added to this, it is a vice so mean and low, without any temptation, that every man of sense, and character, detests and despises it.

Head Quarters, New York, August 3rd 1776. Parole Uxbridge. Countersign Virginia”

― George Washington

6 posted on 12/06/2012 10:36:47 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: BenLurkin

I have not seen it, but I’m beginning to think it’s a propaganda film designed to change our opinion of (yet another) cultural hero.


7 posted on 12/06/2012 10:37:08 AM PST by DBrow
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To: SkyDancer

The “F” word has been around for a long time, but it was previously known as an acronym: For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge and was painted on the stockades of people who committed adultery.

Its use as a word wasn’t really widespread until the 20th century and was generally meant to mean “sex.”


8 posted on 12/06/2012 10:42:22 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: BenLurkin

It always strikes me as odd how modern filmmakers making period films are so extremely keen on getting the “visual” side of history and its accompanying mise-en-scene correct for their eras... yet don’t have the slightest regards for language, comportment, attitude, and worldview.

Comportment is particularly off, a lot of times in these historical-based films, with actors who just reek of a modern sensibility, and demonstrate it in the manner in which they walk and talk.


9 posted on 12/06/2012 10:43:53 AM PST by greene66
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To: SkyDancer

The F word dates back to the Middle Ages at least and is probably much older (the German, Norwegian and Dutch languages that are related to or have had influence on the English Language in Anglo-Saxon times have similar words meaning the same thing as the ‘F’ Word).

It could not have survived until the 1890s unless it was in common usage outside of polite society. Back in the 1860s, it would probably have been seen as so far beyond the pale that its use would not have been typically recorded in documentary evidence, but it must have been used, or else it would have been lost. Not everyone was a lady or a gentleman back then...


10 posted on 12/06/2012 10:45:01 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: DBrow; SeaDragon
According to SD, it is a 2.5 hour homage to the passage of the 13th ammendment, and not only that, it was a boring homage!
11 posted on 12/06/2012 10:47:03 AM PST by RikaStrom ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." ~Voltaire)
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To: rarestia
The "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" story (as well as the other one, "Fornication Under Consent of the King") is a false etymology, invented after the fact, probably during the craze for initials in the early 1900s.

The word derives from Middle English "fucken" (to strike), German "ficken", and Low German "fokken", which means exactly the same thing as the "f" word.

12 posted on 12/06/2012 10:47:19 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: BenLurkin

Indeed.

I have read many letters from soldiers in the field from that time period.
Not only is there a total absence of Cursing, but the handwriting is clean and legible, and the grammar is correct. A large vocabulary and an erudite means of self-expression seem to have been in abundance even in the simple, lonely thoughts of a common soldier.

While a man would have been less likely to curse in a letter to home, the general tone of the letters indicates a much higher plane of self-expression than what we have today.

I am convinced that there has been concerted and organized effort on the part of Hollywood to coarsen and debase our culture.


13 posted on 12/06/2012 10:48:56 AM PST by left that other site (Worry is the Darkroom that Develops Negatives.)
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To: BenLurkin

Haven’t seen the movie. But recently was reading about one of the Union generals (Reynolds?) who was especially renowned for his ability to swear a blue streak.


14 posted on 12/06/2012 10:50:08 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: AnAmericanMother

Interesting. Learn something new every day.


15 posted on 12/06/2012 10:50:37 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: greene66

To be honest, if they made the film using authentic dialogue from the day, the educated classes would be so verbose as to become baffling and tiresome to listen to, whereas the lower classes would be virtually unintelligible with their thick accents and use of words that have long since fallen into disuse. Unless their name is Mel Gibson, most Hollywood directors are going to make a compromise so that audiences can actually understand what the characters are saying...


16 posted on 12/06/2012 10:50:48 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: left that other site
there has been concerted and organized effort on the part of Hollywood to coarsen and debase our culture

And it has succeeded.

17 posted on 12/06/2012 10:51:14 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: rarestia
Sorry but that's not correct. The word goes back to early German and Danish times. The "F" word used today is a corruption of the early words.

There are several urban-legend false etymologies postulating an acronymic origin for the word. None of these acronyms was ever recorded before the 1960s, according to the authoritative lexicographical work The F-Word, and thus are backronyms.

18 posted on 12/06/2012 10:51:34 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: rarestia
Sorry but that's not correct. The word goes back to early German and Danish times. The "F" word used today is a corruption of the early words.

There are several urban-legend false etymologies postulating an acronymic origin for the word. None of these acronyms was ever recorded before the 1960s, according to the authoritative lexicographical work The F-Word, and thus are backronyms.

19 posted on 12/06/2012 10:54:42 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Not that I use wikipedia all that much but there’s a great article on it there. Seems trustworthy, lots of footnotes on it.


20 posted on 12/06/2012 10:57:48 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

It’s also worth noting that it did not appear in any of the “thieves’ slang” dictionaries of the time.


21 posted on 12/06/2012 10:59:07 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

True, as far as language goes. But I’m referring more to comportment and manner, which I personally find undercuts my acceptance of ‘buying into’ such period films. Even if the period being represented is as recent as the 1940s or 1950s. Actors nowadays tend to have that sloop-shouldered appearance, and the air of ‘detached irony’ which tend to wildly conflict with vintage eras. That just don’t jibe.


22 posted on 12/06/2012 11:00:17 AM PST by greene66
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To: left that other site

***I am convinced that there has been concerted and organized effort on the part of Hollywood to coarsen and debase our culture.***

This began in the 1960s when the hippies and anti=war traitors began to force crude language on the public. Beore this time anyone saying “F” or “S” or even worse, “m*****f*****” in front of women or in mixed company would have been taken out to the back alley and given an attitude adjustment.

And no, Cowboys did not dance and say “BULLS**T” at the same time.


23 posted on 12/06/2012 11:01:10 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

>> the educated classes would be so verbose

Even something as recent as Atlas Shrugged from half a century ago. In the audiobook version read by Scott Brick,
John Galt’s speech lasts about 2 and a half hours.

Seriously.

I did see the film and enjoyed it; I can imagine maybe some profanity may have occurred when not in mixed company. Lincoln
was telling a story about a portrait of George Washington in a toilet in Britain: “there’s nothing that makes an
Englishman s-— faster that seeing him”. He is among
men in a telegraph room, I believe (or a “situation room”?)

Interesting story though one review wondered if it should have been called “Passage of the 13th Amendment”. The assassination isn’t covered other than Tad Lincoln getting the news while at a children’s performance but for those
curious about it there’s Killing Lincoln, a book by Bill
O’Reilly and Martin Dugard.


24 posted on 12/06/2012 11:01:17 AM PST by raccoonradio
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To: SkyDancer

I took my lumps in a previous post. Thank you for the supplementals.


25 posted on 12/06/2012 11:03:26 AM PST by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Yes. I was a teenager during those years and remember each increment as it happened.


26 posted on 12/06/2012 11:05:24 AM PST by left that other site (Worry is the Darkroom that Develops Negatives.)
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To: BenLurkin
WTF? Honest Abe never swore when he teamed up with Kirk and Spock. Spielberg can check the Captain's Log on that! (Stardate 5906.4, btw)


27 posted on 12/06/2012 11:08:16 AM PST by montag813
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To: rarestia

Interesting. I read a quotation from a transcript of a civil case in which John Adams was the lawyer for the accused. The accused said, at on point, “I fu&%ed her.” I was quite surprised.


28 posted on 12/06/2012 11:08:35 AM PST by Doctor 2Brains
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To: AnAmericanMother

Did the ‘c’ word appear? I know that that has an even earlier recorded history than the ‘F’ word and has definitely been around for at least as long. (Although having said that, many medieval streets in England that were places were prostitutes plied their trade were called things like ‘Gropec*** Lane’, perhaps there was a time when the ‘F’ word was considered much worse than the ‘C’ word...


29 posted on 12/06/2012 11:09:53 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: BenLurkin

Remember Moochelle Obama saying we have to change our history?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4WGsU-BHAg


30 posted on 12/06/2012 11:10:31 AM PST by patriotsblood
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To: BenLurkin

I am not a customer of Hollywood or socialist media.


31 posted on 12/06/2012 11:12:22 AM PST by fattigermaster
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

No, but Abe was pretty agile and athletic and knew a cunning array of stunts...


32 posted on 12/06/2012 11:13:47 AM PST by Hatteras
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To: rarestia
No worries. I really don't like to get into too much disputing of things but when something like this jumps up I have to put my two cents worth in. :)
33 posted on 12/06/2012 11:17:16 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: raccoonradio

What Lincoln may not have known is that George Washington was a hero to many Englishmen as well as Americans. The Whigs were cheering on the revolutionaries and their de-facto leader during the time, Charles Fox (who later became Foreign Secratary) actually dressed up in Blue in House of Commons to express his sympathies (he hated the Tories and George III with a passion).

If Lincoln did make this joke, it makes you wonder why he didn’t tolerate army officers swearing (assuming there were no women/children present). Maybe he thought that discussing war strategies was too solemn an occasion for swearing to be appropriate...


34 posted on 12/06/2012 11:17:31 AM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

It is still in use in the Netherlands. On papers of purebred horses imported from the Netherlands, the breeder is referred to as the “fokker.”


35 posted on 12/06/2012 11:40:45 AM PST by Help!
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I enjoyed “Deadwood,” about the Old West and Wild Bill and such, which had characters using contemporary swear words, and often. There was an excuse: that old-timey swears sound old-timey to us. Using our swears provide the right effect, if not historical accuracy.

This movie us different, in that though Lincoln was born a backwoodsman, it takes place in genteel society.


36 posted on 12/06/2012 11:43:43 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

The “C” word (see you next tuesday)goes at least back to Middle English—check out Chaucer’s Miller’s Tale—IIRC, the use of the term “quaint honour” in Marvell’s “To His Coy Mistress” is a reference to virginity.


37 posted on 12/06/2012 12:29:30 PM PST by cooperj
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To: patriotsblood

Ha! They don’t even have to hide it anymore, I guess. Unfortunately, what they are doing in the public schools is even worse.


38 posted on 12/06/2012 12:42:48 PM PST by D_Idaho ("For we wrestle not against flesh and blood...")
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To: SkyDancer; All
“Somewhere I read the “F” word didn't come into or vocabulary until the late 1800’s (1899+)and early 1900’s”

I don't know where you got your information, but the F word meaning sexual intercourse has been in the English common language for at least 1000 years. The word is used in Chaucer's “The Canterbury Tales” (The Miller's Tale, precisely), from the 1100s and it was an ancient word then.

Perhaps what gets some people confused is that prior to the 20th century, the word was ONLY used to mean sexual intercourse; not as a utterance closer in meaning to “damn,” or a noun meaning a cheap sex partner, etc.

39 posted on 12/06/2012 12:47:43 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
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To: greene66
It always strikes me as odd how modern filmmakers making period films are so extremely keen on getting the “visual” side of history and its accompanying mise-en-scene correct for their eras... yet don’t have the slightest regards for language, comportment, attitude, and worldview.

It's called being shallow.
40 posted on 12/06/2012 12:50:01 PM PST by Vision (Obama is king of the "Takers." Don't be a "Taker.")
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To: ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
In old German it also meant to plow a furrow. Yes the word in various forms has been used to connotate sex but not in the modern version used today. There's just too many urban legends out there proposing the entomology of its origen.
41 posted on 12/06/2012 1:02:26 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: SkyDancer; All
“There are several urban-legend false etymologies postulating an acronymic origin for the word...”

EXACTLY. They were told as JOKES about the word back in the 60s! That revision of the origin also applies to the modern dictionaries so-called etymological history of the word. While it's definitely Germanic in origin (remember the Angles; Saxons, and Jutes?), it is unlikely that the word came from words meaning “to strike”, etc (it's more probable that those words evolved from the vulgar one!)

F-ck is one of several ancient words (many considered vulgar) that are echoic in origin, another such word is “piss.”

42 posted on 12/06/2012 1:05:20 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
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To: SkyDancer
“There's just too many urban legends out there proposing the entomology of its origen.”

I got my information from a couple of courses on the history of the English language taken at Virginia Tech back in 1975.

43 posted on 12/06/2012 1:16:48 PM PST by ROLF of the HILL COUNTRY
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To: fattigermaster
"I am not a customer of Hollywood or socialist media."
"Steven Spielberg Gives President Obama Super PAC $1 Million ..."
I think you are in the minority around here, unfortunately.
$$$$$$$$$$$$

44 posted on 12/06/2012 1:30:19 PM PST by wolficatZ (Hey blue states....Got Food?)
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To: central_va

I’m a Confederate descendant; parents took me to Shiloh (where my great, great, grandfather fought) several times when I was a kid - back when the Bloody Pond was still blood colored. I wasn’t raised with Lincoln being the sainted hero of history; my grandfather and dad thought that Lincoln could have averted that war and should have.

At this point, I have all I can do to try to survive Hussein’s reign of overbearance without arguing with the Northern Mythology of the War. It’s my hope it will ALL be shouted from the housetops in the next life, including Johnson’s degrading the black family with Daddy Sugar’s Waw on Poverty.


45 posted on 12/06/2012 1:49:42 PM PST by Twinkie (The WICKED walk on every side when EVIL men are exalted. Psalm 12:8)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
Not everyone was a lady or a gentleman back then...

Certainly, not all of my ancestors were perfect ladies and gentlemen.

Some of them were not even vertrebrates.

46 posted on 12/06/2012 2:24:03 PM PST by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan
To be honest, if they made the film using authentic dialogue from the day, the educated classes would be so verbose as to become baffling and tiresome to listen to, whereas the lower classes would be virtually unintelligible with their thick accents and use of words that have long since fallen into disuse. Unless their name is Mel Gibson, most Hollywood directors are going to make a compromise so that audiences can actually understand what the characters are saying...
I noted two things about the language the characters used:
  1. Lincoln using profanity. Not much, but any at all seemed out of character.

  2. Black soldiers who were willing to risk seeming impertinent to the POTUS, on the one hand, and who were well-spoken and without southern accent on the other. That struck me as out of character given the backgrounds of the people in question.
In reality, even as late as the 1960s, blacks had enough difference in their backgrounds from whites as to make them seem unintelligent. Affirmative action’s rationale was to transcend that apparent discrepancy. But now, of course, it is simply a racket in which peoples’ rice bowls are entailed. When a black can be elected POTUS, exactly where is the glass ceiling supposed to be??

47 posted on 12/06/2012 3:21:13 PM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which “liberalism" coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
I noted two things about the language the characters used: Lincoln using profanity. Not much, but any at all seemed out of character. Black soldiers who were willing to risk seeming impertinent to the POTUS, on the one hand, and who were well-spoken and without southern accent on the other. That struck me as out of character given the backgrounds of the people in question.

Lincoln might have sworn, but obviously he wouldn't have been effing and blinding when giving speeches or interacting with the public. As for the black soldiers, they weren't all illiterate former slaves, some where educated free blacks from the North. I doubt most black soldiers would have been well-educated, but no doubt some of them were.

48 posted on 12/06/2012 4:57:38 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: BenLurkin
I guess "dadburned" and "dadgummed" didn't pack the punch Spielberg wanted ...

I can see Lincoln using "blast" and "accursed," even "damned" to mean cursed or condemned.

But "g*dd*m" and "sh*t" probably aren't things he said as president (what do I know, though?)

FWIW "Dadgummed" dates only to the 1940s according to the dictionary. "Dadburned" is authentic, going back to the 1820s.

49 posted on 12/06/2012 5:07:58 PM PST by x
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To: BenLurkin

Obama was compared to linclon, so now they’re revising linclon to fit Obama.


50 posted on 12/06/2012 5:11:45 PM PST by MaxMax
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