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Bullwhip to train horses (Vanity)
me | 12/6/2012 | Reaganaut

Posted on 12/06/2012 5:50:33 PM PST by reaganaut

My mother's neighbors who are illegal aliens and La Raza, own a couple of horses, they aren't fed well and today they were out 'training' them making them run around a small corral and hitting them with a bull whip.

My mother and I don't think this is normal or right, so we decided to ask here on FR. Any suggestions? Should we report them?


TOPICS: Agriculture; Outdoors; Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: horses; illegals
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1 posted on 12/06/2012 5:50:35 PM PST by reaganaut
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To: reaganaut

Take one step at a time. First call the Humane Society and/or the ASPCA and report them.


2 posted on 12/06/2012 5:52:36 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: reaganaut
Not likely you can do anything, unless the horses are being denied food, water, shelter, or medical care. Depending on the State where you live, of course.

If you are in Illinois, I can point you to some people who would be willing to come out and train the "trainers." Otherwise, you can contact a horse rescue and ask them to do the same. Two things: they probably are not breaking the law, and not every rescue shelter knows what it is doing.

3 posted on 12/06/2012 5:55:16 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: reaganaut

Was it a real genuine bull whip or a common buggy whip available at any hardware or feed store.

It is normal to use a buggy whip to get them moving.


4 posted on 12/06/2012 5:56:06 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (The parasites now outnumber the producers.)
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To: reaganaut

Obviously you are racists and Latinophobes, so make a anonymous phone call to the county animal control, from a pay phone while wearing a pointy white hood.


5 posted on 12/06/2012 5:56:47 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: reaganaut

The ASPCA and the Humane Society won’t do crap for you, they don’t have training or the facilities. They might ask you for a donation, though.


6 posted on 12/06/2012 5:57:01 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: miss marmelstein

If they are illegal report them for that.


7 posted on 12/06/2012 5:57:11 PM PST by fudimo
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To: reaganaut

Call the ASPCA or Humane Society in your area, just express your concern.


8 posted on 12/06/2012 5:58:42 PM PST by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

It was a real bull whip.


9 posted on 12/06/2012 5:58:51 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: fudimo

Oh we have, and for other code violations. It is just one thing after another with these clowns.

My first thought was to call Animal Control.


10 posted on 12/06/2012 6:00:09 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: 1rudeboy

Sadly, it is California not Illinois.


11 posted on 12/06/2012 6:00:56 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: 1rudeboy

As a volunteer with my local ASPCA, I can tell you that they do alot of good and will investigate animal abuse charges.


12 posted on 12/06/2012 6:01:43 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: reaganaut
1)Report that someone admitted they were an illegal alien.
2)Report that you saw one of them having sex with the animal.
3)Report that you were concerned with the health and safety of the animals. 4)Report that you were concerned with the health and safety of the 'childern'. 5)All of the above.
13 posted on 12/06/2012 6:03:44 PM PST by Theoria (Romney is a Pyrrhic victory.)
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To: reaganaut

These people need to be reported yesterday.

Bullwhips are NOT meant for hitting animals. They are primarily used to make noise to direct herds of cattle. You could get the same result with a gunshot, but of course then you’d be wasting a lot of ammunition.

Cattle handlers don’t use bullwhips to hit the animals because the whip will damage the hide. A direct hit by a bullwhip can break human bones.

You can use a bullwhip to train a horse, but only in so far as you learn to crack it properly (and safely) in order to control the horse with the sound.

Many people are not aware the the crack of a bullwhip is actually a sonic boom. The force of energy going through a cracking bull whip actually breaks the sound barrier at a certain point in the cracking motion, and that’s what causes the sound.

That’s a lot of power for any living creature to be hit with.


14 posted on 12/06/2012 6:04:24 PM PST by Maceman
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To: miss marmelstein

And you’ve probably never seen them rescue a horse.


15 posted on 12/06/2012 6:05:35 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Theoria

I like that. I may just do exactly that.


16 posted on 12/06/2012 6:05:35 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: Maceman

Thank you. This happened today and my mother is reading this thread, so they will get reported first thing in the morning.


17 posted on 12/06/2012 6:06:56 PM PST by reaganaut (Kyrie eleison...Christe eleison...Kyrie eleison)
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To: reaganaut

How about PETA ,,, PEOPLE for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of ANIMALS . Perhaps they will arrest the horse for not responding correctly to the illegals for reasons of racism .

Do you know if the horse was an illegal alien also,, if so forget about the whole thing .


18 posted on 12/06/2012 6:07:07 PM PST by Lionheartusa1 (-: Socialism is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: reaganaut

In Texas, the sheriff’s department normally handles cruelty to livestock. I would call them as I imagine California has cruelty laws pertaining to horses as well as others.


19 posted on 12/06/2012 6:11:26 PM PST by KGeorge
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To: 1rudeboy

Don’t count on that.


20 posted on 12/06/2012 6:12:51 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: reaganaut

Check your FRmail.


21 posted on 12/06/2012 6:13:42 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: KGeorge

This may be a lunge whip — if so, it’s perfectly fine. A lunge whip is not used to hit the horse, but to direct it as the horse is lunged or free lunged (without a lunge line). if, however, the animals are being struck by a real whip, that is abuse.


22 posted on 12/06/2012 6:14:19 PM PST by freepertoo
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To: miss marmelstein

Next time you volunteer, ask your boss where the nearest ASPCA horse shelter is. I’m curious . . . I’ve never seen one.


23 posted on 12/06/2012 6:15:44 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: reaganaut

Not sure where in CA you are located but maybe this link will help. Contact a local rescue, near where this is happening. Most rescues are well informed of local animal cruelty laws and may have accepted or rescued animals in that location in the past. Some Mexicans are notoriously bad horsemen...ever heard of “horse tripping” or “Mexican rodeos”....nasty. Get these animals help right away, they can’t do it themselves!

http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/CA-HorseRescues.html


24 posted on 12/06/2012 6:15:44 PM PST by soozla
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To: reaganaut

Videotape the activity and then send it to PETA, expressing your concern.


25 posted on 12/06/2012 6:16:13 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: reaganaut
Real bull whip? Call the Sheriff. See http://www.anapsid.org/pettrade/penalcode.html (esp 597(b) — violations include “deprives of necessary sustenance, drink, or shelter, cruelly beats” any animal).
26 posted on 12/06/2012 6:19:01 PM PST by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: reaganaut

Call EVERYBODY, like YESTERDAY. Sheriff, ASPCA, etc.


27 posted on 12/06/2012 6:20:10 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: reaganaut

Call EVERYBODY, like YESTERDAY. Sheriff, ASPCA, etc.


28 posted on 12/06/2012 6:20:26 PM PST by RitaOK ( VIVA CHRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: 1rudeboy

I didn’t write that the ASPCA keeps “horse shelters,” lol. I said they would investigate charges of abuse. Well, at least my place does.


29 posted on 12/06/2012 6:24:19 PM PST by miss marmelstein
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To: reaganaut

My God,report them.

Animal Rescue League is my fave.

.


30 posted on 12/06/2012 6:24:39 PM PST by Mears
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To: reaganaut

Were the animals acually struck by the whip? Or was it simply cracked above them?


31 posted on 12/06/2012 6:25:59 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: reaganaut
The only thing they are accomplishing with the bull whip is to teach the horses to be terrified of humans. I think the idiots were showing off!
32 posted on 12/06/2012 6:26:55 PM PST by Ditter
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To: miss marmelstein
Investigate, and ask for donations. They do a fine job of it. Please don't misunderstand, some of the work that ASPCA does is worthwhile, and I'm sure your work is appreciated.

I appreciate your work also . . . I'm just the guy with mud/manure up to his knees. :)

33 posted on 12/06/2012 6:30:36 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: reaganaut
If it didn't draw blood, it probably isn't abuse in the eyes of the law.

I've used a dressage whip often enough in a round pen. Training a horse isn't always pretty.

A pro doing some work for us:

Internet photo:


34 posted on 12/06/2012 6:32:42 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: reaganaut

A lunge whip is like a cross between a bull whip and a buggy whip.

It is a proper tool for exercising or training a horse that does not have a rider. The horse is in a long line (lunge line) and is kept moving in a circle by following it with the whip. The whip is generally flopped along the ground behind the horse, occasionally making a sound. It is rarely, if ever, used to actually strike the horse, and never in an overhand motion.

Whatever they were doing was not proper...but as others have said may not constitute abuse. (and there story is likely to be a lot better than what you saw.)


35 posted on 12/06/2012 6:35:09 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Maceman

Makes me want to watch “Man From Snowy River” again. Boy that guy could ride.


36 posted on 12/06/2012 6:37:43 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: rabidralph

Get it on video, and be as unobtrusive about it as you can. Be sure to make copies of the video, and keep the original. Contact your local police dept., and make no mention of the people being illegals-just tell them about the animal abuse, and insist on a copy of the Police Report. Also, contact your local ASPCA, Animal Rescue League, or horse rescue organization. Call a local veterinarian who specializes in equines-if you don’t know of one who does, or if you have a pet, call your own Vet and ask what to do about the situation. Document everything, and keep copies.

I’ve worked with horses for years, and an actual bullwhip should never be used on horses..that’s flat-out abuse. A Dressage whip is basically a thin flexible shaft that’s about the width of a finger, about 6 or so feet long, with a lash that’s about the same length. It can be used to tap the horse lightly, or the lash can be snapped in the air to make a “crack” sound that gets the horse’s attention. A bullwhip is a whole different ball game, and is definitely abusive.

On behalf of the horses involved, thank you for your concern about them. Please keep us informed!!!


37 posted on 12/06/2012 6:39:15 PM PST by Radagast the Fool (A)
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To: reaganaut

How John Lyons works them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXGLMEpXAr0


38 posted on 12/06/2012 6:40:19 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Triple

Most animal abuse laws have exceptions for training stock animals. No blood, no foul is usually the way it will work.

I’m fond of my mare, and she thinks I’m the best human going, but I’ve made contact with her working her in a round pen. And there are horses I wouldn’t hesitate to make contact with, depending on their behavior.


39 posted on 12/06/2012 6:44:51 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: reaganaut

Are you sure they were being hit? Round pen training does use a whip but not to hit the horses with but to get them to pay attention to change in command.


40 posted on 12/06/2012 6:45:42 PM PST by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: reaganaut
Are you sure it isn't a lunge whip?

How to Train Your Horse to Lunge on a Line : How to Hold a Whip ... Youtube video

41 posted on 12/06/2012 6:45:52 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: reaganaut

"Hurts, don't it?"
42 posted on 12/06/2012 6:46:40 PM PST by RandallFlagg ("Liberalism is about as progressive as CANCER" -Alfonzo Rachel)
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To: Radagast the Fool

Get it on video from an angle which does not reveal that it was taken from your mother’s house but clearly shows the neighbor’s address. Be sure to make copies of the video, and keep the original. Send copies with no return address to every law enforcement agency with possible jurisdiction. Using a proxy server to hide your IP address, and under a false identity to protect yourself from retribution, obtain a GMAIL/YouTube account, a Facebook account, and accounts on various forums such as this one. Upload the video and post it all around the Internet under the heading: OMG! Look what I ran across on the Internet. Use your new GMail account to email the video to every journalist you can. Using a payphone, call immigration. Open a cold beer and watch the fun.


43 posted on 12/06/2012 6:54:33 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio)
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To: Mr Rogers

The lunge whip is used properly by snapping it well behind the horse to motivate him.

If you can’t get them moving properly that way, walking out and behind them is next. If you have to strike the horse with the whip, you are doing something wrong.

A crack well behind them is all it sound take for them to advance gates. If they are just learning, perhaps a snap on the rear.

If you were to watch it done properly, you probably wouldn’t know the horse has hit. (and no way would it have any chance of hurting the horse.)


44 posted on 12/06/2012 6:54:58 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Mr Rogers

The lunge whip is used properly by snapping it well behind the horse to motivate him.

If you can’t get them moving properly that way, walking out and behind them is next. If you have to strike the horse with the whip, you are doing something wrong.

A crack well behind them is all it should take for them to advance gates. If they are just learning, perhaps a snap on the rear.

If you were to watch it done properly, you probably wouldn’t know the horse has hit. (and no way would it have any chance of hurting the horse.)


45 posted on 12/06/2012 6:55:38 PM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: reaganaut

We used buggy whips with all of our’s (eight) to train them for all kinds of things.


46 posted on 12/06/2012 6:59:03 PM PST by youngidiot (God help us.)
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To: reaganaut

I’d doubt that they were hitting it directly because that would only cause resistance and might damage the horse.

Normally when you train with a whip you snap it behind or near the horse to get his attention, and only flick him with it to direct him occasionally.

Trainers usually use a light lunge whip, but in some places, such as Florida, experienced trainers may use a leather cattle whip and crack it (hence the Florida cowboy name, Crackers).

I think they use a long leather lash in Mexico, too, but they don’t beat the horse with it. El Jefe would have their hide if they did...


47 posted on 12/06/2012 7:03:12 PM PST by livius
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To: reaganaut
My mother's neighbors who are illegal aliens and La Raza

Report them to the INS and when they don't do anything shoot the illegals.

48 posted on 12/06/2012 7:03:35 PM PST by Eaker (Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” — Robert A. Heinlein.)
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To: Triple

What it takes to train a horse depends on the horse. Without knowing what the horse the OP posted was doing, and without seeing what happened, I don’t know if there was abuse or not. But if you have a dominant horse, then the training might not be very pretty at times.

In turn, the laws are usually written in a way that allows ranchers and those training large animals considerable freedom. As I said, in most cases, no blood, no foul in the eyes of the law.

Branding cattle (or horses) isn’t pretty, but neither is it illegal.


49 posted on 12/06/2012 7:05:11 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: reaganaut

I question your report.


50 posted on 12/06/2012 7:07:10 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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