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Bought Car in Ca. Cheaply, Now Mn. Wants More Tax Money!! (Help)
Me | 12/8/2012 | Me

Posted on 12/08/2012 3:50:23 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001

So I saw this deal on a nice car on an Automotive enthusist's website. The car was in California, I am in Minnesota.

I agree to buy the car, fly down 1-way, check out the car and do the following:

- Write up a purchase agreement for the amount (I have a copy).

- Give him a Bank Cashier's Check for the full amount (I have a copy).

- We go to the DMV in Ca., do all the paperwork and I drive home to Mn. (I have a copy).

Now the problem....

Minnesota says the car is much more than what I payed for it... like $5,000 more. (Well, NO KIDDING, it was a deal, that's why I went to that extent to get it!)

Minnesota will not give me the clear title for the car until I pay several hundred more.

Can they really do this?

Isn't there some Commerce Clause?

I payed in full for the transaction and the transaction is complete!!

This was a YEAR ago and I do not want to give them more money if not necessary!


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Local News
KEYWORDS: taxes; vehicletax
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Please help if you can. This Government gone greedy. Thank you.
1 posted on 12/08/2012 3:50:28 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

More info: I payed Ca. Tax on the vehicle for that sale price.

Now, Mn. wants to charge me 7.5% on the difference on what I payed for it and what their books say it’s worth.

Geez.


2 posted on 12/08/2012 3:56:38 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Yep, sounds about right. Most states are not obligated to accept the purchase price as the value of the car for tax purposes. This prevents cash (or partial cash transactions) to avoid sales tax.


3 posted on 12/08/2012 4:04:12 AM PST by O6ret
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Yep. Shouldn’t have paid CA tax since you don’t live there. As to the value, they are the govt and that is life.


4 posted on 12/08/2012 4:04:55 AM PST by rstrahan
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

I’ve known of a couple of cases like that over my life. Generally, some states (limited number)...have a law they put into effect that guarantees the pricing at or near the Blue-Book price. It’s a protective practice because they know that some guys arrange a deal where they pay $1k less on the book price but slip the $1k under the table with no receipt. So the state is merely protecting itself on getting what they perceive as “their fair share”.

I would suspect, unless you can show damage or a reason why the pricing was under the Blue-Book value....they’ve got you.


5 posted on 12/08/2012 4:06:13 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: rstrahan

Ca. made me pay tax there when doing the transaction...


6 posted on 12/08/2012 4:06:37 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
I had the MO DMV try to do the same thing to me once, when I bought an old MG for $700.00.

The clerk said "That sounds too cheap". I told her the transmission was in a box in the trunk in about a hundred pieces, and that was the end of that conversation.

7 posted on 12/08/2012 4:08:51 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Anytime you go register a vehicle in whatever state, they have the price of each vehicle and the tax levied against it...good thing you got a deal out in CA - because it looks like you’ll break even now that you are back in MN...I’ve encountered the same thing in different states I have lived in - and yes - the value of the car can raise or lower the registration and taxes...

If you had been a member of a MN militia group - you wouldn’t have paid any taxes ( well, they just don’t pay them!)


8 posted on 12/08/2012 4:09:08 AM PST by BCW (http://babylonscovertwar.com/index.html)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
We all exist, first and foremost as a revenue source for the state. It is through their beneficence alone that we are allowed to keep anything.

The land under your feet, the roof over your head, food on the table, clothes on your kids are all distant, secondary, irrelevant needs in comparison to the demands of the state.

Once the serfs learn this, it all makes sense.

9 posted on 12/08/2012 4:12:09 AM PST by Jacquerie ("How few were left who had seen the republic!" - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Are you a minority ? If you are just tell the state obama will pay

If not, just pay and send them a little extra to pay your white guilt penalty


10 posted on 12/08/2012 4:13:58 AM PST by Popman
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Sorry to hear it frbuddy, but IMHO you’re f***ed. Greedy armed robbers is the definition of government.


11 posted on 12/08/2012 4:14:12 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

We have the same thing in CT. They do have a form you can fill out to get a rebate. They make you jump through hoops cut you can still get it. Might ask about that in MN.


12 posted on 12/08/2012 4:17:18 AM PST by raybbr (People who still support Obama are either a Marxist or a moron.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

MA does the same thing, there might be an appeal process in cases where the car is a wreck or in bad shape.

You should be able to write off the sales tax, FWIW.


13 posted on 12/08/2012 4:18:37 AM PST by GP100
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To: Popman

52 year old White Male, who just wants to enjoy a nice GTO = Guilty. $#!}

The only thing I think I can do is go to auto shops and get quotes for things it could need and submit it.

I’m so pissed.

What a SCAM! I PAID Tax on what I purchased and have the proof!!


14 posted on 12/08/2012 4:22:45 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Same deal in Texas. Try going to a professional title service, they maybe able to get the car titled at what your paid. Ask 1st of of course.


15 posted on 12/08/2012 4:25:49 AM PST by Lockbox
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Same deal in Texas. Try going to a professional title service, they maybe able to get the car titled at what your paid. Ask 1st of of course.


16 posted on 12/08/2012 4:27:39 AM PST by Lockbox
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
The only thing I think I can do is go to auto shops and get quotes for things it could need and submit it.

Remove something expensive, then take it (or have it towed) in and get a quote to replace it. Make sure they quote you the price for an OEM part.

17 posted on 12/08/2012 4:28:38 AM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Go to a local friendly mechanic that will do a thorough assessment of every thing that is wrong with the car, that will add up to $5000 in repairs. Bring that into the DMV with you and go to the supervisor not the flunky at the counter. If that doesnt work put a call into your state reps office, so they can make a call. ( that is what they are there for) generally managers do not like calls coming in from the people that fund their department. If that doesnt work, find a friendly consumer media station in your area to do the story. Keep cranking it up. Then find where that person lives..... then....


18 posted on 12/08/2012 4:30:48 AM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Standard practice, my man, standard practice.


19 posted on 12/08/2012 4:32:57 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Moved from MA to Maryland a few years back ... excise taxed twice ... $900


20 posted on 12/08/2012 4:41:24 AM PST by xtinct (The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you..Be Strong Patriots!)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

This sounds like a fairly standard transaction. Each State will have its own book of values for vehicles. This is to prevent buyers from avoiding sales tax by constructing sham transactions at very low purchase prices.


21 posted on 12/08/2012 4:57:21 AM PST by dinodino
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

You screwed up... When buying out of state do not transfer the title until you get to your home state. Get the clear, signed, negotiable title in hand and process it when you get home.


22 posted on 12/08/2012 4:59:27 AM PST by El Laton Caliente (NRA Life Member & www.Gunsnet.net Moderator)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Yep - they started that crap in Kansas a few years back. Got a ton of flack, mainly because of parents “selling” cars to their kids for $1 - and then being hit with full value sales tax.


23 posted on 12/08/2012 4:59:42 AM PST by mykroar (BAD-ANON: One Game At A Time)
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To: xtinct

I’ve heard if you move to Ca. with a car you pay their tax on your already owned vehicle. (not sure it was true, sounds close to it now with this)


24 posted on 12/08/2012 5:00:04 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

This thread is useless without pictures.


25 posted on 12/08/2012 5:03:50 AM PST by Jeff Winston
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To: tacticalogic

LOVE the tag line.


26 posted on 12/08/2012 5:05:16 AM PST by EandH Dad (sleeping giants wake up REALLY grumpy)
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To: El Laton Caliente

What would make the seller comfortable with release of the car w/o the title transfer?? Can a seller let the car go with some other form proving he no longer owns it, you know to protect himself.. No one selling should just let the car go with just a signed title. ( I’ve been looking for a certain model, I may come across this)???


27 posted on 12/08/2012 5:05:44 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: WorksinKOP
I’ve heard if you move to Ca. with a car you pay their tax on your already owned vehicle. (not sure it was true, sounds close to it now with this)

I believe CA charges the difference in sales tax rates from the other state, but only if the car is brought into the state for registration within a certain number of days from the out-of-state purchase date.

Most states also have add a penalty if you don't register the car in their state within a certain number of days from when you bring it into the state. The trick is to remember that the date you "bring" the car into the state must be after the sales-tax add-on, but before the penalty date for late registration.

It can be done. I did it more than once when I purchased a car outside of California, and then moved it into the state.

28 posted on 12/08/2012 5:07:45 AM PST by RightField (one of the obstreperous citizens insisting on incorrect thinking - C. Krauthamer)
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To: RightField
Some day I will learn to proofread.

"have add" = "add"

29 posted on 12/08/2012 5:10:08 AM PST by RightField (one of the obstreperous citizens insisting on incorrect thinking - C. Krauthamer)
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To: RightField

Thanks, glad to have seen this post.. Not glad for R/Field.


30 posted on 12/08/2012 5:11:08 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: El Laton Caliente

Actually what was done in Ca. all had to be done there.


31 posted on 12/08/2012 5:11:36 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Mark Dayton is the governer here. He lives off trusts that are kept in South Dakota.


32 posted on 12/08/2012 5:14:35 AM PST by wesagain (The God (Elohim) of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the One True GOD.)
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To: WorksinKOP

Meant Livefree not R/field, sorry!


33 posted on 12/08/2012 5:16:15 AM PST by WorksinKOP
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To: Jeff Winston

34 posted on 12/08/2012 5:18:38 AM PST by Hoodat ("As for God, His way is perfect" - Psalm 18:30)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

You want to live in liberal Minnesota? If yes, then you pay. I left, because I’m right.


35 posted on 12/08/2012 5:23:36 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Jeff Winston

You’re so right........

Here’s my baby:

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/20703ea.jpg[/IMG]


36 posted on 12/08/2012 5:24:11 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Sorry to say that it’s a common practice - keeps parents from selling their grown kids a nice car for $1 and avoiding the taxes...Not saying it’s right, but it’s nothing new.


37 posted on 12/08/2012 5:28:26 AM PST by trebb (Allies no longer trust us. Enemies no longer fear us.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Ran into the same thing buying a vehicle in Ga to be ;licensed in SC. Ga wanted their $750 and SC wanted their $700. The tax law is clear, Ga tax is not collected for a vehicle leaving the state. When I called the state tax office to get the proper procedure, the gov’t drone lectured me on my obligation to pay taxes.

I canceled the sale with the dealer I was working with and paid cash to an individual for the car I wanted, done deal.


38 posted on 12/08/2012 5:29:02 AM PST by wrench
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
This was a YEAR ago and I do not want to give them more money if not necessary!

Ran it for a year with the CA plates?

39 posted on 12/08/2012 5:29:02 AM PST by Roccus
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001
Humm, let's try again - here is the car of subject: Guilty?? Image and video hosting by TinyPic
40 posted on 12/08/2012 5:29:28 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: Roccus

“Ran it for a year with the CA plates?”

Nope, they gave me Mn. plates & tabs... Hmpf.


41 posted on 12/08/2012 5:30:38 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: WorksinKOP
Same in WV. I paid that on my previously registered and taxed in NY car. I avoided paying NY tax on my new truck purchased in NY however, by using my WV address and just getting transport plates. Then paid ONLY the WV tax when I registered it here.
42 posted on 12/08/2012 5:36:27 AM PST by Roccus
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Then this extra charge is on a renewal?


43 posted on 12/08/2012 5:40:28 AM PST by Roccus
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To: Roccus

“Then this extra charge is on a renewal?”

Nope, on valuation. They (independent motor vehicle place, not state of Mn.) looks at the paperwork from Ca. They look up the value and charge me the difference. I went round-round with him and he understood... but he said we’ll submit it, but I the state of Mn. will not give you the Title. We tried, then the State said I needed to pay more.

I called the State and discussed it with them, but they say it’s in their statutes.

What bunk. Anything else you pay Tax on what you buy.

So, if we buy tires on sale, we pay Tax on the sale price, right?? We do not pay Tax on the full price, we pay Tax on the PURCHASE PRICE!!


44 posted on 12/08/2012 5:46:38 AM PST by LiveFreeOrDie2001
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Taxation is about revenue, not about fairness. (“Because you millionaires and billionaires, at some point, surely have enough money.”) In 1992 my father sold me a 1988 Crown Victoria with 8,000 miles on it for $3,500. The state would not license the car because I had bought it too cheaply. I had a cancelled check and they said that was no good. However, I asked them what the process was to verify the price and they grudgingly told me that I could have my father sign a sworn statement and that would do.

Ask them what the process is for verifying a price. Also, you might try a different office, one where the clerks are really, really busy.


45 posted on 12/08/2012 5:47:09 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Yes. Sounds right. PA does same thing.


46 posted on 12/08/2012 5:47:27 AM PST by Boxsford (God Is.)
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To: Jacquerie

Unfortunately serfs have learned to play along quietly.


47 posted on 12/08/2012 5:51:45 AM PST by Boxsford (God Is.)
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001; dinodino; mykroar
This sounds like a fairly standard transaction. Each State will have its own book of values for vehicles. This is to prevent buyers from avoiding sales tax by constructing sham transactions at very low purchase prices.

Got a ton of flack, mainly because of parents “selling” cars to their kids for $1 - and then being hit with full value sales tax.

And that is exactly why states started doing this and it is nothing new, this has been SOP for a long time. Most states base the sales tax on the fair market value and not on the actual sales price because too many people were playing the system by doing these $1 transactions between friends and relatives or buying and selling used cars for an on the books transaction for a lot less than the car was actually worth with the difference being paid under the table in cash or purchasing cars from states with no or much lower sales tax. FWIW, this falls under “Use Tax”.

I live in PA with a 6% sales tax. If I drive to DE a state that has no sales tax or to a state with a sales tax of less than 6%, and I purchase, clothes, furniture, household goods, electronics, alcohol, anything and bring those times and use them in my PA residence, technically when I file my PA income tax return, I’m supposed to claim those purchases and pay the Use Tax on the difference. The same applies to on-line purchases. Do most people do this? Probably not. Are you “supposed” to? Technically, yes. Most people do not claim or pay Use Tax because it’s not likely they will get caught for not doing so. Car purchases OTHO get you because of the necessity to register and license the car in your state of residence.

I understand that if you move from one state to another and your car was purchased more than six months previously, when you register the car in your new state, sales tax does not typically apply but it varies from state to state. Some, but not all states provide exemptions for active duty military personnel.

If your car was purchased recently (less than six months for example) or you purchased a car out of the state of your residence, you typically pay the difference in what you paid in sales tax with proof the tax was paid, to your previous state of residence and the sales tax of your new state of residence based on the FMV. This varies from state to state and some states will tax you regardless, but often you can file a form proving that sales tax was paid to the previous state, claim a credit for that against any sales tax levied in your new state and if necessary, file a form that substantiates that your car is well below their estimated “blue book” FMV.

But granted, this is a PITA.

48 posted on 12/08/2012 5:54:23 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

Sure they can do it.

The Government can do anything.

Our Government here in Maryland does the same thing.

It used to be you paid the tax on what was listed as the sales price. Now they go to a Blue Book Price and you pay the taxes on that.

You ask can they do it? Like I said the Government can do anything they like.

Ask Justice Roberts-—call it a tax and anything goes.


49 posted on 12/08/2012 5:55:16 AM PST by Venturer
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To: LiveFreeOrDie2001

OK, now I understand....but you’re still screwed.
Same thing here in WV. Had to pay extra to get a WV title on my 10 year old, NY registered and taxed car......because the milage was “too low”, they charged me sales tax on “valuation”.


50 posted on 12/08/2012 6:09:43 AM PST by Roccus
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