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Things that don't add up... (CT shooting)

Posted on 12/14/2012 11:24:47 PM PST by djf

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To: RegulatorCountry
“Abstinence doesn’t work.”

With some things, it works great.

It is not unusual that many people come to that conclusion after not having tried abstaining. Many of us came to that conclusion after watching others who tried not abstaining, and decided whatever they were doing wasn't for us.

Even 'bad examples' can serve a useful function in society.

151 posted on 12/15/2012 5:47:47 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe

And, as a side note, besides Fast and Furious, about 90 miles from me,is a city called Waco, Texas, if anyone is doubting the lefts ability to massacre kids for thier agenda.And Eric Holder was in that administration, too...


152 posted on 12/15/2012 5:50:23 AM PST by Quickgun (I came here screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I can go out that way if I have to)
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To: Duckdog
This adminatration sent guns to the drug cartells to kill people, so why would they not do it here?

This administration may have been running guns to terrorists through our emabassy in Libya and may have thrown our ambassador under the bus to cover, so why would they not do it here?

153 posted on 12/15/2012 5:50:55 AM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Ted Grant; arthurus
I don’t think it’s astonishing that he killed six adults and twenty children in a school. They were unarmed and probably froze. Shooting a room full of kindergarten children doesn’t require any notable skikl.

The kill-to-injury ratiơ suggested to me immediately that the shooter was a long time video game player. Those games train the player to be accurate hip shooters. A decade or so ago there was a spate of very young store robbers who shot clerks in the forehead and, after capture, protestations that, "I didn't mean to shoot!" because the killer had been video trained to shoot at the slightest movement. It was unthinking reaction.

I’ve read a few reports that says he was an avid gamer. I wouldn’t be surprised that he was into FPSG’s. I believe that even the military has used some of these types of games for training purposes.

In any case, it wouldn’t take any amount of great skill to walk up to cowering little children and shoot them in the head, which explains why the death toll was so high. FWIW, he shot his own mother in the face, probably did the same to those poor children.

154 posted on 12/15/2012 5:52:10 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Ted Grant
Shooting a room full of kindergarten children doesn’t require any notable skikl.

You're quite wrong, actually. In almost every slaughter (and there have been grade school slayings before), there's about a 2-to-1 ratio of injured-to-killed. (Columbine had 25 injured and 13 killed.) Even highly-trained LEO's barely crack 10-15% hits in a real-world shooting. Even if the kids were frozen in fear, hitting and killing with such... precision... is remarkable.

Either he held the gun to the head of every kid (and even a 6 year old won't sit still if he has just watched 13 classmates get thusly executed), or he was firing a LOT (which means he carried many, many clips, since he was using handguns. Since reports refer to a "pop-pop-pop" sound, I'd say that he was NOT walking up to each victim. Hence, he was shooting from a few feet away.

Further, shooting round-after-round GREATLY decreases the accuracy of your aim. Go to a gun range sometime. Try it. Then try having a friend stand behind you and simply COUNT, calmly, "one, two three"... just THAT tiny added pressure will make otherwise solid amateur shooters start trailing off by several inches. This 20 yr old unpracticed and untrained amateur had screaming kids, knew that police would be there soon, most likely SOME moving targets, AND he was shooting at a few feet away, AND was not taking time between shots to regain his aim point... and STILL he had more than 20 TIMES better of a kill ratio than almost any other similar massacre in modern history.

THAT is worth talking about.

155 posted on 12/15/2012 6:00:24 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: MinuteGal
It could very well be this disorder, or bi-polarism (manic/depressive), uncontrollable rage, drugs....or it could be he was just plain evil.

Bingo. There is part of the problem. In today's "progressive" society, the concept of good and evil, right and wrong, has been drummed out. It is no longer taught. Now liberals wail we need national gun control. No. We need self control. We need to teach that there is good and evil; right and wrong.

156 posted on 12/15/2012 6:00:34 AM PST by Flick Lives (We're going to be just like the old Soviet Union, but with free cell phones!)
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To: Smokin' Joe

It’s their slogan, they’ll certainly recognize it as such and it clearly hasn’t worked in relation to gun-free zones.


157 posted on 12/15/2012 6:04:07 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: Teacher317

I think the little children were huddled close together and terrified. Frozen.

I think you’re just wrong.


158 posted on 12/15/2012 6:06:47 AM PST by Ted Grant
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To: Charles Henrickson
"It’s the fog of war. Susan Rice will explain it all on the Sunday shows."

Yep.....she'll link the massacre to some online video, no doubt.

159 posted on 12/15/2012 6:08:03 AM PST by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: MD Expat in PA; Ted Grant; arthurus
The kill-to-injury ratiơ suggested to me immediately that the shooter was a long time video game player. Those games train the player to be accurate hip shooters.

Sorry... as a long-time video gamer (who held a world record for a few weeks once!), and a part-time shooter at the local gun range, I can tell you in VERY certain terms, video game talent has NOTHING to do with shooting accuracy... particularly after the first shot. Recoil, noise, pressure, etc are all INCREDIBLY impactful on your accuracy, and you get NONE of those at home on your couch. Then there's the hand-control. Squeezing instead of pulling... too much grip... actual FATIGUE (shooting for more than 5 min with a 45 or 9mm will tire you out a bit! 20-hour gaming marathons never prepared me for that!).

Add in autism or Asperger's, and ZERO firearms training... this was no expert, and yet his kill ratio was FAR higher than almost any other similar massacre in modern times. (Columbine has 25-to-13). This untrained kid's ratio of 3-to-26 is STUNNING, and needs a deeper look.

160 posted on 12/15/2012 6:09:54 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: Chipper

Hadn’t heard that, hope it’s true.

Might take away some of the left’s basis for outlawing mags over 10 rounds.


161 posted on 12/15/2012 6:10:24 AM PST by Arlis (.)
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America

The father was murdered earlier in New Jersey. By whom and why is a good question. I read somewhere that the father was a partner at GE Capital for Ernst & Young, but I don’t know that for a fact.

We leaned by mid-day Thursday that H3ll Clinton might not testify on Benghazi next week.


162 posted on 12/15/2012 6:14:57 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: combat_boots
The father was murdered earlier in New Jersey. By whom and why is a good question.

No, the father was not murdered earlier in New Jersey. He and Adam's older brother were both questioned by the police.

163 posted on 12/15/2012 6:17:54 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Quickgun
And, I’d really like to know who that person in the woods was.

Especially since he yells out to the press as he is taken away "I didn't do it".

You didn't do what???

What is the "it" that he is saying that he didn't do???

And how did he know about the "it" that he didn't do???

Very suspicious.

164 posted on 12/15/2012 6:21:41 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Ted Grant
I think the little children were huddled close together and terrified. Frozen. I think you’re just wrong.

I doubt you're thinking. If they were huddled, then how did he hit the ones in the middle? How did he get KILL shots on almost EVERY person he targeted, when most similar massacres did NOT end that way? If he had the .223 that he left in the car, I'd give him better odds of beating a 1-to-1 kill ratio... but he had handguns, terrified targets, screaming, knew the cops were going to be there soon, adults as well as kids at target, had to reload at least ten times (for 100 shots), and as you say, kids could have been huddled... and he topped a ONE-TO-NINE ratio

The kill ratio IS worth looking into. It is out of whack with the usual results of these kinds of incidents. Beslan (elementary school hostage-taking) had 1100 victims, but "only" 380 killed. Columbine was 21-to-13. China's knife-attack had 22 injured, ZERO dead (and they were also tiny, frozen, fragile grade-schoolers).

165 posted on 12/15/2012 6:23:08 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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There was a timeline started someplace that said the school doors lock automatically at 9:30. By 9:41, the first 911 call came through.


166 posted on 12/15/2012 6:25:52 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: MHT

Maybe he went to elementary there


167 posted on 12/15/2012 6:28:45 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: SeminoleCounty

It’s one thing to kill parents. It’s another to get in a car and go kill little kids and their teachers.

I agree. This doesn’t add up.

And yes, either - or both - H3ll and 0bama/Jarrett would be on board with this event to avoid questions on the treason of Benghazi, sending troops and Patriots to Turkey, issuing some totalitarian EOs, and/or grabbing guns.


168 posted on 12/15/2012 6:31:29 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: combat_boots
I thought the news said that the father was alive, and learned of the incident when asked by a reporter in his driveway.

I hate the MSM

169 posted on 12/15/2012 6:32:19 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
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To: Blackirish; SeminoleCounty

You have the wrong guy. You’re thinking of Richard Jewell and he died years ago —


170 posted on 12/15/2012 6:35:14 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: hope

The media gives them instant fame.

Media hype, 24/7

Names go down in history

infamy = fame


171 posted on 12/15/2012 6:35:29 AM PST by shalom aleichem
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To: Charles Henrickson
Susan Rice will explain it all on the Sunday shows. and Barack Obama will take decisive action.
172 posted on 12/15/2012 6:35:52 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: djf

I heard Megyn Kelly on Fox say around noon that the Administration had come out and stated this had nothing to do with islamic jihadism. I remember thinking that was awfully quick.


173 posted on 12/15/2012 6:36:46 AM PST by bergmeid (FUBO)
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To: djf

It smells like another custom made exploitable crisis to me.


174 posted on 12/15/2012 6:39:54 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: onyx
I'd have to be seriously committed to conspiritorial thought processes to think that tragedies that don't make sense are part of a plan ... so I'll admit here and now ... I am influenced to believe in a major conspiracy against America and I believe the evil that is destroying good (D'Tocqueville), IS an entity that has a plan and minions to carry it out.


We have to wait, but we can suspect and surmise that this mass murder of innocents is designed to disarm America.

Individual disarmament doesn't seem to work, so maybe, there is already in place a large enough brownshirt type force to attempt to disarm America.

I know, I know, .. there are places that can not be approached and touched ... easily.

If there IS a large enough force in place, maybe your friendly neaghborhood LEO will suffer anguish ... as he arrests you.

175 posted on 12/15/2012 6:40:44 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: combat_boots
It’s another to get in a car and go kill little kids and their teachers.

Unless you were programed to do so.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/931227/archive_016338.htm

176 posted on 12/15/2012 6:41:23 AM PST by Sirius Lee (RE SP - Republicans, from Mitt Romney ..to Karl Rove... are said to be concerned she will win.")
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To: nolongerademocrat
I wonder if there is any evidence that this kid ever fired any of these guns before yesterday.

Kids with Aspergers are physically clumsy and since he would have had to have reloaded, just how would an Asperger kid do it and do it so proficiently without practice.

Earwitness on the scene said over 100 shots were fired in pretty quick succession. So he would have had to have reloaded pretty quickly.

177 posted on 12/15/2012 6:43:09 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Arlis

The .223 wasn’t used, it was in the car.


178 posted on 12/15/2012 6:43:37 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: arthurus

I’ve been playing video games of all types since the late 70’s and your theory is misguided.


179 posted on 12/15/2012 6:44:40 AM PST by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: Teacher317

Oh. Alive? Really.

Do Adam and his brother have the same father?


180 posted on 12/15/2012 6:46:22 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Uncle Chip

exactly


181 posted on 12/15/2012 6:46:35 AM PST by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: Teacher317

A point on LEOs: typically, Law Enforcement Officers have OK marksmanship, but do not get a lot of practice. Cops I know get two range days a year, and perhaps 30 rounds per day. High marksmanship requires CONSTANT practice. . . at least weekly. . .


182 posted on 12/15/2012 6:49:44 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: bergmeid

So, if the shooting starts by 9:40 am, and 0bama reads words by noon, what is the time the shooting lasted? How long was the guy there?


183 posted on 12/15/2012 6:50:10 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Northern Yankee

“We’re suppose to turn off the lights, lock the classroom door and huddled with the students on the floor.”

Bend over, put your head between your legs, and kiss your X@#! goodbye..... That’s our school plan too...


184 posted on 12/15/2012 6:55:39 AM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Charles Henrickson
It’s the fog of war. Susan Rice will explain it all on the Sunday shows.

In the old days confused early reports would be corrected by the morning newspaper... or - as you commented, the Sunday talk shows. It was better before...

185 posted on 12/15/2012 7:04:11 AM PST by GOPJ (Detroit should be renamed 'Michael Mooresville'...)
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To: Uncle Chip

He’s a 20yo, he apparently grew up with multiple guns in the house, and this appears to have been premeditated.


186 posted on 12/15/2012 7:05:18 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: exit82
I am astounded that this 20 year old, mentally dysfunctional, could achieve such a high kill ratio.

The Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania had a lot of similarities. One of them was the alleged perp, who used an "assault weapon", who was mentally disabled, and who had a phenomenally high kill ratio, too.

That incident was used to deprive Australians of a tremendous number of firearms, which were destroyed. Port Arthur, Wiki

another take

187 posted on 12/15/2012 7:05:26 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: 9YearLurker

Hi Lurk:
Sociopaths and psychopaths are the same. You may be referring to psychotics who are truly demented.
There are a lot of sociopaths out there. They often function OK in a group setting and are often charming and witty. However, if you get too close to one, one on one, RUN don’t walk in the opposite direction.
Prayers for the victims.


188 posted on 12/15/2012 7:08:02 AM PST by BIV (typical white person)
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To: djf

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/12/14/who-really-killed-the-connecticut-children/

Also, why aren’t the wounded released? Are they being “coached” on what they saw or didn’t see? Maybe have some psychologists “working with them?”

And if the two brothers had not seen each other for two years, how did Adam have Ryan’s I.D. on him? How do we know for sure that Ryan was not the guy in the woods?


189 posted on 12/15/2012 7:12:37 AM PST by Wisconsinlady ("Never give the devil a ride; he will want to take over the driving.")
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To: djf

Public schools are institutions run by administrators. They are raising our children and that is the truth. Children are only with their parents a few hours a day when they are tired and spent from school.

In addition, public schools have systematically stripped the American culture from the institutions and adopted a politically correct, authortarian insanity to govern “inferior” community of children and families. This action has been taken by “professionals” in education, government and entertainment throughout the society.

America has always had it’s maladjusted individuals. HOwever, we have never systematically targeted normal childen as deviant for their parent’s morals and discernment and boy for their normal male nature. We never targeted boys for shame because they are males.

White males are targeted with p.c. feminist doctrines that hates them and their nature. White males are targeted with drugs (and sexual grooming) to make them more like the nature of girls and homosexuals. Why would a subruban middle class community school have shrinks on staff? How many of the students were classifed as abnormal and put on drugs to reshape their behavior and personalities to fit liberal government overlords?

Those drugs were behind Columbine and I bet they are involved here, too. A lot of the young white men we see lost today, were put on these drugs which stunt normal personality and spiritual development or maturity. The drugs suppress emotion so a kid will act like a passive p.c. robot in the school factory. When they get out of the institutions they were raised in and shaped by, they are totally dysfunctional and labeled “personality disordered.”

No matter what other lessons people take out of this, learn that the public schools are twisted and that goes for white middle class school institutions too. We are abusive and insane to continue forcing children into the factory meat grinder at this point and there is no way to repair the damage done to those instituions and the teaching profession by cultural cleansers and p.c mindbots.

There is no reform that can rescue society from the p.c. public school mentality and practices. They are up-side-down and in-side-out; abnormal like Soviet society would produce. Marxists, who hate America’s Christian culture (”white-bread” social interaction, families, marriage, morals, ethics, art inspiration), America and Americans remade them in oppposite. The opposite is dead and evil. It is marxist doctrinaire; a back of upsidedown lies.


190 posted on 12/15/2012 7:13:51 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: combat_boots

IIRC the police said that they had officers on the scene 3-5 minutes after it started.


191 posted on 12/15/2012 7:13:58 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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To: Quickgun
And Eric Holder was in that administration, too...

Yep, Deputy AG under Janet Reno.

192 posted on 12/15/2012 7:14:28 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Uncle Chip

He might have been one of the millions of kids diagnosed with something just to get a check! I know a few hundred of those myself nothing wrong with them just put on an act to get what is called around here a Crazy Check!


193 posted on 12/15/2012 7:17:15 AM PST by Lees Swrd ("Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe and preserve order in the world as well")
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To: BIV

They haven’t been used as synonyms for decades. They describe two different things, believed to have two different origins:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ambigamy/201107/psychopath-cowboys-sociopath-herds-new-theory-how-evil-happens

http://depressiond.com/sociopath-vs-psychopath-differences-between-psychopathic-sociopathic-personality-disorders/


194 posted on 12/15/2012 7:17:59 AM PST by 9YearLurker
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To: djf

We are getting different stories and misinformation.

These are misdirection and cover stories.

Grabbing guns via the UN Small Arms Treaty is next on 0ba/Jarrett’s agenda, with internal TSA “are your papers in order” travel inspections coming.


195 posted on 12/15/2012 7:19:22 AM PST by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Errant

Many Asperger people are very intelligent. The meticulous nature of the attack isn’t that surprising, considering. It will be interesting if any information is released about Lanza’s disability and how it was treated...


196 posted on 12/15/2012 7:26:19 AM PST by rintense
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To: Teacher317
The Port Arthur Massacre had similarities: IQ of alleged shooter (confessed, not tried) was 66. Allegedly killed 35, 20 in the cafe, 19 of which were head shots supposedly fired from the hip, few surviving wounded. Many discrepancies exist as to testimony and verifiable fact, and the records were sealed.

The result is certain, however, Australia destroyed over 400,000 firearms in a mandated "buy back" program.

197 posted on 12/15/2012 7:28:27 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: onyx
You are right, onyx...I posted this on another thread.

When I was younger; G-d was welcome in the schools, abortion wasn't a topic of discussion, and students had GUNS in their school lockers. No school shootings to speak of.

Now we ban guns from schools; we boot G-d out of school, and abortion is discussed and practiced everywhere. Now people are shooting up schools, not to mention malls and other targets of opportunity.

Notice any differences?

198 posted on 12/15/2012 7:28:51 AM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Teacher317

Shoot one kud, he falls over, exposing another child.

These are kids that go up to about your hip. Small, light bodies.

This doesn’t stretch credulity much.

We just disagree.


199 posted on 12/15/2012 7:32:50 AM PST by Ted Grant
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To: rintense

Seems to be true:

http://news.yahoo.com/conn-gunman-recalled-intelligent-remote-103816291.html


200 posted on 12/15/2012 7:35:03 AM PST by Uncle Chip
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