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Vanity for LEOs.

Posted on 12/15/2012 7:33:09 AM PST by Vermont Lt

We just had a discussion in our house. We were wondering why the police need to do this exhaustive investigation of the crime scene when most everyone agrees the killer has been found, and he is dead--so he is not going to be prosecuted?

What are they looking for, and would it be better to simply get this circus over as soon as possible.

Does anyone have any explanation for the layman?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: newtown; vanity
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I am sure there are other folks out there is similar questions.
1 posted on 12/15/2012 7:33:12 AM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: Vermont Lt

The more they understand, the better they can fix security.

(not an expert)


2 posted on 12/15/2012 7:36:19 AM PST by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Vermont Lt

Probably the same reason they had to arrest the shooter’s brother even though he was two states away and couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with it. It’s all for our own good, somehow.


3 posted on 12/15/2012 7:36:59 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Vermont Lt

I think this is a Standard Operating Procedure. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt and if they miss something they get raked through the fire. There are probably going to be some big lawsuits here and lots of money involved so they want to be able to cover anything in court.
The Police are not here to protect you but to enforce the law.


4 posted on 12/15/2012 7:38:28 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

If they didn’t do an exhaustive investigation, it would become an instant conspiracy theory about what they’re trying to cover up.


5 posted on 12/15/2012 7:39:23 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Vermont Lt

they need to provide as many answers to what happened so that we have as many facts as possible. This will help provide a basis to analyze correctly what went wrong and to refute bad “solutions” to the problem.


6 posted on 12/15/2012 7:39:57 AM PST by frogjerk (Obama Claus is coming to town!)
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To: Vermont Lt

That was my first thought once it was known the murderer was dead and all the victims identified. Also, why so many armed away type guys walking around for hours and hours after the event was over.

Lots of overtime to be made?


7 posted on 12/15/2012 7:39:57 AM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Vermont Lt

Perp didn’t have legal access to handguns.
Where did they come from?

Why did he do this?
There will never be a satisfactory explanation, but mental health issues need better understanding and treatment.

He left written material.
What does it reveal?

School security? How do you improve that?


8 posted on 12/15/2012 7:40:21 AM PST by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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To: Vermont Lt

Plethora of propaganda presented for the progressive presstitutes and polidiots to pander with IMHO ....

Personal polite presumption on my part....

Stay safe ...


9 posted on 12/15/2012 7:40:35 AM PST by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: G Larry

I know reports say he was wearing a mask and I’d like to get a look at that as well as any written messages he may have left.


10 posted on 12/15/2012 7:43:06 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Vermont Lt

I personally feel they are finding the answers to who/what/where/when/possibly why/how. Plus, they have to make sure no one else was involved. I’ve never been a victim of this kind of horror; however, If so... I would want to know the answers.


11 posted on 12/15/2012 7:43:50 AM PST by momtothree
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To: Vermont Lt
IMHO

Almost every LEO is, in absolute harsh reality, actually a uniformed crime scene investigator. The odds of a law enforcement officer actually being at the scene of a crime while it is happening is extremely small. The locations where they are most likely to prevent a crime is at their homes, in their patrol cars, and at their station.

The above reality check is why crimes actually go down as more and more citizens arm themselves and go for their concealed carry permits.

Unfortunately, what we are seeing right now are LOEs and the justice system doing the job they know and do best - documenting what happened.

Now the social workers will get in the game by asking what made him do this? As if an answer for this individual can be applied to other individuals and our society as a whole.

Shortly the politicians will get into the act, finishing the three ring circus, by passing more ineffective laws trying to keep guns out of the hands of ....(fill in the blank with their newest politically correct target group).

Bitter - YOU BETCHA. I am bitter over all of the tomorrows that were so suddenly lost yesterday and all the tears that will be shed this Christmas and for years to come. And this came in spite of the community's best efforts to prevent it.

12 posted on 12/15/2012 7:44:04 AM PST by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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To: Vermont Lt

People want answers -— are you going to provide them? My guess is no.


13 posted on 12/15/2012 7:44:44 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

being two states away doesn’t mean he wasnt involved . taking him away in handcuffs was a bit much


14 posted on 12/15/2012 7:46:26 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (the mature Christian is almost impossible to offend)
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To: SeaHawkFan
Lots of overtime to be made?

__________________________________

Exactly. All those cops saw 20 murdered children as nothing but a chance to make a few bucks.

Where do you people come from?

15 posted on 12/15/2012 7:47:10 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Probably the same reason they had to arrest the shooter’s brother even though he was two states away and couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with it.

Ryan was not arrested. He was questioned, which makes perfect sense since the perp was carrying his ID.

He certainly could have had "something to do with it." Ever heard of conspiracy? Only people present at the scene of a crime can be involved?

16 posted on 12/15/2012 7:47:20 AM PST by Sherman Logan (Brought to you by one of the pale penis people.)
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To: G Larry
Perp didn’t have legal access to handguns. Where did they come from?

He lived with his mother, who legally owned the guns.

He killed mom and took the guns off to school.

17 posted on 12/15/2012 7:48:49 AM PST by Sherman Logan (Brought to you by one of the pale penis people.)
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To: G Larry

school security? The town or citizenry can hire security officers, or 1 or 2 school employees can be allowed to be trained how to operate a handgun. Those poor kids and teachers had zero ability to defend themselves. Security measures like locked doors dont stop a nut with a pistol or hand grenade. I remember Columbine, or at least if I remember correctly, the police sat outside the school and waited for the shooting to stop before they entered the school. Yesterday the police didnt hesitate to enter the school to try to stop the disaster


18 posted on 12/15/2012 7:55:48 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (the mature Christian is almost impossible to offend)
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To: Nip

>> And this came in spite of the community’s best efforts to prevent it.

Like having a more secure school entry system?
Like training and arming teachers?
Like clamping down on the media circus that will turn little Mr. Nut Boy into a hero to all the whack jobs in the country?
Like not confining identified nuts to institutions?


19 posted on 12/15/2012 7:56:39 AM PST by QBFimi (When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Civil Lawsuits!


20 posted on 12/15/2012 7:56:44 AM PST by Second Amendment First ("Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..." - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: Vermont Lt

In all states, a non-natural death, must be investigated as to cause. When a non-natural death is deemed a homicide, the killing of a human being, the death then becomes a possible crime and must be investigated. The investigation hopefully will name a perpetrator and any others involved. Those others may have supplied the instrument of the crime; were involved in a conspiracy or other aspects of the incident.

We had many cases, where there was only one victim and one apparent suspect. Further work revealed other aspects of the crime, most usually conspiracies.

Additionally, though not a law enforcement issue, there will be law suits coming and a police investigation should reveal all aspects of the culpability of those involved.


21 posted on 12/15/2012 7:56:46 AM PST by barney10
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To: Nip

>> And this came in spite of the community’s best efforts to prevent it.

Like having a more secure school entry system?
Like training and arming teachers?
Like clamping down on the media circus that will turn little Mr. Nut Boy into a hero to all the whack jobs in the country?
Like not confining identified nuts to institutions?


22 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:05 AM PST by QBFimi (When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Too many bureaucrats depend on getting in on the action so their paychecks are justified. Politicians will pop up anywhere there are reporters. There is no excuse for bodies lying around for a day when the shooter is dead.

Fox News’s old doctor says it’s necessary in case there are civil suits brought against the school district, so that could be the necessary evil involved.


23 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:30 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: Vermont Lt

A thorough investigation of the crime scene, vs a casual assessment, will yield more, solid information. Casual overview assumes a lot which may or may not be true.


24 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:43 AM PST by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Nip
I am bitter over all of the tomorrows that were so suddenly lost yesterday and all the tears that will be shed this Christmas and for years to come

Perfectly said...besides the 28 dead, another couple of hundred folks will never live without the sadness and pain

That is a lot of damage.

Evil lives and we are pawns with our own will and folks even here like to reject that...yet another reminder.

25 posted on 12/15/2012 7:57:45 AM PST by wardaddy (wanna know how my kin felt during Reconstruction in Mississippi, you fixin to find out firsthand)
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To: Vermont Lt

1. “...(M)ost everyone agrees...” in and of itself is not the best reason to do or not do something.

2. “...he is dead—so he is not going to be prosecuted...” could be said of Lee Harvey Oswald at the time. Yet there is still controversy and the belief on the part of some that everyone involved was not caught. In the case at hand, we don’t yet know if others were or were not involved.

3. The more you know about “it”, the better your chances of “fixing it”.


26 posted on 12/15/2012 7:59:53 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Yes...lots of questions...

Especially why they left the corpses of the kids in the classroom for nearly a whole day. Only in recent hour or so they finally removed all bodies.

And, these days, whenever anyone plays the “Conspiracy Theory” card in situations like these (some on here already have)....that just sends the radar up full-blast...there is something going on


27 posted on 12/15/2012 8:00:51 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Seems that the ones who understand little about the economy are economists)
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To: Vermont Lt
This predictable display of local police dressed up like soldiers, in large groups, strutting before the cameras AFTER the shooting stops, is part of the same security show we see with TSA in our faces at the airports. Doesn't do a damn bit of good except to lay the groundwork for more tax dollars to pay for more government.

When are the morons in this country that espouse more gun laws (but won't give up their private security details)going to admit that being personally responsible for your own safety is the best way to prevent crime in the first place?

28 posted on 12/15/2012 8:03:40 AM PST by patriotsblood
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To: wardaddy

>> ... besides the 28 dead, another couple of hundred folks will never live without the sadness and pain

Way, way more than that. You’re a first responder - Polce/Fire/EMT - and have to wade through the horror of 20 limp dead children in a pool of blood. You go home to family and neighbors. They ask “What was it like?” Your one word answer: “Bad.” You stuff the rest. There’s no “delete” button in your brain.


29 posted on 12/15/2012 8:09:03 AM PST by QBFimi (When gunpowder speaks, beasts listen.)
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To: Vermont Lt
It is all about CYA for the jurisdictions involved.

You can be sure that the sharks are circling this tragedy before the blood drys in preparation for filing civil lawsuits against any jurisdiction or persons remotely connected to this that has $$$ deep pockets.

30 posted on 12/15/2012 8:10:15 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: SeaHawkFan

“...armed away type guys walking around for hours and hours after the event was over.”

You know for a fact that the event was over? That seems suspicious.

What if the opinion that the “event” was over was incorrect, they sent the armed men home, and the next stage of the “event” was initiated by the perpetrators? Would you be saying the armed men should have stayed?


31 posted on 12/15/2012 8:12:25 AM PST by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: Vermont Lt

They have to be sure no one else was involved. They already know how the shooter illegally obtained his weapons.

The Feds will also want to have a MO and personality profile on the shooter so they can classify another group of Americans as domestic “terrorists” and spy on them and deny their rights.


32 posted on 12/15/2012 8:12:44 AM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Vermont Lt

Data- a study of the shooting scene and piecing together exactly what happened can aid investigators in future situations where they do have a perp captured.


33 posted on 12/15/2012 8:19:59 AM PST by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: QBFimi

Bump!

My question: How many people with concealed carry permits were in the building at the time of the shooting? How many of them were actually carrying? If not, why not?

This tragedy was like shooting fish in a barrel. I wonder how much fear for his personal safety the shooter had as he shot and killed innocent little kids?


34 posted on 12/15/2012 8:22:38 AM PST by upchuck (America's at an awkward stage. Too late to work within the system, too early to shoot the bastards.)
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To: SeminoleCounty

Some of those bodies may not have been easy to identify. Young children don’t usually carry around an ID.


35 posted on 12/15/2012 8:25:43 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Vermont Lt

Just saw the sheriff tv press conference.

he said “we want to understand more importantly WHY he did what he did”

What job is it of the police to find out WHY?

They are supposed to investigate, arrest, catalog, control evidence, etc. When they rush to judgement (by trying for instance to find the WHY) they are usurping the DA/Judicial authority.

This is why you get the “railroading” of people. Because the police show up and “decide” WHO and WHY and then they set about collecting facts to shore up the HOW.

THis is why we have bad law enforcement - they don’t want to do their job, they want to take on the job of the DA and the judiciary.


36 posted on 12/15/2012 8:27:28 AM PST by BereanBrain
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To: Vermont Lt

I understand the need for law enforcement to dissect every detail in these cases. I would however prefer the jackal media sluts be kept far away. Interviewing children, postulating on all, feigning sorrow while they shove a camera and a microphone into suffering persons faces, asking the numb questions of officials. Shame on that tired industry.


37 posted on 12/15/2012 8:27:36 AM PST by BigLittle (Let us not expect the spiritual spring until we first pass through the spiritual winter.)
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To: amom

.


38 posted on 12/15/2012 8:27:57 AM PST by amom
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To: Nip

A well thought out and articulate reply to this good question. Thank you for your post!


39 posted on 12/15/2012 8:32:57 AM PST by amom
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To: G Larry

“School security? How do you improve that?”

Good question. This won’t be the last school attack.

Within twenty years (I’ll be gone), expect to see schools constructed like prisons, surrounded by impenetrable fences, walls, armed guards, etc.


40 posted on 12/15/2012 8:34:14 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: BigLittle

As former LEO I will add “threat if lawsuits” to the equation. In a situation like this thousands of self-serving attorneys will be casting their business cards in front of the victims families with millions of dollars in their eyes ready to file suit against the school for neglect in protecting their students (as if you can really foresee or prepare for an event like this) and against the police departments for failing to fully investigate the incident and bring all those to justice and thereby protecting the students from future harm. Yes it can get downright irrational and silly in the courtrooms but if they spin it right and the jury buys their concoctions they walk away with millions themselves.


41 posted on 12/15/2012 8:37:21 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: smokingfrog

Some of those bodies may not have been easy to identify. Young children don’t usually carry around an ID.


So, you let them sit at the crime scene and decompose...yeah right

They should have been removed to a morgue, or even a temp. morgue on site (heck they did that for the Titanic 1 century ago)...and let the next of kin ID there.


42 posted on 12/15/2012 8:38:14 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Seems that the ones who understand little about the economy are economists)
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To: QBFimi
Way, way more than that. You’re a first responder - Polce/Fire/EMT - and have to wade through the horror of 20 limp dead children in a pool of blood. You go home to family and neighbors. They ask “What was it like?” Your one word answer: “Bad.” You stuff the rest. There’s no “delete” button in your brain.

Lesser horrors have had many a good man or woman awaken in a cold sweat.

43 posted on 12/15/2012 8:39:06 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: mountainlion

BINGO !

“There are probably going to be some big lawsuits here and lots of money involved so they want to be able to cover anything in court.”

This is an upscale area near NYC. The default mode is to sue when something bad happens. Expect a number of the parents to be solicited by trial lawyers with a view to sue the city and school for alleged lack of security. Plus, the security co. that recently installed some upgrades to that school’s security system. Also, the estate of the dead mom of the shooter due to lack of securing her firearms when such a troubled youth lived with her. The lawyers look for the deep pocket where ever it may be.


44 posted on 12/15/2012 8:48:48 AM PST by RicocheT (Eat the rich only if you're certain it's your last meal)
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To: Vermont Lt

A complete investigation is necessary in order to piece together as many facts as possible regarding the incident.


45 posted on 12/15/2012 8:48:48 AM PST by Wiggins
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To: Vermont Lt

Because at the time of the actual event, all of the facts are not known.

There will be lawsuits and evidence will be needed.

LEO really needs to analyze what happened to try and prevent it happening somewhere else

And, sadly, to make sure each child is correctly identified. Depending upon the injuries the victims sustained, that might not be as easy as we’d like to think.


46 posted on 12/15/2012 8:49:31 AM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: jsanders2001
How about lawsuits against those who create gun free victim zones making sure that no teacher or other staff member can defend themselves or the children?
47 posted on 12/15/2012 8:54:06 AM PST by Truth29
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To: upchuck

>>How many people with concealed carry permits were in the building at the time of the shooting? How many of them were actually carrying? If not, why not?

Schools are gun-free zones in Connecticut, even if you have a concealed weapons permit, unless the school gives you express permission or you are a LEO. Doubtful many schools around here would give regular teachers such permission.

“Chapter 952, Sec. 53a-217b. Possession of A Weapon on School Grounds: Class D Felony.”
(a) A person is guilty of possession of a weapon on school grounds when, knowing that such person is not licensed or privileged to do so, such person possesses a firearm or deadly weapon, as defined in section 53a-3, (1) in or on the real property comprising a public or private elementary or secondary school, or (2) at a school-sponsored activity as defined in subsection (h) of section 10-233a.

(b) The provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall not apply to the otherwise lawful possession of a firearm (1) by a person for use in a program approved by school officials in or on such school property or at such school-sponsored activity, (2) by a person in accordance with an agreement entered into between school officials and such person or such person’s employer, (3) by a peace officer, as defined in subdivision (9) of section 53a-3, while engaged in the performance of such peace officer’s official duties, or (4) by a person while traversing such school property for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting or for other lawful purposes, provided such firearm is not loaded and the entry on such school property is permitted by the local or regional board of education.

(c) Possession of a weapon on school grounds is a class D felony.


48 posted on 12/15/2012 8:56:09 AM PST by Betis70 ("Leading from Behind" gets your Ambassador killed)
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To: SeminoleCounty
They should have been removed to a morgue, or even a temp. morgue on site (heck they did that for the Titanic 1 century ago)...and let the next of kin ID there.

Next of kin ID could be real bad. Kids probably had multiple gunshot wounds. Would the family really want to see little Johnny with half his head missing??

(harsh, yes, but that's this reality)

49 posted on 12/15/2012 8:58:25 AM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: SeminoleCounty
Your analogy to the Titanic is rediculous. That was not a crime scene. Seems like the killer liked to shoot people in the face. Are you going to have grieving parents look at a bunch of bodies with their heads. blown-off if you don’t have to?
50 posted on 12/15/2012 8:59:19 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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