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Does Objective truth exist? If so, why?
unknown | Jonathan Sarfati

Posted on 12/15/2012 8:18:27 PM PST by Zeneta

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To: Zeneta
...it is the logical conclusion.

Yes, it is.

Imagine that you are given the goal of creating the complete works of William Shakespeare.

Using coincidence in chaos theory you get infinite monkeys pounding on infinite typewriters for infinite time and you will create those works.

Or you could use a Divine God of order creating and developing the family that would contain William Shakespeare.

The logic requires only one question:

In chaos where would you get monkeys and typewriters, let alone an infinite supply of them and time.

To suggest infinite time, the universe would have to last forever, and entropy suggests the opposite

41 posted on 12/15/2012 10:53:46 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Flycatcher

“The 49ers have red and gold uniforms. Please help me understand the objective truth of that color scheme.”

Photons having wavelengths of 700 and 600 nanometers would be incident upon your blind eyeballs (even though you wouldn’t be able to detect them).


42 posted on 12/15/2012 10:55:55 PM PST by haroldeveryman
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To: Zeneta
Do you know this objectively or subjectively ?

First, subjectively, and second objectively :-)

But seriously, it makes sense, does it not? What else do we have to go on? And then when we analyze the mind objectively we conclude, yes, the mind has nothing else to go on.

43 posted on 12/15/2012 10:58:11 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: haroldeveryman

Colors are entirely subjective. If you make a short study of colorimetry, you will find that color standards are based on a standard SUBJECT, which is a statistical composite of experimental human SUBJECTs who report their experience of equivalent colors with variable spectral compostion.


44 posted on 12/15/2012 11:04:03 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: Zeneta; onedoug
Without God there is no objective truth. Can't be said enough.

Would you two be gracious enough to let me wedge a word in there?

"Without accepting God, there is no objective truth.

45 posted on 12/15/2012 11:04:20 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Navy Patriot

I’m with you and more.

I find it very curious that modern day scientist invoke “Dark matter” and “Dark energy” to explain how we can even exist. Dark, of course means unknown.

Hey, that’s cool since we can incorporate some multiverse theory that provides an unprovable out.


46 posted on 12/15/2012 11:04:47 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: Flycatcher
But the only thing standing in the way of pure understanding is language.

I don't see it quite that way. Standing in the way - yes, there are schools of thought that feel that the intellect is a hinderance or worse to knowing the ultimate truth (or truths - depending on your belief) - I don't think so myself.

Pure understanding - what is it? I think really that is knowing or experiencing... which comes back to that being an non-intellectual, therefore non-language - experience.

47 posted on 12/15/2012 11:14:34 PM PST by expat1000
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To: Navy Patriot
Imagine that you are given the goal of creating the complete works of William Shakespeare.

I feel compelled to relate the old Stanley Myron Handelman bit on this subject. He reports that he had heard that a roomful of monkeys with typewriters would eventually accomplish this feat, so he decided to try, and put the monkeys in a room with typewriters. After a while he decided to see how they were doing, and looked in. To his chagrin, "... they weren't typing! They were just messing around in there!"

48 posted on 12/15/2012 11:15:48 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: Flycatcher
Without accepting God, there is no objective truth

I fundamentally disagree with the above statement.

Objective truth exists with or without God. That is what makes it objective.

I found God reluctantly, and had no choice in the matter.

A simple, well not so simple, result of logical conclusion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMwn_hnoS5Y

49 posted on 12/15/2012 11:21:58 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: dr_lew

You need to gain a greater understanding math and probabilities.


50 posted on 12/15/2012 11:25:47 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: expat1000
I think we agree at some level. See my Post #4 and Post #45.

Sorry, but my smartphone is now almost dead.

All the best!

51 posted on 12/15/2012 11:27:35 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Flycatcher

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill
I could see the city light
Wind was blowing, time stood still
Eagle flew out of the night
He was something to observe
Came in close, I heard a voice
Standing stretching every nerve
Had to listen had no choice
I did not believe the information
I just had to trust imagination
My heart going boom boom boom
“Son,” he said “Grab your things,
I’ve come to take you home.”

To keep in silence I resigned
My friends would think I was a nut
Turning water into wine
Open doors would soon be shut
So I went from day to day
Tho’ my life was in a rut
“Till I thought of what I’d say
Which connection I should cut
I was feeling part of the scenery
I walked right out of the machinery
My heart going boom boom boom
“Hey” he said “Grab your things
I’ve come to take you home.”
(Back home.)

When illusion spin her net
I’m never where I want to be
And liberty she pirouette
When I think that I am free
Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see
No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me
Today I don’t need a replacement
I’ll tell them what the smile on my face meant
My heart going boom boom boom
“Hey” I said “You can keep my things,
They’ve come to take me home.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMwn_hnoS5Y


52 posted on 12/15/2012 11:31:24 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: dr_lew
LOL, of course I was using that to try to show how much chaos would have to occur compared to how little order was necessary to create higher development.

Moving to the science of logic, Occam's Razor predicts that the most simple explanation is the most likely one.

That's probably why ya can't get the monkeys to type.

53 posted on 12/15/2012 11:34:27 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Occam’s Razor, applied to neo-darwinian theory would also predict that we should all be dead.


54 posted on 12/15/2012 11:39:50 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: Zeneta
You need to gain a greater understanding math and probabilities.

I despair of surpassing Boltzmann, I must confess.

55 posted on 12/15/2012 11:44:33 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew

Don’t despair, Boltzmann still holds a challenge for all that venture.

So, can man ever know everything?

Ever ?


56 posted on 12/15/2012 11:51:10 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: Flycatcher

>>All the best!

Thanks - to you too! And a Merry Christmas and great New Year on top of that. Oh, and I will read those posts later.


57 posted on 12/15/2012 11:52:24 PM PST by expat1000
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To: hinckley buzzard

Truth is never more than a consequence away.


58 posted on 12/16/2012 12:00:15 AM PST by ResponseAbility (The truth of liberalism is the stupid can feel smart, the lazy entitled, and the immoral unashamed)
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To: Zeneta
Don’t despair, Boltzmann still holds a challenge for all that venture.

Hmm.

So, can man ever know everything?

Obviously not.

Ever ?

What did I just say ?

59 posted on 12/16/2012 12:09:53 AM PST by dr_lew
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To: Zeneta
Does objective truth exist?

Looks like just a rewording of Pilate's question to Jesus, "What is truth?"

But then Pilate (like most of us) wouldn't recognize the truth if he were standing right next to him.

60 posted on 12/16/2012 7:10:40 AM PST by newheart (The greatest trick the left ever pulled was convincing the world it was not a religion.)
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