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Does Objective truth exist? If so, why?
unknown | Jonathan Sarfati

Posted on 12/15/2012 8:18:27 PM PST by Zeneta

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To: expat1000
I think we agree at some level. See my Post #4 and Post #45.

Sorry, but my smartphone is now almost dead.

All the best!

51 posted on 12/15/2012 11:27:35 PM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Flycatcher

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill
I could see the city light
Wind was blowing, time stood still
Eagle flew out of the night
He was something to observe
Came in close, I heard a voice
Standing stretching every nerve
Had to listen had no choice
I did not believe the information
I just had to trust imagination
My heart going boom boom boom
“Son,” he said “Grab your things,
I’ve come to take you home.”

To keep in silence I resigned
My friends would think I was a nut
Turning water into wine
Open doors would soon be shut
So I went from day to day
Tho’ my life was in a rut
“Till I thought of what I’d say
Which connection I should cut
I was feeling part of the scenery
I walked right out of the machinery
My heart going boom boom boom
“Hey” he said “Grab your things
I’ve come to take you home.”
(Back home.)

When illusion spin her net
I’m never where I want to be
And liberty she pirouette
When I think that I am free
Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see
No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me
Today I don’t need a replacement
I’ll tell them what the smile on my face meant
My heart going boom boom boom
“Hey” I said “You can keep my things,
They’ve come to take me home.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMwn_hnoS5Y


52 posted on 12/15/2012 11:31:24 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: dr_lew
LOL, of course I was using that to try to show how much chaos would have to occur compared to how little order was necessary to create higher development.

Moving to the science of logic, Occam's Razor predicts that the most simple explanation is the most likely one.

That's probably why ya can't get the monkeys to type.

53 posted on 12/15/2012 11:34:27 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Occam’s Razor, applied to neo-darwinian theory would also predict that we should all be dead.


54 posted on 12/15/2012 11:39:50 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: Zeneta
You need to gain a greater understanding math and probabilities.

I despair of surpassing Boltzmann, I must confess.

55 posted on 12/15/2012 11:44:33 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: dr_lew

Don’t despair, Boltzmann still holds a challenge for all that venture.

So, can man ever know everything?

Ever ?


56 posted on 12/15/2012 11:51:10 PM PST by Zeneta (Why are so many people searching for something that has already found us ?)
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To: Flycatcher

>>All the best!

Thanks - to you too! And a Merry Christmas and great New Year on top of that. Oh, and I will read those posts later.


57 posted on 12/15/2012 11:52:24 PM PST by expat1000
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To: hinckley buzzard

Truth is never more than a consequence away.


58 posted on 12/16/2012 12:00:15 AM PST by ResponseAbility (The truth of liberalism is the stupid can feel smart, the lazy entitled, and the immoral unashamed)
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To: Zeneta
Don’t despair, Boltzmann still holds a challenge for all that venture.

Hmm.

So, can man ever know everything?

Obviously not.

Ever ?

What did I just say ?

59 posted on 12/16/2012 12:09:53 AM PST by dr_lew
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To: Zeneta
Does objective truth exist?

Looks like just a rewording of Pilate's question to Jesus, "What is truth?"

But then Pilate (like most of us) wouldn't recognize the truth if he were standing right next to him.

60 posted on 12/16/2012 7:10:40 AM PST by newheart (The greatest trick the left ever pulled was convincing the world it was not a religion.)
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To: Zeneta

Objective truth can be witnessed in the natural consequences of our actions. This is the beginning of the knowledge that God exists and that something governs nature that goes beyond ourselves.


61 posted on 12/16/2012 7:12:50 AM PST by CityCenter (Compromise is the welcome mat to deception.)
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To: Zeneta

Do ‘words’ have meaning?


62 posted on 12/16/2012 8:04:50 AM PST by thatjoeguy (Every law passed is someone forcing their morals on someone else.)
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To: Zeneta
Occam’s Razor, applied to neo-darwinian theory would also predict that we should all be dead.

That would be true, and it would predict that more simple life forms would be more likely to survive.

Observation gives evidence that more simple life forms as a group are, indeed gaining in numbers, therefore,

Because we are NOT dead, logic suggests that something is acting on Darwin's theory, rendering it innaccurate when applied to humans. I think we are getting a little help from a Friend

63 posted on 12/16/2012 9:09:25 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

The reality of truths like the value of pi and such mathematical truths points, using Occam’s Razor, to a designer. Odd how some want to dismiss that truth so easily discerned.


64 posted on 12/16/2012 9:12:14 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Zeneta

Yes...we know, outside of our many and confusing thoughts, in a wordless way, right from wrong. That IS objective truth. There is evil that uses word thoughts to try and confuse, motivate, and mimics that telepathic, Godly insight. IT is what tries to convince humans that there is no truth. Because then , if we doubt and believe that lie, IT can control us through our then enlarged need for pleasurable escapes.

I think a better question,, is what is the nature of evil and how does it work in our minds. Truth , really is obvious...until we fall to evil in our minds.


65 posted on 12/16/2012 9:17:26 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: MHGinTN
Odd how some want to dismiss that truth so easily discerned.

Yes, it is a human weakness that we want our view validated, it is easier than self examination to discern if our view complies with Natural Law or refutes it.

Self examination can give us a conception of how much we don't know, and if some of what we do know, ain't so.

66 posted on 12/16/2012 9:42:11 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: fabian
Yes...we know, outside of our many and confusing thoughts, in a wordless way, right from wrong. That IS objective truth.

Not to be too argumentative, but we don't really know right from wrong. We know only that right and wrong exist, not he exact content of right and wrong. I know that if you hurt me or take my stuff that is wrong. But it is very subjective. Even if I say it is wrong for someone to hurt you or take your stuff I am merely viewing your situation through my subjective lens.

My understanding goes back to the story of Adam and Eve. Consider it as objective truth or not, it is still revealing. When they decided they were smarter than God and ate the forbidden fruit, God said they had become like him, knowing good and evil. I'm pretty sure his next line was, "Good luck with that." Then he tossed them out of the garden to fend for themselves. But not being God, they only had their subjectivity to rely on—and a finite and weak subjectivity at that.

67 posted on 12/16/2012 11:04:23 AM PST by newheart (The greatest trick the left ever pulled was convincing the world it was not a religion.)
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To: newheart

Gravity is a great equalizer for subjectivity. It requires no language, no words and no logic. It just requires you to believe subjectively that you can climb to a high place, jump and defy gravity. The objective truth of the matter is that you will go splat no matter what you subjectively believe because on Gaia gravity matters.


68 posted on 12/16/2012 2:16:40 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: newheart

No..that insight..light that shows is simple right and wrong is true for all. That is objective. And God did not abandon Adam and Eve after the fall, they were subject to evil, yes, but they also knew of God and did not become totally evil. Now there were the Cain types that just gave over totally to the pride self, yes. But there was some choice there.


69 posted on 12/16/2012 3:30:21 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: newheart

if you want to see that objective reality clearly..go to www.copingstrategiescd.com.....amazing site.


70 posted on 12/16/2012 3:31:47 PM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: jwalsh07
Gravity is a great equalizer for subjectivity.

Our perception of gravity is subjective and it is relative. Gaia is an fiction. The truth is a person.

71 posted on 12/16/2012 7:12:36 PM PST by newheart (The greatest trick the left ever pulled was convincing the world it was not a religion.)
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