Skip to comments.The Trial of Bernhard Goetz
Posted on 12/22/2012 10:42:48 AM PST by Kid Shelleen
The Saturday afternoon before Christmas in 1984, on a New York City subway car making its run downtown, two black teenagers approached Bernhard Goetz. One of the teens said to the slightly built blond man, "Give me five dollars." Seconds later, Goetz fired five shots from his Smith & Wesson revolver and four young men were injured--one with a severed spinal cord. After the train came to a quick stop, Goetz jumped to the tracks below and disappeared into the darkness of the subway tunnel. City newspapers quickly dubbed the gunman "the subway vigilante." During the early 1980s, New York City experienced unprecedented rates of crime. Murders during the decade averaged almost 2,000 a year and, in the city's increasingly dangerous subway system, thirty-eight crimes a day, on average, were reported. Citizens did not feel safe. It is not surprising, therefore, when the city's newspapers ran stories on the December 22 shooting on the IRT express, the shooter was widely praised for his actions: "Finally," many a New Yorker said, "someone has had the courage to stand up to these thugs --SNIP-- Three years earlier, Goetz had been mugged by three African-American young men and he had a permanently damaged knee to show for it. He resolved not to be a victim again and regularly carried a .38 revolver in his waistband.
(Excerpt) Read more at law2.umkc.edu ...
I remember when this happened - I thought it was FIVE thugs who approcahed him.
And they asked if he had 5 dollars, and he said “yeah I’ve got 5 dollars for each of you”
At the time he was hailed as a hero to many, and the subways became a lot safer afterwards- not as a DIRECT result, but it certainly lit the spark
They were going to mug him, and he saved his own ass with A GUN~! (the horror)
One of the perps is permanently paralyzed so he has had a nice long time to think about that 5 dollars he wanted
more than 2 muggers, wikipedia says 4. I recall that several of the other yutes continued their life of crime and made headlines for doing so.
...and he remains so as far as I'm concerned. It's always praiseworthy when thugs get a dose of hot lead. Good guys being armed and taking decisive action against evildoers makes for a safe, happy and free society: "An armed society is a polite society."
We have become inured to violence. When the government began to control our thought it seemed harmless or caused little reflection.. Since it was gradual and on going, it became almost unnoticed. The very idea ... ‘thought control.’ We are surrounded by it. Via the medias daily!
Are we to be willing robots essentially?
Wake up WORLD!
Activities since the incident
In March 1985, soon after being released from the hospital for the treatment of his gunshot wound, James Ramseur falsely reported to police that two men hired by Goetz had kidnapped and attempted to kill him, but was not charged in this hoax. In May 1985, Ramseur held the gun while an associate raped, sodomized and robbed a pregnant eighteen-year-old woman on the rooftop of the Bronx building where he lived, and in 1986 was sentenced to 8⅓ to 25 years in prison. According to the New York State Department of Corrections inmate search site, Ramseur served his sentence and was released in July, 2010. Ramseur was found dead of a drug overdose, in an apparent suicide, in a Bronx, New York motel room on December 22, 2011, the 27th anniversary of the incident on the number 2 train.
Barry Allen committed two robberies after the shooting, one of them a 1986 chain snatching in the elevator of the building where he lived. The second arrest, in May, 1991, brought him a sentence of three and a half to seven years for probation violation and third degree robbery. He was released on parole in December, 1995.
After a number of minor arrests for petty offenses, Canty was ordered to undergo an 18-month drug treatment program at a rehabilitation center, which he completed in 1989. He was later charged with assault, robbery, and resisting arrest in an altercation with his common-law wife in August, 1996, but was not convicted and did not serve time.
I applaud Goetz. He did what every person has a right to do: resist attackers with deadly force if necessary. This right in inherent in our nature and no government can take it away or bestow it upon us.
If four black youts approached you in the subway and demanded money, this would be the ONLY way to defend yourself without risk losing everything, including wallet and credit cards, and probably getting beaten up or killed just as a little extra.
So, either he gave them everything, or he shot all of them on the spot before they could gang up on him.
Not much other choice. And if he’d hesitated, they’d have found the gun, and probably used it on him for practice.
I used to take the subway in those days, to get to work in the Village. There were muggers everywhere, before Rudy cleaned things up.
I remember one of my co-workers, who commuted from New Jersey, told me that he kept a $20 bill in his sock, at the bottom of his foot, so if he got mugged and lost his wallet and cash, he’d still have enough to get home with. We had this conversation after someone was robbed, shot, and killed on the sidewalk just outside the office.
And one raped and sodomized a woman on a rooftop.
I’ll never forget the black people in my office cheering Bernie the day after the attack. Then after people like crazy-man Jimmy Breslin et al went after him, the cheering stopped and Bernie became a pariah. Bad times in NYC.
The biggest mistake Goetz ever did was turn himself in. I remember that clear as day saying what a sucker, the liberals are going to crucify him and that’s exactly what they did. Jail time and a $43 million judgement against him.
They had his discription and knew who he was and were going to get him anyway. The biggest mistake he made was talking to the police without an attorney.
Epic Beard Man
Prior to the second trial, the DA floated the idea of trying him for civil rights violation against the wolf pack. I remember turning to my wife and wondering when it became a civil right to mug people.
Oh, and by the way, apropos of absolutely nothing, a plurality of the jury that acquitted him was black.
I grew up in New York during the 1980’s, so I remember this very well. Bernie did what he had to do- if he didn’t, he would have become just another statistic. Of course, even back then I had some people calling me a “racist” for being a white guy with that opinion. My response was “If he shot four white criminals who were trying to mug him, I’d feel the same way”. And I would have.
Back in the day, when I visited NYC from Connecticut, it was standard operating procedure to split the majority of your cash amongst your person - both socks, a couple of pockets, and $30 in your wallet - just enough to keep the thugs from getting angry at the lack of a good haul.
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