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When the ice melts, the Earth spews fire
Space Daily ^ | 24 December, 2012 | Staff Writers

Posted on 12/24/2012 9:37:21 AM PST by Errant

It has long been known that volcanic activity can cause short-term variations in climate. Now, researchers at the GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel (Germany), together with colleagues from Harvard University (Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA) have found evidence that the reverse process also occurs: Climate affects volcanic activity. Their study is now online in the international journal "Geology".

In 1991, it was a disaster for the villages nearby the erupting Philippine volcano Pinatubo. But the effects were felt even as far away as Europe. The volcano threw up many tons of ash and other particles into the atmosphere causing less sunlight than usual to reach the Earth's surface. For the first few years after the eruption, global temperatures dropped by half a degree. In general, volcanic eruptions can have a strong short-term impact on climate.

Conversely, the idea that climate may also affect volcanic eruptions on a global scale and over long periods of time is completely new. Researchers at GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel (Germany) and Harvard University in Massachusetts (USA) have now found strong evidence for this relationship from major volcanic eruptions around the Pacific Ocean over the past 1 million years. They have presented their results in the latest issue of the international journal "Geology".

The basic evidence for the discovery came from the work of the Collaborative Research Centre "Fluids and Volatiles in Subduction Zones (SFB 574). For more than ten years the project has been extensively exploring volcanoes of Central America.

"Among others pieces of evidence, we have observations of ash layers in the seabed and have reconstructed the history of volcanic eruptions for the past 460,000 years," says GEOMAR volcanologist Dr Steffen Kutterolf, who has been with SFB 574 since its founding. Particular patterns started to appear.

"There were periods when we found significantly more large eruptions than in others" says Kutterolf, the lead author of the Geology article.After comparing these patterns with the climate history, there was an amazing match. The periods of high volcanic activity followed fast, global temperature increases and associated rapid ice melting.

To expand the scope of the discoveries, Dr Kutterolf and his colleagues studied other cores from the entire Pacific region. These cores had been collected as part of the International Integrated Ocean Drilling Program (IODP) and its predecessor programmes. They record more than a million years of the Earth's history.

"In fact, we found the same pattern from these cores as in Central America" says geophysicist Dr Marion Jegen from GEOMAR, who also participated in the recent study.

Together with colleagues at Harvard University, the geologists and geophysicists searched for a possible explanation. They found it with the help of geological computer models. "In times of global warming, the glaciers are melting on the continents relatively quickly.

At the same time the sea level rises. The weight on the continents decreases, while the weight on the oceanic tectonic plates increases. Thus, the stress changes within in the earth to open more routes for ascending magma" says Dr Jegen.

The rate of global cooling at the end of the warm phases is much slower, so there are less dramatic stress changes during these times. "If you follow the natural climate cycles, we are currently at the end of a really warm phase.

Therefore, things are volcanically quieter now. The impact from man-made warming is still unclear based on our current understanding" says Dr Kutterolf. The next step is to investigate shorter-term historical variations to better understand implications for the present day.


TOPICS: Reference; Science; Weather
KEYWORDS: catastrophism; climate; globalwarming; ice; volcanoes
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While I have little doubt that this group is wrong about what causes increased volcanic activity, I completely agree with their theory/findings that increased volcanic activity IS connected to the beginning of ice ages (large and small).
1 posted on 12/24/2012 9:37:33 AM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

Doesn’t volcanic activity have a fifteen year cycle?.


2 posted on 12/24/2012 9:42:53 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: winoneforthegipper; machogirl; The Cajun; All

3 posted on 12/24/2012 9:44:23 AM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

Global warming causes sunspots, too.


4 posted on 12/24/2012 9:47:07 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: Errant

Wrong,wrong,wrong. You can’t have global warming occurring millions of years ago without man-made industrial evil pollution.

Everybody with a brain knows that.


5 posted on 12/24/2012 9:47:40 AM PST by Cyman
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To: Errant

Maybe the volcano gods would be appeased if we threw Al Gore into an erupting caldera. With like, a big slingshot or trebuchet or something.


6 posted on 12/24/2012 9:47:56 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Pennies and Nickels will NO LONGER be Minted as of 1/1/13 - Tim Geithner, US Treasury Sect)
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To: Errant

Yeah this one is quite a stretch.


7 posted on 12/24/2012 9:48:01 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Errant

Thank you! Same to you and yours. :)


8 posted on 12/24/2012 9:49:40 AM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, (it's back). 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Vaduz

You may be thinking of the 11 year solar cycle?


9 posted on 12/24/2012 9:50:19 AM PST by Errant
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

One heck of a grease fire would ensue, but maybe it’d flame out. Go for it.


10 posted on 12/24/2012 9:52:43 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

I suggest we allow Tipper the honor of pulling the lever! Lol!


11 posted on 12/24/2012 9:55:02 AM PST by Errant
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To: cripplecreek

“Yeah this one is quite a stretch.”

Indeed, a ‘stretch’ worthy of Plastic Man. Unfortunately, this article was not authored by comic book writer.

“Correlation is not causation”.


12 posted on 12/24/2012 9:55:14 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."..)
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To: Errant
Conversely, the idea that climate may also affect volcanic eruptions on a global scale and over long periods of time is completely new.

Uh huh.

"There were periods when we found significantly more large eruptions than in others" says Kutterolf, the lead author of the Geology article.After comparing these patterns with the climate history, there was an amazing match. The periods of high volcanic activity followed fast, global temperature increases and associated rapid ice melting.

Maybe all that magma in proximity to the surface had something to do with the ice melting...

Cart before the horse to squish it into an agenda, methinks.

13 posted on 12/24/2012 9:56:39 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Maybe all that magma in proximity to the surface had something to do with the ice melting...

Especially so as to arctic ice melt.

14 posted on 12/24/2012 9:59:16 AM PST by Errant
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To: cripplecreek

Yep, the never ending battle of dogma vs. science...


15 posted on 12/24/2012 10:01:12 AM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

I can buy the possibility of ice over a volcano melting and causing an eruption due to the pressure release but in this case they’re blaming melting ice flowing into the oceans causing a pressure increase on the seafloor.

The weight of ice melting would be spread over the entire global seafloor and I just can’t see it being enough cause eruptions.


16 posted on 12/24/2012 10:10:48 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Errant

If correct and I understand the hypothesis, you would expect to find the once glacier covered laurentian shield area of Canada covered in volcanos. Most volcanos are found at the edges of continental plates.

I understand that there is an active volcano under several thousand feet of ice somewhere in Antarctica.


17 posted on 12/24/2012 10:10:52 AM PST by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: Errant

“I completely agree with their theory/findings that increased volcanic activity IS connected to the beginning of ice ages”

And hopefully this will not happen for some time. (As are the Russians.)

Thanks for posting.


18 posted on 12/24/2012 10:13:36 AM PST by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: Errant
Didn't the Manya predict a mushroom like cloud, could be they missed it by a few days /s


19 posted on 12/24/2012 10:18:56 AM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: Errant

I’d guess I’d be worried if I bought the propaganda about the ice caps melting.


20 posted on 12/24/2012 10:20:01 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: GladesGuru

Plastic Man was my favorite comic book character when I was a kid! Even modeled my stage name after his nickname of “Plas.”


21 posted on 12/24/2012 10:22:44 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: cripplecreek
The weight of ice melting would be spread over the entire global seafloor and I just can’t see it being enough cause eruptions.

Google "Isostatic Equalibrium." The Great Lakes region where you live is still slowly rising to achieve equalibrium after being relieved the weight of huge glaciers from the last ice age. Meanwhile the weight of the meltwater has been transferred to the Atlantic. That disequalibirum will, over time, affect tectonic plate boundaries.

Volcanic activity is caused by subduction of oceanic plates under continental plates. There are many forces affecting plate subduction, important among them the rate at which mid-oceanic ridges supply new plate material. But I think it's reasonable to investigate the relationship of isostatic movement at plate boundaries to volcanic activity.

22 posted on 12/24/2012 10:38:45 AM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: Cyber Liberty
I wouldn't doubt that the arctic ice cap is experiencing a loss of ice but imagine it's caused by an increase in underwater volcanic activity.

On the other end, I've seen numerous reports saying the the Antarctic cap is seeing a record increase in ice buildup.

23 posted on 12/24/2012 11:50:57 AM PST by Errant
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To: cripplecreek; Cyber Liberty; Bernard Marx
My suggestion would be for scientists to look for some periodic changes within the earth's interior for the cause. The source of which could be a number of things such as thermal buildup, precession irregularities, rogue tidal influences, rotational balance, and etc.
24 posted on 12/24/2012 11:59:53 AM PST by Errant
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission
And hopefully this will not happen for some time. (As are the Russians.

Looks to me like the start of a major ice-age cycle is past due and if you look at historic CO2 spikes from ice-core samples, we're seeing a similar drawn out spike now that also occurred 400K years ago.

Just sayin'...

:)

25 posted on 12/24/2012 12:05:44 PM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

Merry Christmas my friend and keep an eye to the sky tomorrow and not for Santa either!....lol


26 posted on 12/24/2012 1:23:15 PM PST by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: winoneforthegipper

LOL! Thanks partner! Been hearing some ominous reports for sure... Hope you and yours have a great Christmas too!!


27 posted on 12/24/2012 1:34:27 PM PST by Errant
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; ...

Thanks Errant.
It has long been known that volcanic activity can cause short-term variations in climate. Now, researchers at the GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Kiel (Germany), together with colleagues from Harvard University (Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA) have found evidence that the reverse process also occurs: Climate affects volcanic activity.
Global warming shills alert.


28 posted on 12/24/2012 6:54:17 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: Errant; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; alrea; ...
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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29 posted on 12/24/2012 8:51:39 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Errant; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; alrea; ...
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

Schlafly: Ready for UN Taxes?

Russians Freezing to Death during Global Warming Period

Canada Leaving Kyoto Protocol, Reuters Blames Bush

http://bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/12/16/more-single-more-childless-america/yQr34P1AlxcqzegScpWEwJ/story.html

Keystone XL critics now calling for more indepth climate change study

Meet your new regulator: A Big Green law school

Global Warming on Free Republic

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30 posted on 12/24/2012 8:52:42 PM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Merry Christmas!)
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To: piroque

Well, that’s clearly a broccoli cloud, so maybe they were talking about something different.


31 posted on 12/24/2012 8:57:20 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: Errant

“There were periods when we found significantly more large eruptions than in others” says Kutterolf, the lead author of the Geology article.After comparing these patterns with the climate history, there was an amazing match. The periods of high volcanic activity followed fast, global temperature increases and associated rapid ice melting.
..............
so this would explain why temperature rises cause carbon dioxide rise in the past. the extra carbon dioxide comes from volcanos

not a bad match. too bad most climatologists won’t notice that the arrow of causality is heat causes carbon dioxide rise rather than carbon dioxide causes heat rise.


32 posted on 12/24/2012 10:07:03 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: Errant

Nope quakes have a cycle too.


33 posted on 12/25/2012 6:00:40 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: ckilmer
so this would explain why temperature rises cause carbon dioxide rise in the past. the extra
carbon dioxide comes from volcanos

Makes sense to me. That and that underwater volcanoes, which occur in much greater numbers
than above sea level, also contribute to the heating of the oceans, causing even more CO2 to be released into the atmosphere.


34 posted on 12/25/2012 7:50:40 AM PST by Errant
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To: Vaduz
It's my belief also, that earthquakes occur in cycles. I put together a little chart based on USGS data (below), that I think demonstrates that earthquakes do occur in cycles. I'm not too sure about the time frame, though 15 years works somewhat in the chart, based on a VERY tiny amount of data.

Your initial question concerned volcanic cycles. It's obvious, however, the two are certainly related. The question is which one drives the other; or, what is the amount of synergy taking place?


35 posted on 12/25/2012 8:07:34 AM PST by Errant
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To: Vaduz
I think I see an 11 year cycle in the earthquake chart above, that seems to line up with this solar cycle chart below?


36 posted on 12/25/2012 8:18:53 AM PST by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper

#36...?


37 posted on 12/25/2012 8:20:42 AM PST by Errant
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To: Errant

awesome graph....interesting!

Spend your weekend combining them...lol


38 posted on 12/25/2012 3:46:39 PM PST by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: Errant; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; Smokin' Joe; Bernard Marx; cripplecreek; SunkenCiv; All

First of all this is not a brand new theory, I recently read a whole book on the volcanic activity in Europe as the Eurasian ice sheet melted at the end of the last ice age. Incidentally, the Pinatubo eruption had nothing to do with ice. However, it is very clear that the increased vulcanism in Europe at the end of the last ice age was probably triggered by the uplift of the land as the ice melted, rather than being connected to the beginning of an ice age. The Lacher Zee (sp?, can’t find my book) volcano in Germany, and volcanic activity in France occurred at that time, and there were also some very massive eruptions of Vesuvius, far larger than in historic times. These areas are on the north side of the plate for the movement of Africa.

There are no recent volcanic areas in the center of continental North America, however, there are some really old volcanic deposits (north and east?) near Yellowknife in Canada with Kimberlite deposits where diamonds have been discovered and I believe are being exploited now.


39 posted on 12/25/2012 10:36:51 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin
Ever hear of the Yellowstone Caldera?

While there may be some effect from isostatic rebound, there is a chicken/egg question. Volcanic activity will be preceded by higher heat flow at the surface. Once started, ash deposits will decrease the albedo of existing ice/snow fields and accelerate melting, provided atmospherically suspended ash is not significant enough to retard insolation. Certainly, melting will accompany volcanic activity. To say melting owuld cause volcanic activity is a far stretch when there is the entire Canadian Shield in isostatic rebound from the last Ice Age and recent non-margin volcanic activity is pretty small.

The kimberlites in AB, for example, are 45 to 75 million years old, whereas the Caldera activity in Yellowstone is a few hundred thousand years old, and the Long Valley Caldera only a few hundred.

If melting ice caused volcanoes, (instead of the other way around) Saskatchewan, Manitoba, North Dakota, and Minnesota should be prime for eruptions--the ice sheets here were well over a kilometer thick, and in many places three times that.

Where melting ice and volcanoes are associated at all, my money is on heat flow from the magma melting the ice, not the melting ice causing volcanism.

40 posted on 12/26/2012 5:52:46 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: gleeaikin

There is actual volcanic debris along I-40 in the interior of California also. I saw it myself.


41 posted on 12/26/2012 11:59:05 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks; Smokin' Joe; All

If you are talking about my statement about the center of North America, I was not talking about the interior of California, or the Yellowstone Caldera. Having spent time in Iowa, my concept of center of North America is from around there and northward. Yellowstone Caldera is in the Rocky Mountains which is entirely different from the center of our country and Canada which in eons past was a great shallow inland sea, not home to volcanic activity. Also, I am very aware of Yellowstone as my father wrote a fiction book about a major eruption of Yellowstone in our own times.


42 posted on 12/26/2012 1:32:37 PM PST by gleeaikin
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To: Errant; machogirl

Any ideas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9LF3Pvk0Q4&feature=player_embedded#!


43 posted on 12/26/2012 9:13:12 PM PST by winoneforthegipper ("If you can't ride two horses at once, you probably shouldn't be in the circus" - SP)
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To: winoneforthegipper

If not manipulated in any way, (I am at a loss, although the time of year is summer ?) or Planet X’s Sun making a visit. That dude in Australia keeps saying it’s coming, Nibiru is coming. Extreme refraction? I’m just blabbering.


44 posted on 12/26/2012 9:19:42 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, (it's back). 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: winoneforthegipper
Cool! Not sure, but maybe a roll cloud formation created by a frontal passage, leaving a tunnel through which the sun's rays could pass unimpeded?

Very windy and looks kinda like a front where the rays originate. I'm a little confused by what I'm seeing after he swings the camera about 180 though; looks like the setting sun, but maybe a cloud on the opposite horizon being lit up by the rays?

Awesome!

45 posted on 12/26/2012 9:32:31 PM PST by Errant
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To: winoneforthegipper
Spend your weekend combining them...lol

Ha! Don't tempt me! lol

I re-eyeballed the earthquake chart. Looks like maybe an eight year cycle, if one could be established at all with such a small amount of data available...

46 posted on 12/26/2012 9:35:43 PM PST by Errant
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To: gleeaikin
There is the possibility of a diamond pipe in south central Arkansas, as diamonds are found there. There is also a lot of quartz and hot springs in the area.

About 100 miles north of there is another strange area with possible volcanic origins and this area has been in the news as the location of recent minor earthquake swarms.

47 posted on 12/26/2012 9:41:52 PM PST by Errant
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To: gleeaikin; winoneforthegipper; machogirl; The Cajun; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; Smokin' Joe; ...
IMHO, it’s a stretch to contribute current and minor ice melt to an increase in volcanic activity. Perhaps there is a better case immediately after the last ice age melt, as the chart below seems to indicate. Something occurred soon after the climate warmed about 14,500 years ago, only to be driven right back into another short term cool period.

My pet theory for a very long time has been that tidal forces from the sun/moon/earth orbits act on the Earth’s core, which is believed to be mostly solid iron the size of the moon, causing frictional heating that builds up over a period of time. Another effect from this, which I won’t go into much now, is a kind of pumping action occurs (I don’t buy the conventional convection plume theory).

So after a period of time, say every 12K years, this excess heat eventually causes a weakening of the lithosphere and pressure waves from the core’s pumping action opens fissures through which extra molten material finds its way through to the surface in the form of what we call plumes and divergent tectonic plate boundary zones. IMO, this is the simplest explanation and makes the most sense.

Scientists believe frictional heating from tidal force occurs with other bodies in our solar system, such as the moon IO orbiting the planet Jupiter, and a number of icy moons in the solar system with cryovolcanoes.

Active Volcanoes of Our Solar System - Activity Occurs on Earth and on the Moons of a Few Planets

In my Errant opinion, this is strong evidence that a similar process (except the Earth's solid central core is one of the main elements here), is what's occurring within the Earth’s interior and may explain what drives the Earth back into ice ages, even during warm periods (from the increased ash/SO2/moisture released into the atmosphere from increased volcanic activity).

Keeping in mind this is a complex world, there are other contributing factors in climatic change such as asteroid/comet impacts, solar output variations, changes in the Earth's orbit and inclination through precession, and etc.

48 posted on 12/26/2012 11:20:26 PM PST by Errant
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To: Errant; SunkenCiv; All

It has been pretty thoroughly discussed at Catastrophism that the Younger Dryas was probably caused by asteroid/comet strikes along the Canadian border and perhaps in northern Europe. A well researched book by Firestone, et al. lays out this theory in detail. SC: Give him the reference please.

Once you have checked this out, see how it would affect your theorizing. I am inclined to think that Ice Ages are cause by megavolcanos and large asteroids/comets.


49 posted on 12/27/2012 12:00:23 AM PST by gleeaikin
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To: Smokin' Joe; SunkenCiv; Errant; All

The Long Valley caldera activity was over 700,000 year ago, and the last major Yellowstone was about 640,000. However, Yellowstone has been blowing its top with major excess for 16 or 18 million years, as the magma plume has advanced to the east under the continent. National Geographic had a detailed article on this not too long ago with excellent maps and drawings.


50 posted on 12/27/2012 12:06:14 AM PST by gleeaikin
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